jonlaing
170 posts
Jan 02, 2011
3:47 PM
|
Hey guys, I was working on the new Suzuki (key of C) I got for xmas, and am still having some trouble with some stubborn reeds. I'm not really sure what the proper protocol is for dealing with them. For instance, my 6 hole: The overblow is a bit tough to pop up, even though it's gapped and embossed pretty tight. The draw 6 seems to bee a little unresponsive, even though it is also gapped and embossed.
I was having trouble getting the upper register to respond at all for a little bit.. not sure why. When I got the whole thing back together they started responding again... weird.
What do you do with an entirely unresponsive reed. I had a few where I would do on pass with my embossing tool, not very hard, and then it would be entirely unresponsive. Not that dying goose sound you get when you put a burr in the slot, just nothing. But air was going through the slot, I could feel it, so it wasn't gapped too close, and opening up the gap didn't solve the problem. Any ideas?
Lastly, is there a way to test if your overblows are going to squeal before putting the whole damn thing back together and trying it out? This harp especially, the overblows tend to squeal after about a second of sustaining (got it mostly worked out of the 6). I know you have to emboss near the rivet to get the squeal out, I just wish I didn't have to put the whole thing back together to find out that I need to take it apart again. I don't have enough time in my day to fiddle with these things unfortunately, and not enough money to just have a professional do it.
Thanks ahead of time.
|
arzajac
415 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:02 PM
|
If your 6 overblow is unresponsive as well as the 6 bend - that follows since they are both the same reed.
As for the other issues, are you overtightening your screws?
----------
|
jim
627 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:02 PM
|
1)unresponsiveness sometimes comes from overembossing near the rivet. Sometimes it's a bad reed profile.
2)your 6draw is responsible for the bad overblow on the 6th hole
3)nope, you can't check anything until you assemble the instrument. That's a long and damn tedious process that you have to go over a hundred times until everything works right.
make sure to check the videos in the learning center (doubled on forum)
--------
www.truechromatic.com
|
tookatooka
2017 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:05 PM
|
@jonlaing. I've played Suzukis for a while and though I did try to emboss one once I found that I didn't really need to do it at all. Suzuki's are normally manufactured to quite a high tolerance and I found that apart from adjusting the gapping slightly there was no need to do anything else.
It may be that you are trying to play with the minimum of breath force that you feel the need to tighten the slot/reed spacing? For me, it hasn't been that critical.
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 4:07 PM
|
jonlaing
172 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:29 PM
|
@tooka Even a little bit of leaky air drives me nuts, because I feel like I'm playing mushy. Also the squeals in the overblows are a no go. When I'm playing blues I tend to only glaze over the overblows, so there really isn't any issue, but when I'm trying to play other types of music, I sometimes have to hang on them, or hit them repeatedly, and the squeals get horrendous.
@jim & @arzajac Thanks, I always go straight to the blow reeds to fix overblows... that's probably why it's been such an issue. Is that where the squeals come from too?
|
rbeetsme
354 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:31 PM
|
I always wondered what embossing actually does. Is it done to smooth the opening so the reed doesn't catch the sides or what? I asked Buddha once and got a really nasty reply. (?)
|
jim
628 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:33 PM
|
don't be lazy :) I've got three videos on embossing already :)
embossing narrows the slot tolerance. Squeals come from air escaping there.
----------
www.truechromatic.com
|
logansays
4 posts
Jan 03, 2011
2:36 AM
|
@hi Jim,
does embossing in any way affect the tuning of the harp? also I had asked this question on another thread abt chamfering....how important is it..
when u read about custom harmonicas , the one thing spoken most often is u can play hard the blow holes without choking and of course overblows as well..but gapping very close makes the blow reed choke..how do u get to gap really close and still blow hard without choking the reeds?
|
jim
629 posts
Jan 03, 2011
2:54 AM
|
watch the videos please
----------
www.truechromatic.com
|
tookatooka
2018 posts
Jan 03, 2011
2:57 AM
|
@jim said. "Embossing narrows the slot tolerance. Squeals come from air escaping there".
Hmmm! Evidence please. I understood the squealing was caused by torsional vibration.
|
jim
630 posts
Jan 03, 2011
3:21 AM
|
embossing solves this problem.
I'll make a video-blog
----------
www.truechromatic.com
|
logansays
5 posts
Jan 03, 2011
4:20 AM
|
hi Jim,
I went through the videos thank you ..very informative..will put it to use on an old harp..btw still not sure abt chamfering ..is it the sme as corner rounding? how much does chamfering matter?
|
jonlaing
173 posts
Jan 03, 2011
4:59 AM
|
@tooka as I understand it, air escaping near the rivet causes the torsional vibration. So embossing would prevent the air from escaping, hence prevent the torsional vibration, hence prevent the squeals.
I might not be right on that, but I've used embossing near the rivet to get rid of squeals on every one of my suzukis.
|
HarpNinja
915 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:42 AM
|
While not disagreeing, there are other factors that may make the ob difficult. Reed material, thickness, shape, etc might cause problems. I say might as if embossing doesn't help, you can trouble shoot.
It almost always works to use something like chapstick. You can just do the rivet pad and wipe off the excess. I try to not use wax or nail polish if I can help it. On Hohners that usually isn't an issue, but on some harps it is an easy and fast fix.
I have a G Manji where all I did was gap and rub chapstick on the rivets and it overbended just fine.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Harmonicas
|
toddlgreene
2383 posts
Jan 03, 2011
7:34 AM
|
"I have a G Manji where all I did was gap and rub chapstick on the rivets and it overbended just fine."
Mike, aren't all Manji reeds welded? I know mine are.
----------
Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2011 7:40 AM
|
jim
631 posts
Jan 03, 2011
7:57 AM
|
A videoblog about making one custom harmonica.
----------
www.truechromatic.com
|
HarpNinja
916 posts
Jan 03, 2011
8:30 AM
|
I meant reed pad, sorry.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Harmonicas
|
HarpNinja
917 posts
Jan 03, 2011
8:32 AM
|
Wait, are you testing the unreponsive reds with the plates secured to the comb properly?
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Harmonicas
|
tookatooka
2022 posts
Jan 03, 2011
8:39 AM
|
@jim. Is that rattling noise on your video the sound of your hard drive?
----------
|
jim
632 posts
Jan 03, 2011
8:45 AM
|
nope, it's the integrated mic being close to the shutter.
I'm using a Canon EOS 5D mark 2 (i.e. a photo camera) - it shoots perfect HD videos, and I guess it literally takes photos at high speed and the sound comes from that. I'll externally connect my shure 515 for the new videos.
----------
www.truechromatic.com
|
chromaticblues
445 posts
Jan 03, 2011
3:40 PM
|
jonlaing
Jim could be right about overembossing. You can only do 3/4 of the slot. People do it many ways. Embossing does more than closing down the slot when done right.
I use chap stick to solve the proble, but not how Mike explained it. The reed pad is dampened when you use chap stick or wax witch will lower the volume. I perfer useing nail polish because it dries hard. It adds stability and doesn't dampen vibrations.
What you can do with the chap stick is apply it just infront of the pad pushed into the side of the reed about 2 to 3mm from the pad along the side. Go sparingly. If you use to much the reed will unresponsive and sluggish. This will also remove the metalic sound from holes 2 and 3 when you go from draw to blow. That annoying ping sound that is so bothersome. Hopefully that helps?
The problem with asking questions on a forum is you'll get 10 different answers. Try them all and see what you like.
|
HarpNinja
919 posts
Jan 03, 2011
4:13 PM
|
Technically, what I did was rub chap stick into the sides of the reed pad, some got on the top and on the reed. I then took a lint free rag and rubbed off as much chap stick as I could. I also plinked the reed.
I haven't had enough time or interest to explore other solutions on Suzuki harps.
On the Hohners I build, I try at all costs to not use any foreign materials on the reed plates. On some combs, I'll rub a bit of chap stick when mating to the plates, but in general, I don't use chapstick or nail polish on harps...I don't normally need to.
I just don't like the idea of nail polish on the harp. I did that many years ago and while it worked, it smelled and took forever to air out. I swear I could taste it even months later. YMMV
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Harmonicas
|
MP
1217 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:10 PM
|
i do full length slot embossing.
with all due respect, the filiskos,sleighs, gordons, and rupert oyslers-i've examined, all-without exception- were full slot embossed.:)
i don't get the chapstick on a welded reed either:)
PS, chromaticblues, i'm looking forward to evaluating your work when MojoKane gets his harps from you.:)---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2011 6:14 PM
|
MP
1218 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:35 PM
|
@jim,
do you still have the deal where one could send you three harps (not junk)they would be SP/20s in fairly good condition- and you send one back customized?
or was it four harps?
i'm curious about your work also.:)----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2011 6:35 PM
|
jim
634 posts
Jan 03, 2011
11:07 PM
|
It was a REPAIR offer. Making customs under those conditions is too much work for nothing.
----------
www.truechromatic.com
|
chromaticblues
447 posts
Jan 04, 2011
9:24 AM
|
@Harpninja
Yeah I agree with what you said about the nail polish. Just recently (in the last couple years) it has become a big deal to make nail polish without fermaldihide. That is what smealed bad before and its toxic! The nail polish I use is nontoxic and has no lingering smeal. It seems to help with sustaining overblows.
|
HarpNinja
923 posts
Jan 04, 2011
9:35 AM
|
My first Buddha harp had a bit of nail polish on it and I know some other high profile builders have used polish and/or wax/chapstick...so I am not judging anyone's building, but for me personally, the goal is to not use that stuff if I don't have to.
On the models I use, I typically don't use anything and have no problems with overblows. The overdraws are trickier sometimes. I just feel strongly that some harps are better for OB playing than others.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2011 9:37 AM
|
jonlaing
174 posts
Jan 04, 2011
9:41 AM
|
I remember somewhere someone recommending against putting anything foreign like that in the harmonica. I don't know if they were saying that because they are purists, or if there was a really big problem that nailpolish can cause.
Is the nailpolish easier than embossing the full slot? I'm not a real customizer, so the 100% professional method isn't that big of a deal to me... actually since I have so little time to work on my harps (let alone practice), the less I have to fiddle the better. I'm a commercial artist for a living, so all I do is fiddle all day, harmonica is supposed to be my unwinding, non-fiddling time, haha.
|
