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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Lesson Plan- HELP
Lesson Plan- HELP
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nacoran
3535 posts
Jan 01, 2011
9:34 PM
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Silly Captcha ate my post!
Ok, I'm going to be giving someone local some free lessons. I pointed them to the forum and Adam's videos and gave them some things to work on before the first face to face lesson (tongue block/pucker, making a good cup, getting clean single notes). They have a rhythm playing background but it's by ear and he says he doesn't know much theory and he says he's just at the stage where he knows which side of the harp to blow into.
So, what would be a good lesson plan? I figured I'd go over what he's been working on, take a cheap harp to show him the insides, show him some scales and basic harp tab format, give him a couple simple melodies to start on (I got bored in school when all I had to practice was scales) and see if I can get him started on bending. He's got a MB in D. Breath support.
Ideas? It will be fun having someone else local to talk harp with, but I want to make sure I don't overwhelm him or bore him at either end of the spectrum.
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Nate
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Mojokane
217 posts
Jan 01, 2011
11:41 PM
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you nailed it...one more concept to learn.
The stage eticate of a good harp player.
Stuff like;
-a familiar harp standard, fairly easy..
-not stepping on people, very inportant. If you want to get called back.
-and trying to learn your debut song reeeallly well.
-and know when to step down...ha!
good post.
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2011 11:47 PM
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jim
619 posts
Jan 02, 2011
1:15 AM
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I made all my students learn tongue-blocking in the first place. They progressed much faster than those who started lip-pursing.
And don't forget to give him those lessons
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Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 1:15 AM
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Bart Leczycki
6 posts
Jan 02, 2011
3:44 AM
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I have one general idea (I keep it always on my mind):
We should look for holes in our knowledge/skills, that is my way. If I can't play something I have to work on this. That's it. I have about 30-40 masterclass per year in Poland but not only (France, Germany, Czech Republic, Belgium, Marocco also) and my system works :o)
I strongly recommand to play:
single notes,
Cmaj mode,
draw bendings,
positions,
tongue blocking,
blow bendings,
basic theory of music,
overblows,
overdraws,
bending the overblows,
bending the overdraws.
Listen music so often as possible, and copy tasty licks or patterns (solos also) and very important to be open minded :o)
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www.myspace.com/bleczycki
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phogi
492 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:51 AM
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This was my approach to teaching myself:
#1 - learning to play single notes, and 'oh susana' by ear. At first I could not get one note, so I u-blocked, then tongue blocked, then lip blocked.
#2 - learning to understand the harp layout by playing lots of melodies. I used this book -
http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Deluxe-Harmonica-Method/dp/0871663821/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293971547&sr=1-4
It took me a month to work through it.
#3 - Trying to bend...
etc..
BUT here is what I think is more advisable:
#1 Helping your student maintain interest by creating opportunities for success.
#2 Finding ways that make personal and real success intersect.
#3 Building mental support mechanisms so that the student will NEVER give up.
For me interest was never a problem. I keep banging away despite setbacks and difficulties. Yet most people taking up an instrument would rather give up than face delayed gratification. So, you build attainable goals and if you do your job right in showing them the way to it, they will have a much easier time.
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Stickman
603 posts
Jan 02, 2011
10:08 AM
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"#1 Helping your student maintain interest by creating opportunities for success."
I think this is the most importing statement made about teaching. It is very easy for a teacher to spend too much time focusing on what the student should learn and not enough time at what he wants to learn. There is a difference between learning something because you have to and because you want to. People will learn better and faster if it is fun, exciting and relevant.
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nacoran
3542 posts
Jan 02, 2011
10:14 AM
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Thanks guys! All very useful advice! Stick, yeah, I took baritone tuba lessons as a kid and even although I loved playing, my teacher never let us do anything interesting.
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Nate
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jim
622 posts
Jan 02, 2011
10:14 AM
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my position on teaching is absolutely different.
I had about 20 students in the beginning (giving mass lessons). Most of them left, and only 2 remained. But those have learned to play. In other words, I believe harmonica is not for everyone, and those who won't play - will be sorted off "naturally". So that I won't waste my time on students who will give up the instrument when lessons are over.
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www.truechromatic.com
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nacoran
3543 posts
Jan 02, 2011
10:28 AM
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Jim, I had an English professor who worked that way. The first day of class there were too many students for the class. She told everyone how hard the course was going to be, her policy on attendance (3 missed classes and you fail) and made it seem like you were enlisting in boot camp. By the next class about half the people had dropped out. That gave her an optimal sized class for teaching and learning, which of course, was her goal.
My class, 1 student, is smaller though, so it can't get any more optimal. I know different people learn differently. My school lessons made me hate playing. It wasn't until I approached things with a different mindset, that I was doing this for fun, that I got anywhere. With one person, I can tailor the style of teaching to him. I guess I'm wondering how to spot what style teaching works best. I suppose I'll have a better idea after the first lesson.
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Nate
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jim
623 posts
Jan 02, 2011
10:38 AM
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One more method you may want to consider:
You tell the student "next time I'll explain how to bend notes. Now you should search for info and try to do it by yourself, and at the next lesson I'll explain what you do wrong and what is a better way of doing it and why. If you don't do it at home until next lesson - no new stuff is shown. Cultivates self-discipline and independence from the teacher.
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www.truechromatic.com
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Stickman
604 posts
Jan 02, 2011
10:38 AM
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If they are paying you Jim, how is a waste of time? With a 'students aren't worthy' attitude I would probably quit you too... and go to another instructor that made my recreational activity more fun.
I currently am taking singing lessons. I quit my first instructor after a year. She was classically trained and wanted to teach the same way. So we only did Italian songs. I totally get that singing in Italian trains your ear, works the vowels and was helping my pitch problems. I'd ask can we work on something else sometime and was told "NO! You are not ready" The work was tedious and boring, so I didn't practice. I was paying for this because I wanted to learn to sing "for FUN" . So I quit.
My current Instructor is much better. Has given me songs in english (Although we are working on one in Italian right now) has already had me sing before an audience. Because I am challenged and INTERESTED I practice more and have gotten better in the last 3 months that I did in a year with the first instructor, who acted like singing was a life or death situation and if I didn't take it seriously I wouldn't ever be any good. I once told her I didn't want to be "good" I just want to sing for fun. She didn't say it, but I'm sure she was thinking "Why am I wasting my time on you."
On the other hand, I am taking a course on Building Professional Learning Communities in an educational environment. I am getting paid to be there. The Instructors have a no nonsense approach i.e. if you don't want to be here then leave. There are deadlines and they must be met and assignments that must be done and on time. Do I quit? No, I'm not there for fun. The motivation is completely different. Is the teaching as effective. You bet it is, but the difference between this and singing is one is professional and one is recreational.
So is your approach wrong? Not at all, but you would probably have more paying students (maybe even 20) if you were to take their motivations into consideration.
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Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 10:43 AM
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jim
625 posts
Jan 02, 2011
10:57 AM
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The truth is:
You need to spend several years doing very very boring stuff just to sound good (ain't talking about any music yet ;) )
And then you need to work yourself to death just to play a chromatic scale IN TUNE. How cool is that for a small instrument?
Those who are ready to work their ass off to PLAY it someday - will stay. Those who want to have some fun with the instrument will be equally successful learning on their own. I would give them advice where to search for info, and what to listen etc.
I think my approach is in no way arrogant.
Some have goals to teach and make money on it. I would teach to raise a good player. That's a completely different goal. My current project is to teach customising by the way. Choosing the right people for it at the moment...
As for being paid - I am making money elsewhere right? And if I know for sure that a student will not take it seriously - why waste my time? Just think of it: your efforts will give NOTHING. And you know it beforehand. You could be spending it on something else. Improving your own playing for instance.
It's more a matter of what "ideology" is behind what you do.
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www.truechromatic.com
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Stickman
606 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:05 AM
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My goal (and responsibility) as a teacher is to reach my students.
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phogi
494 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:18 AM
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Ah, now this is a great discussion. When teaching, which is better? To only teach students who will excel, or to teach anyone who wants to learn? My job forces me to do the latter, with some exceptions. If a student is utterly unable to keep up with my band, I have the option of removing them from class. This tends to happen to about two of my students per year (about 3%). Usually they are students who do very poorly in other subjects, or students who have developmental difficulties.
But I have other students who learn, but learn VERY slow. The question is, what makes the activity worthwhile?
For me, I simple love the process of learning. Doesn't matter what the subject is.
The Darwinian approach does have merits: First, you can say that everybody who studies with you is good, and doing well. Second, you don't have to deal with thinking about teaching. You simply explain in as straightfoward a way as you can, and then the student learns, or not. Third, it is easy to maintain high expectations. This is the principal benefit. When you set the bar high, and people meet it, and then others see it being met, then you get a reputation as a great teacher. Last, and most importantly, your students will have a good deal of independence when they leave you. One of my favorite teachers always would say "My goal is to make it so that you don't need me."
I like these aspects of the Dawinian approach.
But, there are some problems:
1) Maintaining a full studio may be difficult.
2) You loose students who are slow starters. Hell, *I* was a slow starter.
3) You maintain the idea that 'music isn't for everyone.' While that may be true, I believe that most people, given decent instruction, can achieve a level of success on any instrument. The level simply depends on their effort.
4) Great learning can take place at any level. Why deny eager students just because they are not 'tough enough?'
So much more to discuss. Please, continue.
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Stickman
607 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:38 AM
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Not only are there different methodologies to teaching but different motivations of the teacher. Some teach because they love the subject, others because they love to teach. I'm from the second category. We are a very altruistic lot. As long as you have the desire to learn (Sounds like your 3% don't fall into that category and I'm willing to bet, phogi, that if your DD students were busting their ass to keep up, you would bend over backwards for them) I believe most teachers fall into this category.
The other category (your darwinian approach) is cut from a different cloth. The kind of person that feels if you are not putting in 100% you are being disrespectful to the teacher or worse to the subject matter. So they weed out the week instead of finding ways to inspire them. I find teaching like this lacks passion and creativity and is very frustrating.
I must disagree. He is free to choose any style he likes as a teacher but to think that somebody who has come to him for help because they want to learn for "some fun with the instrument will be equally successful learning on their own" is just a bit remiss.
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Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 11:39 AM
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nacoran
3547 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:38 AM
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Jim, I don't think anyone is calling your style arrogant. The thing is, some people want to learn to be good enough to enjoy it. They may not be setting out to be pros. For those types of people your technique may drive them away. It comes down to what your goals are. If your goal is to find and train the next superstar that's probably the best way to do it, but for every superstar there are a bunch of people playing part time in a band or just on their front porch. If I had 20 students and wanted to produce 2 stars your technique would probably be the right way. I have one student. I can teach him what I know and show him the other resources out there.
Stick is teaching in a very different setting than you. In different settings, different styles work. In a school classroom your job isn't just to make a few stars. You have to improve everyone. I could spend time improving my own playing, and I do, but I'm not trying to make money at it, and based on my assessment of where I am right now, I'm can teach someone the basics and make sure I don't start them on any bad habits. After that, if they have the drive, they can pay someone better to take it from there.
I've found teaching, explaining things, also helps me make it clearer in my own head. It's like talking a problem through, so hopefully, I'll learn a bit about teaching, solidify some of what I know about harp, and if I'm lucky, I'll produce a student who will be ready to move on to a more experienced teacher!
Now to butcher the classics... Isocrates? I can never remember who said it. It was one of the Greek or Roman philosophers, charged different rates for students. If he was their first teacher, he charged one rate. If they had gone to another teacher first, he charged them another, higher, rate. Aside from being a pretty clever marketing strategy to get new students, the argument was that new student was a blank slate. Someone else's student already had bad habits. So, taking that into consideration, what are the harmonica's bad habits?
If my idea is to develop a lesson plan(for this student, or for a harmonica wiki or whatever) that would allow a student to move on to a more advanced teacher later without them needing a lot of corrections, what habits and bad habits are likely to develop early on. I can't think of an issue that is settled clearly, but the ones that spring to mind are tongue blocking vs. lip pursing or how much breath to use.
Since these aren't settled matters, I'd want to address them as unsettled matters and explain the benefits of each side and let the student explore. But there are probably issues that are settled, (playing with your nose is best left as a novelty!) So what potholes are there along the road to harmonica wisdom?
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Nate
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Stickman
608 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:45 AM
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I know this Nate, make it very clear that lip-pursing and tongue-blocking, which ever he chooses, are considered opposing religious Ideology that has been known to start wars and to never ask "what is a good cheep harp?"
oh and you are right Nate. I never said or even meant to imply that Jim's style was arrogant. I am also aware that he didn't actually say that I (or anybody else) did.
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Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 11:52 AM
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jim
626 posts
Jan 02, 2011
12:11 PM
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Sure sure...
If I were in a classroom - I would be teaching in a different manner. But in that harmonica club I had exactly one purpose - to leave someone who will be able to play and teach after I leave (and I indeed left that city :D )
By the way, if you begin with tongue-blocking, lip-pursing will be easy to learn afterwards. NOT vice versa! This is based on my own experience, not necessary to be the case for everybody. But generally - I've had a student lately who was a lip-purser with awful sound. I forced him to learn to tongue-block (he's got loads of motivation. I would say he's a :harp lunatic" :D ). And he had to learn a completely new technique. When I told my other student that blow bends are more controllable lip-pursed, he just switched to lip-pursing and tried (he learned TB from the start).
Just my imho on this. TB'ing will instantly force you to produce better tone (harmonica further in the mouth). So it makes the "tone quest" a bit easier from the start.
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www.truechromatic.com
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tookatooka
2016 posts
Jan 02, 2011
12:29 PM
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@Nacoran. I wish someone explained to me the difference between ET and compromise tuning much much earlier.
No matter how hard I tried with Adam's YouTubes I just couldn't sound like him using my ET harps. Then I just happened to try a Special20 and things started to fall into place.
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Stickman
609 posts
Jan 02, 2011
12:38 PM
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" But in that harmonica club I had exactly one purpose - to leave someone who will be able to play and teach after I leave "
maybe this a matter of semantics but I see that as a matter of "training" rather than "teaching". A finite time to achieve a specific goal to select/prepare a certain individual. That would be like calling Burgess Meredith in Rocky a teacher.
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Gig74
38 posts
Jan 02, 2011
12:39 PM
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I had my first harmonica lesson April 25th of last year. My teacher first assessed my prior knowledge, asked about my goals and got me to play anything to check my abilty (I played possibly 4 non single notes of Oh Sussana, badly :o)
The rest of the lesson was taken up by working on hitting single notes and although I didn't know it then the first couple of notes of "Sittin' on top of the world"
I loved my first lesson and I look forward to them every week. The hardest stuff for me is the theory and improv, it felt like I was being forced out my comfort zone, but sometimes the hardest stuff is the most rewarding.
He also gives me homework which is good as it forces me to practice specific things.
I think the teacher pupil relationship is very special and not every teacher will suit every pupil, if you get lucky you find the right one if not I guess you have to keep trying.
Nacoran I think you are doing a great think giving your lessons (and for free too) I think through teaching you will solidify your own skills and knowledge, as I find teaching anything forces the teacher to up their own game too.
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Bart Leczycki
7 posts
Jan 02, 2011
1:51 PM
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This conversation is very interesting for me :o)
I finished sociology on University of Lublin, so I have a little different perspective :o) On my masterclass I try to give maximum fun from beginning and keep individual interaction with every single student. Everyone is different, so I try to find right way to every single harmonica adept. I take care about group dynamics, so we are sometimes like football team. We have many new friendships after workshop. It's really nice feeling for everyone. I hope I can move my love for harmonica to my student.
I try to be flexible teacher also. On the end of lessons I give time for free quesions and I'm open minded for next subject of lesson. This is my point of view...
@Jim, if someone arrive to my workshop and pay (pretty lots of many), so I suppose he has good motivation for harmonica education and I try to keep this motivation as long time as possible.
Sometimes I have "slow student" but very very patient and "hard worker". HE has chance to be a really musician, not this talented but lazy dude.
In my opinion teacher should give students knowledge so fast and so good how he can and make good motivation for boring exercises :o) That's it.
I hope we will have more and more good students and great harmonica players :o))
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www.myspace.com/bleczycki
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 1:56 PM
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Littoral
227 posts
Jan 02, 2011
6:22 PM
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Great read & thanks all. I admit I wanted to yell at Jim. I agree with most all of his harmonica advise but none of his thoughts on teaching. I do agree with Stickman on teaching. I don't approach this topic with a "passing" interest, it's my profession and I am very committed to students LEARNING. All of them. That challenge motivates me. It's easy to progress with some and that's great but the reward that comes with the path opening for others is a blessing. It's really tough and sometimes ugly. Some fall through the cracks and I have to let go. Some see what they never knew was possible. It's not about me and what I know. Being an exceptional teacher is very difficult and far too many people mistake content knowledge for an abiility to help people learn.
Like being able to play harmonica. I have taught a lot of people to play, or at least start to play. I have a list of rules like learning to articulate familiar nursery rhymes with single notes and intonation (and YES!) tongue blocking but my number one rule for learning to play harmonica is:
1. Buy a new one when you lose it.
Seems silly, but I do think some people were chosen to play and if they don't have one around long enough they'll never find out.
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LeonStagg
218 posts
Jan 02, 2011
6:49 PM
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Good stuff going on here.....
I tend to approach teaching more like Stick.
I would try to develop an organized lesson plan for baseline fundamentals, as mentioned earlier. Then your material can be adjusted to match the strength and weakness of your student.
I made a big error when introducing the harp to my nephew, I tried to impress him by showing him how much I knew. I made his initial experience with harp about me, instead of focusing on him. I caught it in time, and have since adjusted.
Good luck!
LeonStagg....AKA Threadkiller
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 7:44 PM
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roberth5
24 posts
Jan 03, 2011
1:22 AM
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Hi Nate,
I am going through the same process, but I'm the student.
At the end of my second lesson my teacher ask me to tongue block the 3 draw. I'd tried to do tongue blocking before, and could never really manage it, so I put it in the to difficult basket. I had enough problems learning the harmonic lip pursing, and did not need the tongue blocking issue on top of it.
My teacher talked my through the tongue blocking process, and I managed to get the 3 draw.
With in 2 to 3 minutes he had me bending the 3 draw tongue blocking. I was not pretty, but I did a bend.
At the end of the lesson he left me with a tune/rhythm to learn.
The rhythm consisted simply of using the 1 and 2 holes tongue blocked.
I have been practicing now for 2 weeks using this method, and for the first time I'm playing the rhythm to a backing track. It is a miracle!
And, this is going to sound weird, but tongue blocking feels more natural than lip pursing, even though I'm struggling with it.
I would totally agree with Jim's comments, in regard to tongue blocking learning path.
My teacher said I'm better off going through the tongue blocking process now, even if that means marking time while I come up to speed, than trying to learn tongue blocking in say 5 years time as it will be far more difficult then.
I would say to plan your lessons around tongue blocking.
Rob
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Littoral
228 posts
Jan 03, 2011
8:29 AM
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The "conversations" we have here bear out the idea that it's easier to learn TB early.
Very nice to hear testimonial from someone in the middle of it.
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2011 8:30 AM
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Greystonesman
4 posts
Jan 03, 2011
9:18 AM
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A couple of years ago, I had some "one on one" lessons from a blues harmonica player.
I had not had any musical tuition since I was in school, some 40yrs ago, and so I was quite alien to the "teacher/pupil" scenario.
He is a great player, so fluent, never missed a note, and managed to get quite a lot of the basics over to me. Along with some homework via an instruction cd and book by Don Baker, I made good progress. I learned to play good single notes, learned to bend, and he said I had good natural tone.
But..... once he had passed on the basics to me, I had difficulty getting to the next level. I could play from tab, I could remember and play plenty of riffs, but I just couldn't get my head around improvising.
This is pretty much where I am now, and I know it's down to me to do my bit to learn.
I'm determined to stick with it, hell, I've got loads of free time on my hands.
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Littoral
229 posts
Jan 03, 2011
10:23 AM
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Grey, I assume that you've tried to accompany tunes that have no harp on them -that's what I'd do as much as possible. Then there's the leap of faith into playing with people.
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Greystonesman
5 posts
Jan 03, 2011
10:46 AM
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Hi, Littoral, yes, that's what I'm doing now. I've downloaded some backing tracks and I also try to play along with some harmonica blues tracks too.
I'm sure it's psychological, because I can tunes from tab and from memory. I've downloaded Adams advanced beginners course and I'm doing ok with that too. I'm nearly there, but that last step is the biggest, lol.
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earlounge
255 posts
Jan 03, 2011
1:47 PM
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@Greystonesman, from where you are at my suggestion for getting into improv is to learn the blues scale and then mess around with it over a I chord jam track.
Learn the arpeggios of the I chord and how the scale sounds over the I chord. After you get comfortable with this, then try to use the scale differently from how you practiced it. Play what you hear in your head... BAM you are improvising.
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nacoran
3554 posts
Jan 03, 2011
2:18 PM
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I think I have enough now to cover the first lesson! Thanks everyone. I'll be using a lot of this!
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Nate
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