I have just purchased my very first Marine Band, it's in the key of A and my first impressions are very favourable. First of all it sounds great, a little tight to play at first but is easing off now after use. OOTB it OB's on 6, harder on 5 and non existent on four and no overdraws.
From reading the forum I notice a lot of guys seem to do a lot of work on these harps Sanding & sealing combs and all the myriad reed and slot adjustments. My question is to Adam amongst others.
Adam, do you do much work on your MB's, or are you quite happy by and large to play them directly OOTB.
I feel like just enjoying this harp for a while before messing with it and then I might only adjust the gapping on 4,5&6 for OB's & forget the OD's for a bit because I'm not really using them in riffs yet.
I like the raw slightly airy sound of this harp and am not sure if I want to mess with it to fine tune all the tolerances.
Even thinking of leaving the cover plates as they are. Is there any evidence to suggest the opening out the covers produces a better sound. Could there be a pleasant resonance produced by the fact the sound hits the baffles as it were at the back of the plates setting up a rotation of sound (something like an echo)or is this totally 'off the wall' I don't know but would be pleased to hear your viewpoint and observations based on your experience.
And finally if there's not enough questions here already. Does anyone know if the Old Blues Masters messed with their harps?
Happy 2011 from not long after midnight in the UK.
Off to bed I think. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
@Arnoud73 Thanks for that. Very good Vid by Adam and also 0.17 on his overblow setup on 45&6.
Just wondering if Adam has changed his setup at all as I notice these vids were made in 2007. Particularly interested if he treats his combs and if not does he find swelling combs a problem and his thoughts on opening up the cover plates.
@Greyowlphotoart...*if not does he find swelling combs a problem* I remember adam mentioning somewhere that he simply cuts them off with a sharp knife when they pop up like mushrooms...and so do I...after some cutting they don´t grow anymore. ---------- Music is moonlight in the gloomy night of life. (Jean Paul)
@GreyOwl, i've only had bad experiences with Marine Bands in the past. Have you heard of Steve 'West' Weston?
I'm thinking of giving the MarineBand another go and his harps have great reviews. He seals the comb and replaces the nails with screws and he services the harp aswell, all for £35
I think its worth Googling him. it should take you to his myspace page, then you can click on his custom Marineband page. I'm not sure what his turnaround is but i think i'm gonna order one next week.
I'm not into customising myself, i'd rarther play them than fix em. I'll let you know what they are like if i get one.
"If you play one particular MB harp for an hour or so, the spit you blow into it may cause the wooden comb to swell a little, so that the protruding nibs rub your lips raw. (When this happens, I take a single-edge razor or the small blade on a Swiss Army Knife and carefully pare down each swollen tooth of the comb until it’s even with the cover-plates.)" ---------- Music is moonlight in the gloomy night of life. (Jean Paul)
I've got a few of Steve Weston's harps. They sound great and are much louder than my MB Deluxes. You should note that Steve is a traditional and very hard player..if you want to overblow, his harps will require serious gapping!
try mmpeace@cox.net email for mike peace he adjusts marine bands for 15.00 in tulsa oklahoma that price includes reed replacement
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2011 6:33 AM
I think Steve Weston's harps are priced at £40 now. I have a few of them - big improvement on OOTB Marine Bands, and minor adjustments to gapping will facilitate the overblows. ---------- Myspace
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2011 7:20 AM
Sonny Boy Williamson II used to bend his coverplate flaps inward. Other than that, People say the Marine Bands back then were much better. ---------- ---Go Chicago Bears!!!---
nope. SBW2 played prewar marine bands. Check his 1964 videos and look carefully on how the covers are opened. It's machine-built, you can't do it so flat and tidy by yourself. ----------
Thanks for the info guys. I am interested in Steve Weston's Harps as he is based in the UK (I would be very interested Ant to hear your impressions when you get one, ta)
Does he open the covers up btw and does he smooth down the edges of the reed plates. The ones on my MB are quite sharp.
I'm happy to open up the covers (if that gives a definite improvement) and adjust 4,5 & 6 for OB's and OD's on 7,8,9 & 10 come to that, but I didn't want to mess around with comb sealing, drilling & obtaining cover plate bolts and smoothing down the leading edge of the reed plates.
Steve doesn't open up the cover plates, but I've never had an issue with sharp reed plates on his harps. Comb is fully sealed and cover plates are bolted.
He's a personable guy, so drop him a line via his Marine Band myspace page and I'm sure he'll be happy to answer any questions. They are solid, well-tuned harps for £40. ---------- Myspace
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2011 8:56 AM
Personally, I found I still had to take a file to West Weston's harps to take the edge off the reedplates, but that's something I've had to do to all Mb/Mb Deluxe harps.
@swampboy Is it necessary to remove the reedplates or can you just remove the coverplates and file the top of the top reed plate and the bottom of the lower reed plate. Could this be done on something flat like a fine whetstone but instead of just putting the harp onto the stone and rubbing back and forth, rather drag the harp towards you rotating a little as you go to round the edge?
I don't even take the coverplates off. I just take a needle file and round off any sharp edge on the reedplate that my lips might come into contact with. Sometimes I do the same to the join/fold in the coverplates.
But a whetstone/removing coverplates technique might provide a better finish.
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2011 10:22 AM
Here's my rant on the subject of opening the backs--FWIW.
When you open the backs, it is good if you also replace the nails with screws that protrude thru the reedplates far enough to support the covers--and if you do that, you need to have screws going both directions.
It is the popular thing to open the backs--and I have done it to almost all of my harps--but my ears aren't really good enough to tell the difference. When you open them up, you do weaken the support--that is for certain. I don't grip the harp all that hard when I play--and I use a rack a lot--but the sides do cave in and need to be straightened out frequently, if I don't put in support screws.
Even though my own mentor taught me to open them--I doubt that it does much good (for me). It's like this myth that got perpetuated--it's commonly the first thing a budding customizer learns--and it's kind of the cool thing to do. I don't know if you could sell "customized harps" that aren't opened up--it's just expected.
Also, while I'm on the subject--a lot of importance is sometimes given to the vents on the sides of MB covers--to the extent that some very good customizers, like Kinya Pollard, will go to the monumental PITA of venting the sides of SP20's. My question here is--if a player has a good cup and is playing with good technique--how in the hell is the side vent or opening the back going to make a whit's worth of difference?
Even when playing in a rack, where the hands aren't even involved--my ears just aren't good enough to tell the difference--and I have done quite a bit of experimenting with it. Of course--others just have better ears and for them it is important to alter the covers--but I really doubt that any audience--even good players, could tell the difference when sitting at a table listening.
For me, doing the right reed and slot work and getting a better comb installed is far more important to a harp than this messing around with the covers. . . ---------- ==================================== Always be yourself--unless you suck. . . -Joss Whedon
Oldwailer Well made point. Your'e right in that the majority of players cupping would seem to counteract to an extent the benefits of the openings (particularly in hand held mic playing.)
This player just came to mind when musing on this point as he has an unusual hold exposing a lot of the harp. It's Igor Flach RIP, who had a very interesting an individual style. Hope you like it.
Marine Band has always been my choice tried a few others but always came back. First post on Adams forum...my introduction to the MB was in Vancouver BC around 1967/68 after going to a Jefferson Airplane concert with Muddy Waters as the opening act which intoduced me to the harp. Next day went to the music store and asked for a Marine Band which was the only name mention and ended up with a 365 (still have it) anyway a week or so later after picking up Tony Glovers book got my short harp. Purchased a couple of customs from Richard S back in the 90's which were outstanding! However decide to learn how to set my own up. Way back 16 years or so ago did a have a blues web page during the early days of the net and some of it still exists in an archive.. The old Satan and Adam page is at http://web.archive.org/web/19991012125100/www.island.net/~blues/s&a.htm
The main page is at http://web.archive.org/web/19991021225142/www.island.net/~blues/ This is an archive and not everything works but there are some photos and such...
I don't think open covers make them weaker. You can crush them either way. Imo, the MB deluxe or Crossover are better for tinkering as you already have screws and a more sealed comb.
Marine Bands converted to screws and with custom combs are the best. If you use something like dymonwood, it is easy to sand the comb and reedplates to be flush and smooth. Might have time to take pics of this tomorrow...Monday for sure as I'll be off vacation and around the computer (on the phone now). ---------- Mike Quicksilver Harmonicas
Oldwailer, I have to friendlily disagree. I think your argument works better in reverse. I can hear the difference, but opening them up is about making them louder. I think it also makes them sound brighter. With proper cupping you can do the opposite, make the harp sound closed and warmer. That being said, I'm still torn on which sound I like better. I think the closed harps sound warmer and cleaner.
If for some reason you are going to be playing without a cup or a rack (impromptu waving to the audience?) then a closed back harp might be the way to go, and if that warm sound you are looking for it might even do a better job than the open back harp with a cup, especially if, after leaving the covers alone, you cup it on top of that.
As for the audience hearing the difference, I doubt they could tell you which one you were doing, but I think some of them could tell the difference if you played to otherwise identically played tracks for them.
There are also other more dramatic ways to change the shape of the chamber. There is that crazy looking Seydel Fanfare megaphone, and the Hohner model with the wooden box you attach to the harp. I haven't heard them played though.
Just to experiment, after watching an old SBII video where he seemed to be poking with his fingers, I've tried sticking my fingers in the back of an opened back harp and you can do some peculiar things with the sound chamber and even the reeds. I tried a tongue depressor too. You can slide it along the reed as it's sounding and change the pitch. It wasn't terribly musical, but maybe I just needed to practice it more. It would be much harder on a closed back harp! Of course, it's probably not great for the reeds.
edit: Welcome aboard Sydeman!
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Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2011 6:52 PM
I go between GMs and MBs all the time. I try to use mostly custom combs...most being dymonwood. The reeds are supposed to be the same. I think they sound almost the same with the covers off. With covers they are very different.
Regardless, I tend to use ET, so that isn't changing things. In general, though, the physical feel of the GM makes it my favorite. MBs seem to feel smaller and more fragile. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Harmonicas
@Sydeman Welcome aboard. You've got me all misty eyed and nostalgic now!! Great story btw. I remember Jefferson Airplane well and was always fond of a more obscure song of theirs called 'Feels like China breaking' Will definitely check your stuff out.
