kudzurunner
2208 posts
Jan 06, 2011
7:41 AM
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I'll second what Little Bubba says: get some jam tracks and play along with them. Get David Barrett's IMPROVISING BLUES HARMONICA. You need to find the sweet spot between just wailing along with jam tracks and mp3 on the one hand, and, on the other hand, hewing quite deliberately, with great focus, to the 48-beat rule, so that you know exactly where you are within the 12-bar structure at any moment.
One good way of drilling the latter thing into your bones is to put on ANY blues recording, in the middle of the recording, and seeing how long it takes to figure out where the progression is. How long does it take you to begin to be able to count the bars/beats out loud.....
......[listening].........7-2-3-4, 8-2-3-4......
7-2-3-4 is the moment you're coming back down into the I chord after two bars of IV chord.
Every good player knows exactly what I mean by that sentence, and they know how it FEELS when you come back into the I chord at the beginning of bar 7. There are half a dozen subtle cues that tell you that's where you are. Barrett's book, with its stress on teaching you basic structures of improvisation, the way that harp solos are constructed and phrased, will give you lots of help on that count, but most of us just slowly accumulated the deep knowledge that let us KNOW what that moment, those moments, feel like. The return-to-the-I-chord moment at the beginning of bar 7.
There's a slightly different and much more important such moment on the first beat of bar 11: the return-to-the-I-chord moment that is in some sense the center of EVERY 12-bar blues improvisation: the return home after the long danced exploration away from home.
Again: every good player on this forum knows in their bones what I'm talking about here. But it's precisely this sort of knowledge that students in the early phases lack--and that they may not even REALIZE that they lack. You accumulate it by attacking your lack of knowledge on every front.
One of the best ways is simply to put on a series of blues records and count through the songs. Most of them will be 12 bar blues, but they'll have different grooves, and some of them won't be 12 bars. You'll have a terrific sense of accomplishment, though, when you crack the code and start to be able to do this.
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2011 7:42 AM
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Barry C.
115 posts
Jan 06, 2011
10:06 AM
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@ captainbliss
Rock Me question:
4-Blow on the 5 chord - now i'm confused? Isn't that usually the 4 draw?
"In cross harp that pattern for the V chord is
1draw, 4draw, 4blow"
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~Banned in Boston!
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belfast_harper
203 posts
Jan 07, 2011
3:15 AM
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Barry,
The 4 blow is the b7 of the V chord, the b7 of a chord is a bluesy sounding note.
Playing the 4 blow on the V chord is the same as playing the 3 draw 1/2 step bend on the IV chord or a 5 draw on the I chord.
Try playing the 4 blow at some point in the V chord and holding it as you go into the IV chord to see how it sounds.
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belfast_harper
204 posts
Jan 07, 2011
3:15 AM
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Barry,
It looks like your post may have been missed as it has dropped off the first page, so I will try to answer your question.
The 4 blow is the b7 of the V chord, the b7 of a chord is a bluesy sounding note.
Playing the 4 blow on the V chord is the same as playing the 3 draw 1/2 step bend on the IV chord or a 5 draw on the I chord.
Try playing the 4 blow at some point in the V chord and holding it as you go into the IV chord to see how it sounds.
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2011 3:32 AM
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Hondo
115 posts
Jan 07, 2011
6:51 AM
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All that I have played (CDs), since picking up a harp, has been blues. I play it all the time and I can hear, tap my foot, and snap my fingers to the 12 bar changes. I was helping a new bass player learn to hear them the other night.
I know about 2d, 4b, 4d. I can warble, bend, hold a note, play a spit octave, etc. I am just very weak on "what to play when" or "putting it together in the right context". When I record myself it sounds VERY elementary because I get a deer in the headlights sensation.
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Barry C.
116 posts
Jan 07, 2011
6:55 AM
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Thanks Belfast Harper!
See this is why ya need to know some theory - i'm wrapping my brain around as much as possible but didn't realize the 4blow fits on the five chord b7- and know something - i just tried it and it sounds damn good (ok i never sound damn good but sounded pretty good!)!
Very helpful!
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~Banned in Boston!
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sudsy
7 posts
Jan 07, 2011
7:45 AM
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In a plug for Adam's MBH lessons, check out Adam's powerharp groove and Groovin' shuffle. These two lessons take some of his 12 bar blues to an intermediate level and sound great solo. Three others that are great solo are John Lee Hooker Boogie Blues, What'd I Say, and Crossroads. Adam's solo lessons are great for those of us looking to pull out your harp and wow 'em. Hakan's Rockabilly Boogie and Stone Fox Chase are also great harmonica as a solo instrument pieces. If you know some others please let me know.
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belfast_harper
205 posts
Jan 07, 2011
7:57 AM
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Barry,
You don't need to know any theory to know that the 4 blow works on the V chord, you ears can tell you that.
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Baker
92 posts
Jan 07, 2011
9:14 AM
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@Hondo – "I know about 2d, 4b, 4d. I can warble, bend, hold a note, play a spit octave, etc. I am just very weak on "what to play when" or "putting it together in the right context".
When I was at this stage I found Adam's paid for lessons on this site is what got me to the next stage. It teaches you what others do within the confines and context of the 12 bar progression and the blues scale. It also arms you with some licks and riffs which you can start to incorporate into your playing.
I would often learn one of the pieces and then just work on one lick that I really liked. After a while you start to get your ear in and some of the breathing patterns you have learned just kick in automatically.
I would also recommend trying to learn some riffs and licks by ear, from tracks you like for the exact same reasons. After a while it all becomes automatic and you can just imaging the note you want and out it pops.
Other things I would recommend learning at this stage is the entire blues scale, up to the 6 blow at least (including an accurate "Blue 3rd"). Most tradition blues operates on this scale and it will help you when trying to learn things by ear.
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2011 9:19 AM
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hvyj
1010 posts
Jan 07, 2011
9:45 AM
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@hondo: "I can warble, bend, hold a note, play a spit octave, etc."
Are you sure you can "bend"? I mean, can you hit all three draw bends in hole 3 and both draw bends in hole 2 accurately on pitch on demand? Can you hit all bends in the second position blues scale IN THE RIGHT ORDER as you play the scale up AND DOWN?
I'm not suggesting that you can't. But being able to bend in a functionally musical way involves more than just being able to get a draw note to drop in pitch. Being able to draw bend effectively involves being able to do those bends i have just described on demand as you play and as the music may require. If you can't, that's something to work on.
Learning the blues scale up and down so you can play it in your sleep without thinking gives you the ability to move around on the harp in a musical way which allows you to express yourself. The objective is to be able to make what you hear in your head come out of the harp and in order to do that you need to know which notes are where and how to get at them--learning the scale gives you the ability to do that so you can play what you hear in your head instead of just repeating licks you may have memorized. It's the difference between being able to jam and feeling like a deer caught in the headlights. FWIW.
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Honkin On Bobo
557 posts
Jan 07, 2011
10:00 AM
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"Learning the blues scale up and down so you can play it in your sleep without thinking gives you the ability to move around on the harp in a musical way which allows you to express yourself. The objective is to be able to make what you hear in your head come out of the harp and in order to do that you need to know which notes are where and how to get at them--learning the scale gives you the ability to do that so you can play what you hear in your head instead of just repeating licks you may have memorized. It's the difference between being able to jam and feeling like a deer caught in the headlights."
Another gem, hvyj. It may seem like "that's obvious" to accomplished players but to us beginners it's great to get these pearls.
My follow-up question is: Are there any little tricks to keep the practicing of scales interesting, rather than just sitting there and going up and down the scale over and over? Or is this just one of those necessary pains one must endure to get good?
I'm struggling mightily with the practice thing....any and all tips welcome.
(note: I've already considered the "just put the harp down and consider stamp collecting" solution)
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groyster1
701 posts
Jan 07, 2011
10:27 AM
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@Hondo
in case adam does not see this it would be his you tube lessons 18,19 and 20-I have the dvd with the first 33 lessons on it and I think it covers the fundamentals very well
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Hondo
116 posts
Jan 07, 2011
10:27 AM
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@hvyj- I can play the blues scale in my sleep, forward and back.
No I probably am not proficient enougth to hit all the bends perfectly and on demand.
Playing the blues scale- mixing the notes up, playing parts of it, repeating parts, trying to resolve on the 2d(I chord)-4b(IV chord)-4d(V chord) etc. etc. still feels like noodling to me.
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captainbliss
380 posts
Jan 07, 2011
11:02 AM
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@Barry C.
/@ captainbliss
Rock Me question:
4-Blow on the 5 chord - now i'm confused? Isn't that usually the 4 draw?/
Can't think of anything to add to belfast_harper's answer other than a thank you to him for the insight that "1 8 b7" is much more helpful notation!
@Hondo:
If I'm being too coachy, feel free to tell me to mind my own business / eff off / etc.
Earlier in this thread, you wrote:
/I just feel stuck where I am right now./
and
/I would love to be good enough to be able to do very well when playing with some blues acts that I know (2 piece-drummer and guitar/vocals)./
I wonder...
1. Do you feel unstuck?
2. What's the next thing you're gonna work on?
3. How will 2. help you on your journey to becoming "good enough to be able to do very well when playing with some blues acts that I know?"
xxx
EDITED to remove a strange "not" that had appeared from somewhere...
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2011 11:03 AM
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Hondo
117 posts
Jan 07, 2011
11:52 AM
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Nope Captain- and thanks to everyone else for what I hope was an informative thread to some others than myself. I think, at this point, there is alot of great advice here and plenty to work with. On to do something abouit it now.
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hvyj
1011 posts
Jan 07, 2011
1:32 PM
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@Honkin On Bobo:"Are there any little tricks to keep the practicing of scales interesting, rather than just sitting there and going up and down the scale over and over? Or is this just one of those necessary pains one must endure to get good? "
Well, any musician who can play any instrument competently has put in time practicing scales. It is a must do.
That being said, once you can run the scale up and down competently with all bends in proper order and at proper pitch, get yourself a metronome and practice doing it in time at different tempos--that keeps things interesting. Once you can do that, then fool around playing fragments of the scale in DIFFERENT rhythms and syncopations without the metronome just for the hell of it. Make the scale fragments sound like licks by putting different emphasis on each note.
Now, when i practice scales, I put a lot of effort into trying to hit each bend cleanly and at proper pitch. That ain't easy to do consistently well. i don't mean some sort of slur that bends the pitch kinda sorta in the right direction. I mean hitting the bend dead on. It helps to work with a keyboard so you have a target tone for comparison.
Now, as for getting bends in the proper order, can you take a draw bend directly out to the blow note without releasing the bend? Can you do this with control and under control every time? It's not hard once you get the hang of it, but it does require some practice to get the hang of it. It's a little easier to hit a draw bend on pitch and then release it up to the unbent draw note--you need to be able to do that consistently well, too,
Ok, you've got all of that stuff down? Then play licks you think up spontaneously using ONLY blues scale tones, but not necessarily in the same order as they appear in the scale. This is more than just noodling--it builds discipline and control in note selection and execution of musical ideas. Then do it with the metronome on and work at staying in rhythm and on time as you play.
Got that down? Then start on the pentatonic scales I've tabbed out on my profile. Just click my user name. Learn the 3 breath patterns I've tabbed out and you will be able to play your harp in SIX keys (positions) without using any OBs or ODs. Actually, once you've got the scales down work on understanding how the scale tones relate to chord tones--that more than anything unlocked the music for me.
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2011 1:40 PM
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Honkin On Bobo
560 posts
Jan 07, 2011
1:41 PM
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Many thanks j.
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hvyj
1012 posts
Jan 07, 2011
1:52 PM
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@Hondo: "Playing the blues scale- mixing the notes up, playing parts of it, repeating parts, trying to resolve on the 2d(I chord)-4b(IV chord)-4d(V chord) etc. etc. still feels like noodling to me. "
Well, it may be. Playing scale tones and resolving them to chord tones is a means of musical expression--not an end in itself. practicing scales for exercise is one thing. Just playing scales and resolving them on chord tones in performance can be sterile. RHYTHM and groove have alot to do with it, too.
When you jam, you get a musical idea in your head that you feel will sound good with the music at that point in the tune. Your knowledge of scales guides you in making this idea come out of the harp (helps you find the right notes) and your knowledge of chord tones helps you know where to end the musical statement you've just made so it will fit well (blend) with the rest of the music. Don't just mechanically move along the scale and resolve on a chord tone. Have an idea--something original you want to say and make it come out of your harp. Don't be so mechanical about it. Sure, you'll screw up occasionally, but that's how we learn and grow.
Btw, you don't always have to resolve on the tonic note of the chord. That's always a safe thing to do, but it's not something you always need to do. For example playing a 9th (which is NOT in the blues scale) can sound pretty decent.
Scales and chords guide you in figuring out how play what you want to play (how to structure what you want to play)--they should NOT define WHAT you play.
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2011 2:42 PM
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MP
1244 posts
Jan 07, 2011
2:04 PM
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here is something related. i've been playing for 3 decades. i hadn't gigged in 6 months till last night. i ran out of ideas. i was horrified! i resorted to tricks. i felt like i was shamming. i was shamming.
it's not like i store ideas. i store licks. ideas come pretty natually out of thin air on the fly and make improve a joy. i couldn't access them. plateaus can affect anyone.
if you don't play or play out enough you get musically flabby, just like lack of exercise.----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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