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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Warning! Practicing tongue blocking can...
Warning! Practicing tongue blocking can...
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Heart2Harp
213 posts
Dec 22, 2010
7:27 PM
..make you a better pucker player??!!

I did about an hour of tongue blocked major scales tonight. The result: I am now able to get all three bends on the 3 hole draw while lip pursing on every one of my harps (from low G to high F)(something I wasn't able to get so clearly in a year and a half of playing).

Somebody, please explain this strange phenomenon.

Mathieu

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Heart2Harp

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MichaelAndrewLo
511 posts
Dec 22, 2010
7:34 PM
Cause you are now bending correctly with the back of your throat. Good job!

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Andrew Larson, R.N.
rbeetsme
336 posts
Dec 22, 2010
7:34 PM
It's all in your head! Actually, it is. I don't know, it's the way we learn sometimes, my guess is that your concentration is better. I've experienced this when switching from one instrument to another. We used to switch hands when playing tennis. Start out right handed, play poorly, then switch to the left. Played terribly, but concentrated, worked hard to get the shots to clear the net, into the right court, etc. After a while we'd go back to the right. Couldn't do anything wrong!
nacoran
3466 posts
Dec 22, 2010
8:51 PM
Rbeetsme, that's an interesting analogy. Come to think of it, that seemed to work when I used to try to switch hit in backyard baseball games!

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Nate
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Ant138
715 posts
Dec 22, 2010
11:34 PM
Warning!! Tongue Blocking can also get seriously addictive.Good Job!!


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jim
593 posts
Dec 23, 2010
2:06 AM
@Leonid:
...and it's true :D
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Zhin
612 posts
Dec 23, 2010
5:12 AM
Yes that's interesting isn't it.

I think what's really going on from personal experience is that you also learn to just have a "feel" for the airflow of the reeds when tongue blocking because yeah, it puts your mouth, jaw, breathing passages in a position that's more favorable for tone.

And it easily carries over to puckering simply because once you feel the way the air flows from a different perspective, it gives you a clearer picture to work with when you pucker.

That's why there shouldn't be much of a difference at all in your tone between pucker and tongue block if you practice it enough.

That's my opinion anyways.

If you really want to improve on those blow bends and blow notes in general practice whistling. Learn to whistle and vibrato it. If you can do that already, try that on holes 7-10.

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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin

Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2010 5:13 AM
stones
17 posts
Dec 23, 2010
7:20 AM
I agree that T.Bing makes the lower jaw drop more giving you a better tone, and whilst you are T.Bing it's easy to go straight to lipping just by pursing your lips more. I too think whistling helps you with your embrosure and diaphram muscle breathing control. but working those upper notes 7-10 have always been tough for me to get. but practice and more practice seem to be the only way to get over it... NOW if I could just learn to bend while I'm T.Bing... I haven't figured that one out yet... I guess it's back to more practice. !!!! merry christmas everybody!!!!

Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2010 7:23 AM
harpdude61
567 posts
Dec 23, 2010
1:06 PM
"you also learn to just have a "feel" for the airflow of the reeds when tongue blocking because yeah, it puts your mouth, jaw, breathing passages in a position that's more favorable for tone."

"I agree that T.Bing makes the lower jaw drop more giving you a better tone"

I have to disagree..why is my lip pursing position not more favorable for tone. My jaw could not be dropped any more, my mouth is relaxed and covering the harp, and I have a big open passage with fully open throat down to my diaphragm.

Actually, this may be a better tone because I have a larger resonating chamber.....my tongue is pulled back and down out of the way...chamber is bigger/tone is better.
Zhin
615 posts
Dec 23, 2010
6:05 PM
@harpdude

If you're not getting good tone on either one it's your technique that needs work.

It is very much possible for both pucker and TB to have the same tone. It's only the front part of your mouth that's different. The amount your jaw is lowered, how your throat and breathing passages open up is dependent on you.

It just takes a bit of awareness to make sure you are doing the exact same thing behind your lips and tongue when you're puckering or TB'ing.

The feeling of how the air passes through your mouth and down your throat should be identical. If you do that, you will get the same tone regardless. If your airflow feels significantly different when switching between TB and pucker... Well... don't expect them to sound the same tonally.

It's not that hard. I really believe anyone can figure this out.

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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
captin beef harp
84 posts
Dec 23, 2010
7:38 PM
i would like to learn to tb.
i does have a differant tone but i dont think better
Paul Butterfield did not tb or lee oscar or toots and many more i dont think anyone could say that their tone was bad
but is a good thing to be able to do as many kinds of tech. as one can so im gonna try to learn anyhow if old dog can learn new tricks
phogi
484 posts
Dec 24, 2010
3:10 AM
I find intonation difficult when TB'ing. Mostly on hole 3, and blowbends. OB's difficult as well, particularly on anything higher than a c harp. Practice, practice, practice.
barbequebob
1469 posts
Dec 24, 2010
7:40 AM
If you're having intonation problems TBing, most likely the inside shape of your mouth isn't opened enough and it's still in puckering mode and this is a common problem with players new to the technique. In many ways, it is more like vocal technique and to get the best vocal tone, you need to be singing with a very open throat and often times those new to the technique are still trying to force things to happen, including forcing their tongue to stay flat on the harmonica, which is the WRONG thing to do, as it needs (as well as all of your jaw muscles) to be 100% FULLY relaxed 24/7/365.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
DirtyDeck
147 posts
Dec 24, 2010
7:45 AM
BBQBOB I seen your name on a blues compilation the other day!

Here's a video...

harpdude61
569 posts
Dec 24, 2010
8:58 AM
@ zhin......I am getting a good tone...I think great tone lip pursing.

@ bbq bob..with all due respect because I have learned as much from you as anyone..especially relaxation tips.

you quote... "the inside shape of your mouth isn't opened enough and it's still in puckering mode and this is a common problem"

I'm not sure what you mean by puckering mode. I "pucker" with my mouth wide open and throat with harp deep in my mouth. My lips do not go into a kiss/pucker position. To be honest, if you watched the way I play and couldn't hear me, I don't think you could tell which style I was playing.

To me puckering is not a relevant term. I like that Adam uses lip pursing.

I've watched Jason closely. He can play tongue block side, tongue block split.......pursing, he plays single notes, double stops, blow/draw bends,over-blow/draws..etc....and his embochure doesn't seem to change at all. Only the throat appears to change.

To me, this is the only way to move quickly and/or smoothly between techniques.

Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2010 9:00 AM
6SN7
128 posts
Dec 24, 2010
5:47 PM
Going from pucker playing to Tongue blocking is like thinking and talking in English and thinking and talking in Russian. And then you dream in both languages...

Hey my Russian friends, do you ever dream in English? Just curious...
DeakHarp
261 posts
Dec 25, 2010
7:57 AM
TB Tone VS LP Tone .....Never in a million years will sound the same .....Thats a Fact..You can get a good tone both ways ...but they wont sound the same ....38 yrs experince ....Listen to BBQ Bob ..Relax ...The intonation in TB that is a whole nother ball game ...Yrs later ....
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Have Harp Will Travel

www.deakharp.com


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