I just ordered this from Amazon today. The price ($49.99) was too good to pass up. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this mic and what your thoughts are. I will be using it with my Gretsch G5222. Thanks! Astatic JT-30
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2010 11:17 AM
I have one. I've played with it a fair amount. It's not great. It's not horrible. It's definitely worth $50. Enjoy the mic until you find something you like better.
People who don't own one will instantly dismiss them and say they suck. Play it and judge for yourself. I was playing one on this track through a Harpgear Double Trouble.
I have basically the same mic...a Blues Blaster. It was very tinny so I took the cheapo element out, bought a Shure CM and new gasket from a friend for 95.00 and now it sounds great. Another thing to do down the road is to change out the volume pot. ----------
Nice deal ,. if you change the element to a Shure CM you'll have a good mic,..change the pot also <> ---------- Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2010 2:30 PM
Good question AirMojo. I think the mic companies are involved with the amp manufacturers and harmonica companies in a conspiracy to do whatever they can to create a shitty product that guarantees customer dissatisfaction. ----------
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2010 4:07 PM
well it looks like a couple votes for worth the money and a couple votes for shitty. thanks for the input guys. i would still like some more reviews from anyone who has used it.
I spoke to Shure about the quality of the Green Bullet once, and they claimed CMs and CRs were much harder and more expensive to make, hence the use of a dynamic element.
IMO, kind of twisted logic from Shure. That would be like GM (Cadillac) saying it was too expensive to produce the Escalade, so they produce the Escalade with crappy interior components instead. Won't people pay for quality?
---------- --- Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy. -Dan Castellaneta
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2010 5:20 PM
The Hohner Roadhouse JT30 is ABSOLUTELY worth the $50. It doesn't suck, and you get a very popular shell that can be upgraded to really great elements easy. I would buy one of these over any of the other currently-in-production Bullets.
Shure, Astatic, and every other element maker NEVER made their elements for harp players. They made them for a much broader market. Harp players started using bullets because they were CHEAP!!! The elements in the old mics were not only more expensive to manufacture but were, from an audio engineering standpoint, significantly inferior to the elements made today. They had narrower frequency response and far less headroom than today's elements. Which is, of course, why we like them!
Tooling up to make microphone elements is a very, very expensive proposition. The market for a harmonica-specific element doesn't justify that expense, not even close. So we have been, are, and always will be stuck with whatever we can get our hands on that was originally made for something else. ---------- /Greg
yeah, I'll second the part about, if you don't have anything at all...it would be a good first purchase, to feel your way around the world of amplified blues harp. You can't go wrong for $50. Talk to Greg about a good harp mic, when you decide it's time to upgrade.
There's no real market pressure for the manufacturer to put a good element in a harp mic so long as harp players will walk into a store and plunk down the money for a Shure 520DX just because it's a bullet mic and it's there in the store, or see it online and think "Shure quality." In fact, why lower the price when you start using a cheaper element? Those harp players will buy anything that looks right. Small market so you might as well squeeze a massive profit out of every unit you sell.
I'd buy either that JT-30 or a Superlux D-112 instead of a 520DX. In fact, Coast2Coast was just having a Superlux clearance sale @ $50 each, and I bought two, one to replace the one I just sold to a friend and one for a house Harp Attack rig for a local blues club. Sorry, but C2C seem to be out of them now--I really meant to mention it here once mine were safely on the way but . . . a good player can get a good sound through a good amp with the recent JT-30 or the Superlux and that gives you a good baseline to shoot for, no? There are also situations where you feel more comfortable travelling with a $50 mic instead of a $300 one, so it won't be totally eclipsed if you get a premium mic later.
Btw, the Kobitone crystal I took apart had the crystal glued to the element shell, rather than simply resting in a "cradle" like a vintage Astatic, so the current JT-30 may survive being dropped better than the vintage crystals do. Some people will tell you *anything* survives being dropped better than a vintage crystal, though :). Practice bringing the cord over your shoulder from the back, stretch it out to arm's length and then bring the mic to your face & you'll have a nice safety margin if someone steps on your cord.
@Htown - you can drop you kobitone for several years. Crystals are not that bad when new. However over the long run they absorb moisture and deteriorate. The now 40-60 year old Shure and Astatic crystals are all on death's door. Some appear healthy but they're fragile for sure.
Last week I received a beautiful Shure 707 with its original crystal from a customer who wanted a screw-on connector installed. It worked when he shipped it and it was packed fairly well. But when I tried it it was dead. It was very sensitive to handling noise but produced nothing via the diaphragm leading me to believe the actuator had delaminated from the crystal, which was otherwise still intact. Strange failure mode I haven't seen before but failed nevertheless. Damn shame. ---------- /Greg
What do you guys feel that the hardest part about making crystal elements would be?
Kobitone make a few different crystal elements, not just the 1" in the Hohner BB, has anyone tried the 2" crystals?
I always drop my new mics within a few minutes of ownership, usualy on to a hard tiled floor...it's not a quality control procedure or anything, just being clumsy whilst holding them up to the light to admire...;-) ...but I figure if they don't survive the drop, then they weren't worth having in the first place! I got friend to drop a Turner dynamic for me at a jam once...it didn't like it at all!
Quality control on the 151 was so variable that some stopped working if you looked at them funny, others seem bulletproof.
I don't mind playing through a Shure 520DX. I used to use one of those all the time, when I owned a Mini Meat. It's also pretty good when attached to a Harpgear Double Trouble.
I've used it in a variety of guitar amps, too. I've even plugged it into a solid state Peavey Bandit (with a Harp Tone+ pedal) and got some good sounds out of it. After I picked up the Harp Tone+ pedal, it was my go to mic for a while, because it was cheap and indestructible. I didn't have to worry about some knucklehead dropping it or stealing it at a jam.
I buy them used off craigslist from disenchanted harp players. I bought the last one from a guy who bought it new and used it twice. He bought it because it was a bullet mic. He decided to sell it because he read on the Internet that it wasn't a very good mic. He convinced himself after using it twice that there was no way he could ever sound good through it because of what he read.
@Joe_L: Thrifty you are. A $50 520DX is a lot more palatable.
@5F6H: I think the truly fiddly bit is that actuator that Greg talks about. IIRC, the MC-151 version is a miniscule brass-looking strip that's fused in a wrap around part of the rectangular crystal slab and connects at one end to the actuator pin in the center of the diaphragm and contacts the hot terminal at its other end. It has to conduct electrons released by the pressure on the other end of the crystal. It looks like a precision piece but given that the element was developed in someone's garage, fairly humble tools ought to be able to make one--I was thinking that hammering out wire of the right gauge/composition might do it. You've no doubt seen the crystal-growing instructions; I didn't really read them closely enough to understand how one makes the crystal to the correct size/shape needed.
I had a 2" Kobitone in a switched biscuit shell for a while. I don't think I knew enough to gasket it well at that point but it was serviceable with a harp-friendly amp like my SJ1 rig. Running it thru the Tone+ gave a good tone but it didn't have the harmonic detail/texture of a good vintage mic. I mean to try one again next month in a Turner 254 shell because I believe I could gasket it properly this time.
I saw an interesting old old patent for making the crystals...IIRC it's sorta like an ice cube tray arrangement, with some sort of way for keeping the stuff stirred or in motion, don't know where it's at now but you get the picture.
@htownfess - they come up frequently on craigslist. It's handy when people keep running down gear, prices drop accordingly. ---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
do these new jt30's have a 3 pin connector built in?
i got a $100 bushman/nady torpedo for $50 when bushman cleared them out a year or 2 ago. interesting shell with really a substandard element imho. it has a 3 pin connector built in which i would remove and replace with a screw-on type if i were to want a cm or other high z element in it. it pretty much just sits around unless i'm taking it out to plug into a p.a. at a jam or something. i may put a better low z element in it and keep it handy for plugging into p.a.'s. or may stick a ceramic element in it i've also got laying around. had a blues blaster someone gave me many years ago but even then i knew the thin sound it produced was not what i wanted. i ended up giving it away to someone else. if i'd kept it i would put a good element in it.
i have some nice mics, a ruskin custom crystal that has served me very well indeed, a 707a shell with cm element i've finally handed off to a bud here for a redo- paint, vol pot, etc, a ev m43u dynamic that greg heumann modded for me a year or 2 ago (total monster in a small package now), a shure 545s that is on the list for rework at some point.
i just took a look at the harp group on facebook and some of those guys have some truly beautiful mics. i know the mic mystique is partly aesthetics- nice paint, well appointed, etc etc, but i'd rather have a mic that works really great and i don't care if it looks like crap. then again it'll be nice to get the 707 back with fresh paint.
it's only been a month or so since blind mississippi morris had a $1200 mic stolen from him. twelve HUNDRED. to me that's just crazy. my bassman replica cost that much.
to me it boils down to this. there is no really cheap way to get good sound. it will take more than $50 for a decent mic with an element that responds well for harp. it will also require an amp that is built with certain features like the right circuit, tubes, and speakers. many guitar amps and old p.a. heads and organ amps lend themselves to the mods needed to make a good harp amp, and there are a few purpose built harp amps out there these days if you have the $ to spend. but you WILL spend some $$ to get it "right".
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2010 7:32 AM
"one does not have to spend a lot of money to get a good sound".
though i'm useing a 'respectable mic'- i'm also using a so called shitty transistor amp in this clip( most players cringe at the idea)- but it works fine. (i think Joe L does this same tune with a new crystal JT-30?
--------- MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2010 1:25 PM
Lip Ripper, the stock volume pot on the Hohnr Blues Blaster is a 500K pot, which is the correct pot value for a CM/CR cartridge that you see in a GB, but for crystals or ceramics, which is what the BB uses, that's the WRONG pot to be in it, as crystal/ceramics are of ultra hi-z impedance and need a pot with a minimum of 1meg, preferably 5mg. Howver, if you were to put a a 1 or 5meg pot using a CM/CR cartridge, because the pot value would be far too high, it would only work as an overglorified on/off switch.
I agree with Joe L 100% on his description of Cotton because you gotta have good acoustic tone FIRST and if you, you'll sound good no matter what and if you don't, nothing you cvan do can hide it except learning better technique. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
LIL'Rip,. The correct pot value for a CM/CR cartridge is 100K - 250K ,.You can use the 500K if that's all you have,. 250k will give you better response. MAke sure to look at your pot from the BB as the new cheapies had a 5meg pot installed in them & you sure don't want to use a 5 meg on a CM/CR, Below are pics of the different BB elements an the pots they came with:
I just opened the closet here in my office to see what element I removed and the box is gone. I'd of bet my wallet that it was within arms reach. Oh well, I guess I'll have to open the mic up. Since I have to remove it I may as well put a 250k in. What is a good source? The pot on my mic now doesn't really work like a volume control should. Like Bob said, it's kind of off and on. Now from the point where it just starts to send a signal to the wide open volume is a variable but not like I would expect a volume control to work. Thank you.
LR
PS If memory serves me at all I believe the top photo is what I removed. But it has been a while ago.
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2010 2:02 PM
Rip,.. The top pic is of the newer BB's with the Japan element & has the 5meg pot,.if so there is your on-off switch problem instead of a VC,..
Dependin on what CM ya installed,.. I'm takin it was a HighZ ,.YA need the 100K- 250K with the CM,.try Radio Shack for the long shaft,.YA need the long shaft to keep (install in the same location)on your BB,.
Or you could drill a new hole in the rear of the mic an use a short shaft. Remember to plug the original hole if you move the VC to avoid feedback issues .
Heres one I did,. chopped the Submarine Look as I call em off & installed the VC in the rear<>
"One does not have to spend a lot of money to get good sound. James Cotton is living proof of that. SM58 straight into the PA. " Joe L.
in one sense i stand corrected. didn't mean to imply that good sound is all about gear. a major aHA moment for me many years ago was discovering that i could in fact sound good Cotton style, sm58/p.a. channel. i still to this day will not hesitate to step up to the vocal mic and make it sound good.
BUT- as far as the gear-itis we seem to possess, the obsession with that warm round tone we look for and buy gear to make that sound happen, there are certainly some rules of thumb. that's what i was referring to.
a big component of this is a mic that reproduces well and maybe adds some bottom or in the case of a good crystal element, a bell-like tone with good mids and highs. the jt30 with mc151 crystal element did this. the bluesblaster was basically a knockoff, made to look good but NOT reproducing the result of a good crystal.
couple of years ago i got a deal on a EV m43u military nos mic. it was wired weird, for military spec communications, was low-z and no volume pot. and it did sound thin and muted through my tube amps with a custom made cable(the "wrong" end xlr connector was built into the mic shell). once i sent it to the mic rehab joint greg heumann runs and it came back, it was a whole new animal. high z and correct vol pot, it matched up perfectly with my tube amps.
my motivation for even ever getting a mic and amp in the first place was so i could control my volume and tone and not worry with a p.a. channel and a possibly unsympathetic soundman. it's much easier to reach back and tweak a knob or 2 when needed than to mess with getting to a p.a. head in the middle of a song. not to mention, most harp guys i heard/saw in the 70's who had "that tone" were playing tube amps and using bullet mics. my first rig was anything but a harp rig, still i made it work pretty well despite the thin ss/lapel mic, low z sound. things became much nicer with a bullet, high z mic and a real live tube amp slightly modded for harp mic.
@ rip,.. don't use the cap,..there are pros an cons about it ,.mostly used on crystal an ceramics to limit the mics response to very high frequencies ,.. I've seen them on some CM's,. By the way what CM have you installed in the mic?
Thanks,.I like choppin the Submarine Part(as I call em) off the JT-30 an BB's,.. Makes them more harp friendly for Deep cuppin action <> You can really get your hands tight around the mic.
Lil' Rip ,.. The top ones a BB painted Green,.The Bottom ones a BB painted Blue w/Smoke effect,. Ya say : "I don't see where you filled in the void ? I like to hear that <> LOL All Kustom builds are done by me ,.no build gets shipped out for any work,. Yes ,. the chopped jobs do take time,.but when you get rid of that Submarine look it's a much better cuppin mic.
The 99B86 is a great element for harp,.250K will work fine ,.if you haven't bought your pot get a B250K,.it's a linear pot ,.not audio ,.give ya better control of volume ,. ---------- Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
@ Greg ,. Thank You ,..yea ,.first time I saw a JT-30 I thought man that thing looks just like a sub,. But I guess back in the 1940's that look was the in thing with the war going on & all ,.an seeing that "conning tower" pop outta the water had to be a sight for sore eyes !
I bought a Roadhouse last year and put a CR in it. I like the JT-30 shape better than the 520. Recently, I decided to put the CR back in the 520 as they've been married since 1954 and really ought to be together. In trying to put a LowZ CM with transformer into the Roadhouse, I crapped up the threaded screw on connector. The phenolic disk disintegrated around the positive connector grommet (soldering iron too hot). I tried to transplant the disk from some new connectors, but it didn't work. Moreover, I've heard that the threading on the back end of the Roadhouse is customized for Hohner so a standard 2501MP probably won't just screw in. Master Builders Greg and Rharley (or others): any suggestions on resurrecting the original connector? ----------
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 7:59 AM
@joshnat,. "resurrecting the original connector?" No,Though I've never seen one get toasted from to much heat? (Got a Pic of it) Yes,.like bacon says ,. just get a new Switchcraft 2501 MP ,.
Not sure how Hohner installed the original ,..I'm thinking it might have a longer threaded shaft than the 2501 MP or worse it is just a press-fit like the BB's XLR? I went to Hohner's site an they have no info/specs on the Roadhouse ,.Just the BB's an not much info on them either,. ---------- Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Yeah I don't think you can fix the phenolic because the original is crimped in. I haven't actually had a roadhouse in my hands yet but if you could damage it with a soldering iron I doubt it was phenolic at all. Probably plastic. Some times the only way to replace it is drill it out, then make the hole even larger and press a threadedbushing in to take a new 2501MP. That's likely what I would do, and for that service I charge as much as a new roadhouse mic! ---------- /Greg
The hole is threaded. I'll try a 2501MP and see if it matches. Fingers crossed! The other thing about this shell is that the gray hammertone flakes off easily. About half my shell is naked now which fits the "roadhouse" image but some of the road or the house always ends up all over my hands. ----------
@joshnat, If the hole is threaded ya may luck out as long as it's 3/8"-32 thread,.. Fingers crossed!
As Greg says "I haven't actually had a roadhouse in my hands yet" Neither have I !
But from what your saying,. I can see why they sell for 50 bucks,.. Mass produced ,.no quality control,.shoddy paint ,.plastic not phenolic connectors,.. But all in all if the molds are good an it looks like an old JT-30 ,.all the cons can be overlooked with a lil' work,.an a good ol' CM element installed. Good luck,. ---------- Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
