Unremarked, I think, thus far, is an absolutely fundamental technical point: I'm afraid she's singing in the wrong octave for the song, regardless of gender, orientation, race, whatever. Typically, the crucial parts of blues melodies are to be sung at the top end of what's called middle voice, because it imparts a great deal of emotional urgency/power *if* the singer can use that part of their range reliably. If you don't believe me, look at transcribed vocal melodies in blues songs.
Hanging out at a Howlin' Wolf recording session ca. 1970, Peter Guralnick recounts Wolf saying something like "Let's try moving this song to B natural. Can't nobody sing in B natural, except Sonny Boy [Rice Miller]." The reason is that a blues melody that gets on up there on the staff is really bumping against the ceiling of typical male middle voice if you try to do it in the key of B. Kim Wilson sings beautifully in B and that's one of the things that's exceptional about his voice, how relaxed he is there.
Even in a key like E, try to sing "Mother-in-Law Blues" or "Pretty Baby" in the register that Junior Parker uses, and you'll know what I mean about the top of male middle voice (another outstanding thing about Junior Parker's vocals). Blues is just NOT sung down in the Barry White register, except as a novelty effect. The term "Cookie Monster vocals" is sometimes applied disparagingly where I live when someone makes the mistake of thinking blues is growled in a lower register. It isn't. It's wailed up in the Junior Parker region.
Aged bluesmen in the twilight of their years may sing in a lower register, but probably not willingly--they just can no longer reliably get up into the register where they used to do the song, and moving it down beats not playing out at all.
I have to wonder whether there's a part of Christelle's vocal range that she's unaware of--middle voice is the weakest part of most people's range and some barely use theirs. I don't think she necessarily has to sing it as low as she does in the video, but she apparently thinks her chest voice is the only reliable range she has. If I'm right, it might take a lot of work to bring out her middle voice, but the result would fit blues better.
I could be wrong about all the above, but after working on vocals the last few years, that's what I think. I confess I only got two lines into the first verse in the video and couldn't stand any more--that is just not how blues are sung, and there's a technical explanation, and if anyone can find me a bunch of canonical blues classics sung in that low a register by youthful artists, I'll retract the above. I don't think even Charley Patton habitually sang that low, and if he did, well, it's audible how worn his voice is by the time he started recording.
IMO, anyway. Better singers than me please weigh in, but I believe blues is usually sung a certain way because it works better that way.
Awesome post htown, thank you for articulating what I could feel but couldn't put into words. The result for me is that the vocals in her Help Me cover feel contrived/effected. But you explained possibly why, far better than I ever could have.
After reading the responses, I'm definitely in the minority here.
The harp playing, is of course, excellent.
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2010 6:08 AM
Thank you for that. You just explained something to me that I think I instinctively knew....but didn't know how to articulate to myself. I'm inspired to do some experimentation. Appreciate it.
As for Ms Berthon's voice, I like it. It sounds different. I like different. She may not be quite "there" as far as how she thinks she wants herself to sound. Other people might have some adjectives for the way she sounds. But, she is no doubt working on her voice just like she works on her harp playing. And as we all work on our harp playing. And, as many work on their voices. She may not be "there" in her mind or to others ears, but she's on the way. The more you work at something the more you own it. She polishes up her singing and she will find her comfort zone....and, it will be different but polished different. Like I said, I like different.
I finally broke down and gave the vid a listen...htownfess nailed it regrading the register in which she sang the song it. That just isn't a good key for her to sing this particular song in with that approach. I listened before really reading any of the posts here and then started to page through afterwards. She is singing it in tune and with some inflection, but I would refer to her approach as my singing in the car voice - where I don't want to sing loud or possibly strain my voice.
If you s vocals some great expression.
I've had vocal issues since 5th grade and have a hard time singing for a long time above a certain range even though it is easy to hit and wouldn't strain someone else's voice. That could be some of the issue here too - I try to stay away from certain pieces because of that, but that rarely happens when singing a blues tune.
Finding the line of not straining, but singing through the top of your head is hard. I have to sing from the chest when singing the first part of Life is a Highway and then jump to the range where my voice won't last long by the end. Yikes!
In humming along, I think she could handle singing it an octave higher and hitting a sweet spot.
Personally I find with my own voice that a stronger voice comes from "pushing" myself out of my comfort zone - i.e. higher than the register in which I speak - but not quite reaching the straining point.
I liked Christelle's SRV cover better. The vocal is less self-conscious. It's noticeably higher and cleaner too.
I do love 'that' Sonny Boy iv chord lick, Christelle plays it at around 1:42. I break out in a massive grin every time I hear it.
(for those that don't know it I play: 4d 4b 3d 3b 3d 4b 3b 4b 3d 3b 3d, though Christelle seems to sub 3b for 2d. I find the breath control easier using the blow)
p.s. while I think about it: is the Spam Prevention password when you post case sensitive?
Singing in a key that's truly appropriate for where your actual range is cannot be understated and that's more important than what key a band wants to play a song in just because, for example, a guitar may find it easier to play in A or E, but it's where the vocalist's range is that's most important.
One's vocal range tends to change over the years, generally becoming more noticeable about every 5 years. In male voices, the older you get, the more you lose the top range of your voice, but in return, you get a bottom end of the range you didn't have when you were younger.
Female voices, as they get older, depending on the woman, some voices get deeper and some get higher and every 5 years, just like males, they should always go to a piano and find where the bottom and top of their range is because it WILL change whether you like or not and you cannot do anything about it except make adjustments, often changing the key of the tunes you've been singing to accomodate it. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Thank you Guys - For clarifying some vocal range issues - I always change keys to suit my range (limited)!!! When a new band member asks why I did that and I answer "So I can sing it" I now feel more justified!! ---------- If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
Now back to ranges- I find I like to sing in Bb. For most songs it gives me the option of either singing it high or low, and gives me room to drop down for a note at the end if I want to, all in a part of my range where I can hit notes even if I'm a bit congested (if I'm really congested I can even get down and sing 2 Bb's down!)
I'm not sure I'd call singing low a novelty though. I think it may have more to do with where voices fall. Some people are really strong in the baritone to tenor ranges. Fewer people are really strong in their bass range.
As I age I have no bass range, a wide baritone range and could sing in a chorus as a tenor if I had too...well, I used to be able too...my range before my headvoice as definitely gone down.
But falsetto isn't a lasting vocal technique in blues...you can sometimes get away with it more in rock, but it is more of a trick in blues. IMO, being a solid singer with range in the blues is where it is at. There are few harp players out there who can do that!
Back to harmonica, though, I like that you can change the feel of a tune by the harp you choose, positions, etc.
@nacoran: You missed an important point--often what people think is a strong bass range *is simply a failure to develop middle voice*--the bass range in question is only *relatively* strong. I know because I fell into that category. And that reliable bass range is simply inappropriate for singing most blues because it is not as emotionally effective as singing the same melody in middle voice--the same urgency just isn't there.
@harpninja: Mike, my impression is that a lot of people mistake the top end of male middle voice for falsetto *in a blues context*. That Wolf "ah-oo-ooo" howl at the beginning of "Moanin' at Midnight"? That involves an F# over an E an octave up, right at the top end of typical male middle voice--but it *sounds* like falsetto because it's so much higher than the range where Wolf sings the rest of the song. It's also well up there in the melody range of a blues song in B, see my above post. That's just IMO, but I can get an octave higher on that howl than Wolf does, entirely in my head voice, so I think Wolf's howl there is simply clever exploitation of something serendipitous that happens with typical male voice in keys of E and D. What Skip James does may be true falsetto, putting whole melodies up there, but I haven't studied his stuff.
Until I started working on voice, I could sing bass and I could sing true falsetto. Neither of those was much use for blues. I think you would find a lot of vocal teachers/coaches who would say that kind of hole in one's range is very common, and that it can be filled in with training. I think Christelle's got that problem and has probably got a fine potential contralto(? not sure of the term) in there that would work a lot better for blues.
If hardly any canonical blues is sung in the range she uses on the video, then singing blues that low is by definition a novelty. And if anyone says, "Cookie Monster," it becomes difficult to take the performance seriously, which is way harsher than Christelle deserves but makes the necessary point about how blues is usually sung. Sorry, but there it is and I'd react precisely the same way if the track were audio-only. "Different" is only a characteristic in my book, not an automatic virtue.
@nacoran: You're right, I'm just trying to come up with examples--I was thinking Lou Rawls for one. But something Rawls has in common with Albert King or Big Twist or some others we might think of as big guys singing low is that they're not staying low, that they jump up into middle voice and that jump is crucial to the melody. It's sort of like an SBS harp, where the low end may function more as contrast and the real work may tend to be done in the middle. If you stay low, you get the Cookie Monster syndrome that may wear out its welcome after a song or two--or two lines in my admittedly jaded case :(.
Everybody knew that the super-low harps weren't good for much. Then Dennis Gruenling came along.
Everybody knew that John Lee Williamson was the be-all and end-all of harp. Then Little Walter came along.
Billie Holiday sings most of her songs in a very small range: half an octave, I'd guess. She's not about the "jump," important as it may be to others.
I'm a big fan of women blues singers: Denise Lasalle, Precious Bryant, Ernestine Anderson, Sippie Wallace, Bonnie Raitt. Cassandra Wilson, whom I saw here in Oxford a few months ago, has a very low voice--much lower than the others I've just mentioned, although Ernestine has a range that goes almost that low. Christelle is working lower than any of them, and she's not nearly as good as any of them--right now, I mean. But that's not the point for me. The point is that she's experimenting, trying something that's almost never done, exploring (relatively) uncharted territory, and doing so in the face of fears that she has been remarkably open about. She's committed to the process. It's precisely at moments when everybody knows what is possible, or think they do, that we need talented people who push the boundaries without being overly concerned about the finished product. We never really know what they'll find.
I still remember rehearsing with Ted Horowitz in his little apartment in the Village. Three or four of us were sitting on his bed. He said, "I'm Popa Chubby. That's what we're calling the band." I said, "Ted, with all due respect, that's not a great name. I don't see why you're doing that. Don't use that name."
That was our one and only rehearsal. He found other players--or at least he got rid of me--and he called himself Popa Chubby. He knew what he was doing. I didn't. I was sure I did, but I was wrong. The world has embraced him as Popa Chubby. I'm glad he didn't listen to me.
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2010 6:41 PM
And here on YouTube, amazingly, is the most obscene blues song ever recorded. Nothing else even comes close. It was an after-hours studio take and was NOT issued as a record! Yes, she is saying "nipples" and "would make a dead man come." And that is the mild stuff.
Lucille Bogan, "Shave 'Em Dry"
Now if Christelle wanted to become famous--really famous, big-time famous--all she would have to do is cover this song, French accent and all, and post it to YouTube. Just sing exactly the same words Bogan is singing here. Maybe swap in some really vulgar street-French, Pigalle gutter-French, instead of just saying "Fuck" a dozen times.
I wonder how you say "My cock stands up like a damn bell clapper" in French?
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2010 6:51 PM
Of course it's possible that Bogan is just too damn raw and sexual for Christelle. In which case, Sommelier Gussow has another suggestion: "I'm Wild About That Thing," by Bessie Smith, a terrific song about sexual love:
Hey 7LimitJI: You sure are on target with that video of Annie: she smoked (and I don't mean that in comparison with Christelle per se as their "harp voices" are both so different which is wonderful). Nevertheless Annie smoked! (As did D as always).. ---------- myspacefacebook
Adam, I think you got the line wrong. I think it's":
"Now your nuts hand down like a damn bell clapper, and your dick stands up like a steeple."
Those are some pretty raunchy lyrics; there is a nice balance of descriptions though. I think a lot of sexual lyrics get in trouble because they just objectify the other sex. Guys sound like misogynists and women get tarred and feathered for being too sexual. Laughing in the middle of the lyrics kind of disarmed it somehow.
Six or seven posts ago Adam wrote of Christelle's recordings -
"The point is that she's experimenting, trying something that's almost never done, exploring (relatively) uncharted territory, and doing so in the face of fears that she has been remarkably open about. She's committed to the process. It's precisely at moments when everybody knows what is possible, or think they do, that we need talented people who push the boundaries without being overly concerned about the finished product. We never really know what they'll find."
This just about nails the approach I believe we should all take to anything new and different within music. Unfortunately I have come to realise that for many the development of blues harmonica stopped with Little Walter (see Adams second paragraph).
All this talk of vocal ranges is fine in a historical context (i.e. out of 1000 recordings 'x' were sung in this range, 'y' were in this range etc), but surely must be pure nonsense in a modern situation - who can predict what tomorrow would bring.
I personally have no desire to try and copy Son of Dave - all the effects are not for me. However, I applaud S.O.D. and enjoy listening to his music, even though the world would be a poorer place if everyone went down that route.
I encourage everyone to be more relaxed, generous and open-minded (or should that be open-hearted?) towards Christelle and others who are trying to 'do-their-own-thing'. Remember, Charlie 'Bird' Parker was laughed at and scorned when developing his jazz sound - who would dare laugh now?
I should qualify what I'm saying by acknowledging the general validity of BBQBob's observations. I don't dismiss the phrase "accumulated wisdom." Wisdom is a good thing, and people who dispense it are a good thing to have around, too. But accumulated wisdom is always, at least theoretically, in danger of becoming merely conventional wisdom, and great innovations, great creative leaps--such as the airplane, and amplified harmonica as a lead instrument--often comes as a revolt against conventional wisdom. So I've got a soft spot in my heart for people who risk being different, as long as I can see that the drive to differentiate is backed by some real creativity.
Vocals take time to truly develop, like anything else, and you ARE gonna screw up a lot on the way. Finding the range of where one's voice is is only part of the deal and that's gonna change every few years.
Jimmy Rogers always sang Walking By Myself in A, but when I was in my 20's, that was tough for me because the bottom end of my range couldn't handle the tune and I had to sing it in either B or C, but now, my voice range has lowered enough (my top end is nowhere what it was in my 20's but I have a bottom end I never had when I was in my 20's) that I can easily sing it in the key Jimmy sang it.
Frank Sinatra couldn't hit the highs he once did when younger but found that he also had a bottom end he never had when he was younger and so he had to lower the keys on a number of the tunes he sang. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
EV630 - You got that right. Junior was amazing and that CD is a good one. One of my favorite cuts is the one by BB Odom entitled I Don't Know. That cat could sing! He was full of soul. ---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2010 10:54 PM
@kudzurunner "The point is that she's experimenting, trying something that's almost never done, exploring (relatively) uncharted territory, and doing so in the face of fears that she has been remarkably open about. She's committed to the process. It's precisely at moments when everybody knows what is possible, or think they do, that we need talented people who push the boundaries without being overly concerned about the finished product. We never really know what they'll find."
Your comments, in general, seem to be very true. However, I think you're maybe giving her too much credit regarding her singing. I am not saying her singing is bad, needs to sing differently, or isn't a valid form of expression, but she isn't really pushing boundaries with it here.
She is doing the best she can with what she has, which is very unpolished, but there is a huge difference between someone intentionally challenging the norm and giving the world a middle finger, metaphorically speaking, in the process - see your Popa Chubby example, Jason Ricci, SOD, Brendan P., Little Walter, etc - and what is going on here with the vocals.
It isn't like she is trying throat singing or experimenting with auto-tune...she is a beginning singer trying to figure out her voice and what it can/can't do. Just because her voice is perceived as different because 1.) it is low compared to the typical woman and 2.) she has an accent that isn't frequently heard by the majority of the board here, that doesn't mean she is pushing boundaries.
IDK, I just feel there has to be a certain level of intentional challenging of a norm with a level of confidence that just isn't there with this piece.
Some of her other posts do that with the harmonica, and all of them do with her format of how she uses YouTube. I always find it interesting how things are judged and how we as people try to make judgements like we don't bring in all sorts of biases, preconceived notions, ego, etc.
I am not much of a gambler, but I'd bet had almost anyone else on this forum posted a similar rendition of that song on harmonica with average vocals, it would have had half a dozen posts here in reply tops.
It is an impossible experiment, but I would love to have seen how a traditional webcam version of Help Me with not-so-polished vocals would have been perceived had we had this performance from Christelle, one from Adam, one from Alex P., one from Buddha, and one from a beginning to intermediate player on the board here.
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2010 1:40 AM