Kyzer Sosa
830 posts
Oct 12, 2010
11:25 PM
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people making videos of themselves playing the harmonica who feel it's necessary to hold their instruments up, before they begin, to the camera to show key and/or model? i, very simply, dont get it.
stop it. unless you are an endorser of a particular brand, and have something to gain for doing so, or are making a video specifically for complete noobs, just stop it. what are you trying to do? show us that you havent cleaned your harp since the reagan administration? or are you so filled with arrogance about your shiny new toy? no other form of music on the earth that you will find on youtube has any player showing off their instrument before they play...and well, it's gotten to me. bad.
if you think you are doing all your viewers a favor, you arent. anyone who has played for more than two months can figure out what key you are in, and the rest dont give a sh--.
thanks for your time.
this has been a kyzer sosa public service announcement.
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tookatooka
1805 posts
Oct 13, 2010
12:49 AM
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I did it purely to show I was using a harp and not just covering my mouth with my hands and miming to a song.
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Ryan
360 posts
Oct 13, 2010
3:30 AM
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They do it because if they don't they'll get 20+ people asking them what key and model harmonica they're using in the comment section. Even when they put that information in the info box, a bunch of people still end asking.
It gets irritating when every 3rd or 4th comment you read is someone asking what harmonica or key they're using.
You're going to give yourself a heart attack if you let such insignificant things bother you so much. ; )
Last Edited by on Oct 13, 2010 3:54 AM
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MrVerylongusername
1295 posts
Oct 13, 2010
3:43 AM
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Why not just write the harp key in the info box or say out-loud what your using? Besides, your typical webcam, combined with flv quality means you couldn't make out the key label even if you tried.
People do it because Christelle did it, and it bugs me too.
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HarmonicaMick
198 posts
Oct 13, 2010
4:06 AM
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Ryan took the words right out of my mouth. There is a Jason Ricci video where he seems to be restraining his irritation over this. In the few vids I have on Harpfriends and on my channel, I do what MrV suggests.
Harp players do seem to be overly concerned over this kind of thing more than a lot of folks are, though, I'm not quite sure why. It's not like most YT vids are done on a Richard Sleigh gold plated super-duper diamond encrusted super-embossed mega harp.
Anyhow, I can't say I get that bothered by the whole thing. I suspect, Kyzer, that your annoyance with it was meant at least partly in jest.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Oct 13, 2010 4:08 AM
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Ryan
361 posts
Oct 13, 2010
4:08 AM
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Putting the key and model in the info box is ineffective, as I said, people don't bother to read it so you still gets a bunch of people asking you what key/model you're using in the comment section. In one of Jason's videos he even mentions the fact that he still get tons of people asking him what key he's using despite the fact that he put that information in the info box.
And if you're annoyed by the fact that someone holds up their harmonica in a video, why wouldn't you be annoyed by people beginnig every single video by telling you what key and model harmonica they're going to use?
There's no pleasing everyone.
EDIT: I didn't mean to repeat what Mick said about Jason, but we must have been posting at the same time. Actually I had to re-type the entire post because when I tried to post it didn't go through, and I lost what I wrote. I really hate it when that happens. I've had had it happen a couple times after I'd written a huge post, and then in the blink of an eye it's gone, it can seriously drive you crazy. I try to remember to copy any long post before I actually post it, just incase it doesn't go through.
Last Edited by on Oct 13, 2010 4:16 AM
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HarmonicaMick
199 posts
Oct 13, 2010
4:11 AM
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Yeah, Ryan. That's the same video I'm referring to.
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htownfess
191 posts
Oct 13, 2010
4:34 AM
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Now it can be told: Rumor has it that the "harp thrust" is meant to denote the video poster's mastery of an esoteric martial art, Hop Magu. Legend says Hop Magu originated in an episode of the cartoon about the nearsighted character Mr. Magoo, where Magoo is about to try busking on the sidewalk at night. Unable to see that the guy who just walked up to him is a mugger, Magoo accidentally knocks the guy out when he asks for help in reading the key on his harmonica. Thus the fundamental self-defense and attack move in Hop Magu is thrusting a diatonic harmonica into the face of the opponent.
Should that move fail to resolve the threat situation, it may become necessary to play the harmonica to subdue the opponent. Since Hop Magu practitioners are so skilled with the harp thrust, though, they seldom find themselves facing such escalation, and hence many of them seldom play their harmonicas in public. The "playing heads" videos on YouTube are thus a rare glimpse of some of the foremost devotees of this formidable martial art practicing their advanced techniques.
Don't be surprised if this thread is redacted, and you hear rumors that I was hunted down and played at.
:)
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KingoBad
431 posts
Oct 13, 2010
4:43 AM
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A little know blues tradition - when a harmonica master takes on a pupil, he temporarily blind him in one eye with a thrust of the harp.
This accomplishes several things:
1. It gets the attention of the student.
2. I allows the student to identify with the sorrow and pain associated with the genre.
3. It heightens the other senses by removing half of their vision temporarily (permanently if needed).
4. It allows them to adopt a better blues name "blind" harmonica player Lemon for example.
The You-tube teachers are simply retaining this tradition by simulating this act on their videos.
I'm surprised not one of you know this....
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Greyowlphotoart
129 posts
Oct 13, 2010
5:07 AM
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It's purely instructional, blow through the holes in the front to get the blow notes, suck through the back of the harmonica to get the draw notes, right? :o)
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toddlgreene
1908 posts
Oct 13, 2010
5:10 AM
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It's all fun and games-and it's just another harmonica ditty-until someone gets a harmonica in the eye. Maybe we need another thread about the harmonica of choice for puttin' eyeballs out and giving shiners.
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Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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hvyj
705 posts
Oct 13, 2010
5:27 AM
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A lot of the videos you are describing would be much better if they just showed the harp and then stopped right there.
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Kyzer Sosa
831 posts
Oct 13, 2010
5:40 AM
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yes mick, partly in jest. indeed.
to me, it's tits on a bull.
can you imagine tossing up a vid on youtube after your 15th take, and every time you stopped and re-hit record, you went thru the motion of jamming a harp into our virtual eye? perhaps in vain, to reinforce the fallacy that the clip is spontaneous, or done on only one take? bwahahahahahahahaaaa!
okay, here goes... To begin all of MY vids, I will hold up the title to my father's 1973 dodge challenger
heh heh..
in all seriousness, i guess it has it's place if your vids are getting mega hits and are constantly asked what key youre in. im guessing, liberally, that happens to a few dozen people that post vids, at the most.
the rest of us? relfex action? i dunno, i like the Hop magoo, harp in the eye explanation.
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nacoran
2980 posts
Oct 13, 2010
8:55 AM
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Kingo, RFLMAO!
Ryan, I don't know what browser you use. I used to have that problem in Firefox, but I added a plug-in, I think it was called Lazarus Form Recovery or something like that. Whenever things hung up I could click a little button and it would let me recover the text from the last few posts. It slowed Firefox down a little, since it was always auto-saving.
I use Chrome now, and it seems to hang a lot less, and when it does, it usually doesn't wipe out the field data.
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Nate
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mercedesrules
36 posts
Oct 13, 2010
9:03 AM
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.....So, should I stop holding the harp up in front of me first at home when I practice?
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clyde
58 posts
Oct 13, 2010
9:30 AM
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kyzer
i find most of your posts and replies very insightful....however... i don't get this post at all.
who cares? oh, i forgot....you do.
now let's go pick on frank some more!
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kudzurunner
1927 posts
Oct 13, 2010
12:25 PM
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Kyser:
I'm sure I helped make the harp hold-up a standard fixture in YT harmonica videos, and I agree it's become a cliche. But your basic premise is wrong: almost nobody seems to be able to figure out the key by ear. I remain astonished by how clueless most people are on that count
The visual is a nice correlate to the spoken cue. Many people who watch YT aren't native English speakers. Holding up the harp while saying the key is a nice way for an American (for example) to show that he's interested in sharing information with the rest of the world--rather than being a fast-talking Anglo who assumes that everybody can instantly follow his spoken key-cue. I'm cosmopolitan; that's why I hold up my harp. Universal harp language.
As for IDing the key in the "more info" text box: great idea, and I often do that, but when YT videos are scooped up by other video websites, they sometimes get rid of the more info [sic].
Last Edited by on Oct 13, 2010 12:27 PM
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nacoran
2986 posts
Oct 13, 2010
12:41 PM
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There is an app that lets you hum a few bars of a song and it will search it's database and tell you what song it is. Assuming you can just play the song into it, there is a plug-in for Windows Media Player that identifies the key of a song (it doesn't work with the latest version of WMP) If those to things were combined you would have a key finder app. The problem, of course, would be that no one would ever find your app, because when you type 'finding the key' you get all sorts of philosophical responses about finding the key to life, and all sorts of practical responses, like suggestions to always put your keys by the door. :)
Whenever I find the key for a song in my media library I add it to the metadata. I've moved the 'key' column right next to the song title. That way at least I only have to spend half the song figuring out the key once per song.
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Nate
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the_happy_honker
30 posts
Oct 13, 2010
1:05 PM
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kudzurunner sez:
"almost nobody seems to be able to figure out the key by ear. I remain astonished by how clueless most people are on that count"
People can't figure out the key because you designed it that way.
You recently said you used Bb in the YT videos as a way of shutting out the newbies. Its a key they don't have and don't know exists. And when newbies (the overwhelming majority of viewers) can't tootle along with the lesson on their C harp, they ask what is going on here.
Last Edited by on Oct 13, 2010 1:06 PM
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Kyzer Sosa
832 posts
Oct 13, 2010
1:06 PM
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yeah, i didnt think it bothered most people, and it hasnt bothered me, until i saw it 20 times yesterday and each time, it served no purpose. so yes clyde, i suppose i, alone, care. why would i post what is intended to be a light hearted topic about something someone else besides me cares about? i dont know either.
and FWIW, Frank has his own place in the harp space-time continuum. I decided a while ago to just let that be. it is what it is.
when your most popular video has well over 100,000 hits, and you are widely considered to be one of the most influential youtube harmonica tutorial "give-away'ers", it makes perfect sense to explain which harp youre using. no bones about it.
in closing, forgive me if ive struck a nerve to the ones who dont fall into the category of the previous paragraph. i just thought id point it out.
ill TRY to keep my posts relevant to topics other people care about.
back to your regularly scheduled program.
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nacoran
2988 posts
Oct 13, 2010
1:09 PM
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Kyzer, don't worry, I thought it was funny. Kingo just ruled the thread with the harmonica to the eye comment. :)
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Nate
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Kyzer Sosa
833 posts
Oct 13, 2010
1:11 PM
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@ honker: yeah but he SAYS he's using a Bb harp in those vids... doesnt he?
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bluemoose
345 posts
Oct 13, 2010
1:29 PM
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(or you can use the bluemoose MBH webbrain that has all, well 95%, of Gussow's youtube vids indexed by harp key(s) used.)
http://webbrain.com/u/11EO
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kudzurunner
1928 posts
Oct 13, 2010
5:14 PM
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@the honker: That's funny! First I'm flanked by those like Kyser who wonder why people (like me) hold up my harps in every video; then I'm flanked by people like you who insist that I'm somehow trying to shut out beginners. I'm not trying to shut out anybody; that's not a term I've ever used, and that's not the spirit in which I've uploaded a single YouTube or MBH lesson. I'm an educator. The root of educate is to draw out. I chose to do many of my early lessons on a Bb for several reasons, including the purely selfish reason, as I noted, of preferring to use the best-sounding harp I had at the time. I also wanted to distinguish my lessons from those of other YT teachers. Finally, I felt that intermediate players needed somebody who was ministering to them. So I was very clear, literally from day 1, in the channel description for my YT channel. Here's how it begins:
"This channel features an ongoing series of free-form lessons in the subtleties of contemporary blues harmonica. Beginners will learn useful things here, but most of my conversation is oriented towards intermediate and advanced players who have learned some or most of the basic techniques but KNOW they are missing something. It's that 'something' that I'm going to explore here."
Those words have been unchanged since March 2007. My channel description doesn't shut out anybody. It's simply clear about who I intend my primary audience to be. By using a Bb harp, I'm trying to encourage beginning players to meet me halfway by doing what they should be doing in any case: purchasing a second key of harp after they've bought the obvious key of C beginner's harp.
But all this is moot. Your charge is silly because of what I actually did in many of those early videos: I held up the harp and said, "I'm using a Bb harp." In response to many queries, I also put the harp key in the video description. Finally, the moment that Dewey Deloe created his index of 100 lessons, each with the key of harp clearly listed, I made it available to folks for $1. An earlier version of an index for the first 50 videos was and still is (I believe) available for free. If that's shutting out beginners, I'd like to meet the guy who you consider a welcomer!
The truth is, I created this website specifically as a way of ministering to beginners, since my YT channel wasn't designed to do that. That's why virtually all the beginners lessons here use a C harp. I guess I'm the welcomer after all.
Take a look at the FAQs page on this website, if you haven't already. I address, early on, the question of which harp keys a beginner should get.
Last Edited by on Oct 13, 2010 5:24 PM
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Kyzer Sosa
834 posts
Oct 13, 2010
5:29 PM
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whoa there doc! i dont wonder why you hold up your harp, first off, you dont do it all that much. maybe 5-10 times in 200 vids that i can remember. perhaps i should be more clear: the OP was aimed at players; people who arent addressing students...or who are just playing to show what theyve just learned. people whos skill set is closer to my own...
bottom line? well it was just something i noticed in abundance, while viewing student youtube clips yesterday.
i do like to flank tho, (thanks dad), but only so often and very quietly, with amazing ferocity. thats not the case here at all.
now, back to the promo poster....
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eharp
839 posts
Oct 13, 2010
5:37 PM
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first time i saw it, i was expecting a magic trick.
they were doing it while the bt was going and they were waiting for their part.
i hoped they were gonna make it disappear.
(after hearing some of these folks, i wish they had made it disappear.)
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kudzurunner
1929 posts
Oct 14, 2010
7:08 AM
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Kyser: As you'll see from my first point above, I concede your point, and I have no hard feelings towards you at all. Quite the reverse. No, I agree that the harp hold-up (as I'll call it) has become a bit of a cliche.
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DanP
152 posts
Oct 14, 2010
8:28 AM
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I don't see anything wrong with someone holding up the harp and letting people know what key of harp he or she is using if the video is directed at beginners. Some people who are starting out don't know that there's a wide disparity in quality between a $5 harp and $50 harp and some don't even know that harmonicas come in different keys. And even more don't know that if they're playing in a position other than 1st that they're playing in a differnt key than what's stamped on the harp.
Last Edited by on Oct 14, 2010 8:31 AM
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barbequebob
1336 posts
Oct 14, 2010
9:44 AM
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Unfortunately, even if you tell some people out loud and augment with signs (AKA queue cards), it never ceases to amaze me how many people just flat out don't pay attention and will ask all the questions about what harps, this or that and anything else you're using even if you gave them the entire "bible" of what you were doing.
I can't telly you how many times I've told people what to listen to and how someone or myself got certains they were playing from and then the listener asks about how the harp player did it even tho I broke it down for them in detail.
Unfortunately, some people epitomize the classic Three Stooges line, "I'm so broke I can't afford to pay attention!" Some people have unbelievably tiny attention spans.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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gene
572 posts
Oct 14, 2010
10:43 AM
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Odd, isn't it? It used to be that if you wanted to know something, you'd dig into the encyclopedia or go to the library and spend a lot of time going through the shelves, getting help from the librarian if needed, take notes, etc.
Now we have all the information in the world right here in front of us and so many people won't even click the "More Info" button.
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Honkin On Bobo
407 posts
Oct 14, 2010
11:27 AM
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"Odd, isn't it? It used to be that if you wanted to know something, you'd dig into the encyclopedia or go to the library and spend a lot of time going through the shelves, getting help from the librarian if needed, take notes, etc.
Now we have all the information in the world right here in front of us and so many people won't even click the "More Info" button. "
Great point. Studies are now being done on the "internet generation" and whether on balance the explosion of info (much of it of dubious veracity and depth) availability has improved or detracted from critical thinking skills. Fascinating subject actually, but way OT and guaranteed to end in a locked thread....so i'll shall now shut up.
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gmacleod15
88 posts
Oct 14, 2010
1:16 PM
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OK two things about this thread
1. I like seeing other harmonicas and getting a sense of what they look and sound like.
2. The best part of this thread is what Nacoran said:
"Whenever I find the key for a song in my media library I add it to the metadata. I've moved the 'key' column right next to the song title. That way at least I only have to spend half the song figuring out the key once per song"
I thought there must be a way to do this. I have most song keys memorized but sometimes a reminder is good. Thanks for this. In case anywone else want to do this just use the "comments" column.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
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nacoran
2995 posts
Oct 14, 2010
2:01 PM
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gmacleaod, you don't even need to use the comments column. There is a key column, you just have to select it. It's not set as displayed as default. (Right click on the column section and you will see the option to choose columns.) The next fun step is you can sort songs by key, although being a computer it is a little literal about it, so if you don't write the key the same way each time it will come back to bite you- Bb isn't the same as B-flat! Even if it is. :)
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Nate
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JTThirty
91 posts
Oct 14, 2010
5:10 PM
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I'm just gonna thrust out my cell phone and play the 'ring tone' harp notes that I recorded--whenever I get around to making a 'playing head' vid, I can simply say, "Sony Ericsson" (sidekick to Hop Magu). And no, I can't afford an iPhone.
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