RunsWithScissors
34 posts
Oct 11, 2010
3:16 PM
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Thanks, BBQBob
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In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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scojo
138 posts
Oct 11, 2010
3:21 PM
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Todd: INCONCEIVABLE!
[Princess Bride reference for those of you who wonder what the hell I am talking about.]
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nacoran
2954 posts
Oct 11, 2010
3:35 PM
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If someone starts picking a fight with you in a bar the best move is to buy him a drink. You can call the police later or extract your revenge when he's passed out drunk.
I was watching a show with Hunter Whatshisname, and that was basically the advice the instructor gave him.
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Nate
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TNFrank
425 posts
Oct 11, 2010
3:37 PM
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"Todd: INCONCEIVABLE!
[Princess Bride reference for those of you who wonder what the hell I am talking about.]"
I totally love that movie. How did ya' know?
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Suzuki HarpMaster in C
Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E and F
Hohner Old Standby in A
Hohner Special 20 in Bb
Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb,C and D
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6SN7
96 posts
Oct 11, 2010
3:58 PM
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@BBQ Bob: you got that right. If you are in the game long enough, something bizarre will happen.
We got double booked one night, neither of the bands had documents that you speak of. We flipped a coin, we lost and went across the street for martinis.
Another time, the club owner started giving me a line after the first set that the gate receipts were poor/ bar was slow routine and that he'd have to cut back on the pay. I told the band and they said go talk to him again. So I did. It was friutless, but it turned out he had played guitar as a kid and always wanted to play in a band but had to work. So I said, You can play with us, but you got to pay us and he did just that! LOL!
what all this self defense shit on this thread? Are you guys nuts?
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ness
302 posts
Oct 11, 2010
4:25 PM
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I've never not been paid for playing.
But there have been plenty of times I haven't been paid when it comes to work (at the bank).
Spell out what you expect upfront -- in writing. And, get something of value in your control to insure you get paid. Stack the odds in your favor. Don't count on muscle to get what's yours. That's stupid.
I'll let you musicians figure out the details, but those are the guidelines.
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John
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Littoral
120 posts
Oct 11, 2010
4:30 PM
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Ok, smack about I'll do this or that if I don't get paid but what about the situation where you try to let it go because the guy was a friend who was having a lot trouble? I tried to do the right thing.
His name is Gabriel Butterfield. Yes, Butterfield.
Was I a Dumb Ass?
Evidently I was because it happened again and he became Adams category 1 (avoiding me at all cost). Over and Over again he avoided me. What's next? Id rather not do what I want to do and risk the law (small town & I'm a teacher) but I'm seriously pissed off. The money is one thing, about $300, but the disrespect is another thing all together. People know it happened and sure, the rep is catching up to him, but that's bullshit and nothing to me.
I don't forget. Maybe I should. I don't.
I want my money.
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Littoral
121 posts
Oct 11, 2010
4:50 PM
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Thanks Christian. That's really special, by the way.
(edit: misread the guy who over blows)
The final chapter is coming.
Last Edited by on Oct 11, 2010 5:41 PM
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Buddha
2560 posts
Oct 11, 2010
5:33 PM
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@littoral
I didn't call you a p****, I said that to ness.
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"I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
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Hobostubs Ashlock
1142 posts
Oct 11, 2010
5:35 PM
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yea im a firm beliver in violence and getting paid.I Usually dont get burned on anything cause when you look me in the eye's face to face when you have pissed me off,you will understand.Im not big or bad i do belive in karma and never burn nobody,and i am crazy.
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KrazoDick
4 posts
Oct 11, 2010
5:57 PM
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So name calling and foul language are back in vogue as long as we replace most of the letters with a bunch of G** d*** f****** asterisks? Hey NOD, take note!
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nacoran
2958 posts
Oct 11, 2010
8:20 PM
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Krazo, foul language with ***'s in it is better than without, but it should be used sparingly. I see references to name calling, but I can find the quote.
Don't take this the wrong way, but are you a sock puppet?
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Nate
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KrazoDick
5 posts
Oct 11, 2010
9:08 PM
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@nacoran: Musashi has conveniently deleted his original "p****" post (posted just after 4:30pm) but makes reference to it in his post at 5:33pm. To bad you missed it, I was hoping all h*** would break loose!
Yes I am Mr. Hyde :)
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Buddha
2561 posts
Oct 11, 2010
9:35 PM
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I didn't delete anything. It was one of the mods standing high on a pedestal
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"I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
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KrazoDick
6 posts
Oct 11, 2010
9:44 PM
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@Buddha: Sorry, my bad.
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nacoran
2965 posts
Oct 11, 2010
10:22 PM
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It wasn't me. If I delete something I make a point of noting that I deleted something.
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Nate
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LittleJoeSamson
449 posts
Oct 11, 2010
10:53 PM
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I've been on both ends. Still am. Underpaid performer ( use of typical Chicago charm usually works wonders. Speak politely and carry a big gun. )
As a producer in today's dicey environment, I book good talent, and guarantee what I am comfortable with. I never, NEVER pre=pay. I had too many no-shows or sideways drunks. When i don't pre-pay, if they don't show, they're scratched off my list permanent. If they show up drunk or stoned, They're cut from the show. No excuses.
Sometimes, immediately after, some cats need bones to get to the next gig. I front them what I can if they played good and did not hog . I typically get extra from the venues when I cajole that I have other places that want my services ( a competitor down the road ). This results in added revenues that I then distribute and make musicians happy.
We should not have to be this way. It should be all upfront. Don't mind playing it this way, though.
My co-producer looks like the tough guy, but is a cuddly Teddy Bear. He'll play bad cop, though. Then, if things get hinky, he'll say< "Man...you don't want to upset my partner (me). The guys a PSYCHO ! It's all I can do to keep the guy from busting ME ! "
Then, I give a Bruce Dern sneer and blank stare.
We get our way.
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ness
303 posts
Oct 12, 2010
5:34 AM
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Well hell. I guess I missed it. How am I supposed to know whether I should be laughing or $%^&ing p#%%$#?
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John
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Buzadero
577 posts
Oct 12, 2010
7:07 AM
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The older I get, the dirtier I fight. -- G. Hughes
Amen.
Or, as a mentor of my youth used to quip:
"Rules is for fools"
and, the oft used:
"Fightin in front of a crowd ain't fightin, it's dancing with a winner and a loser"
This, from a guy who delivered to me the most bruises and aches I cumulatively ever received from another human being that wasn't one of my siblings.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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joshnat
69 posts
Oct 12, 2010
10:21 AM
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I posted the opposite last week, about getting paid NOT to play, but we've had plenty of experiences like this. Our singer used to be married to one of the Hell's Angels (until he died) and they can often be helpful in making sure we get paid. Intimidation can provide a lot of leverage. Bounced checks, "manager went home," non-collection of cover charges, etc. all come into the mix at one time or another. Incidentally, we play private parties often for the Angels, and we never know if we're going to get paid. They usually come up with something for us. They also never clap. But, I understand, they're very clear when they DON'T like you. We've been fortunate so far.
Interesting also about the Krav Maga. My other part time gig is as an Aikido sensei at my dojo in the Boston area. We were at a gig in Everett, MA a few months ago, where a very large man grabbed a somewhat large woman (whom he didn't know) in a choke hold. What did Aikido sensei do? Kept on playing, while our singer (another largish woman) dropped the mic and ran at the guy. She's also the bouncer in the bar where she works. Moral of the story: training is training and life is life.
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barbequebob
1327 posts
Oct 12, 2010
10:48 AM
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When booking private parties, the first rule of thumb and I make VERY FEW exceptions, is that I demand a 50% deposit right upfront, and I also tell the client both verbally as well as on the contract/letter of confirmation that this is NOT refundable and the deposit must come in a timely manner, and I usually give them no more than 3 weeks from the calendar date agreed upon, which will also be listed in the contract/LOC.
I also do not book such gigs like that within weeks or a month of that date they ask, and usually want a date, if I'm available, at least 2-4 months in advance and if you are getting requested to play a gig like that where they want it to happen in less than a month from the time they request it, it usually spells trouble.
As far as taking checks for these, I flat out refuse to take ANY personal checks with no exceptions, and it's either cash or postal money order (few problems, if any from those).
One thing I should add when it comes to booking gigs to help prevent bad stuff from going down is something too many players often DON'T do and it is VERY important that you do it without fail is to reconfirm EVERYTHING, and that means every single detail of the agreement and in the business end, one thing I've learned is that NO detail is too small to cover or let slip.
When should one reconfirm??? Gigs can be booked anywhere from as little as 2 months in advance to as much as 18 months in advance (GB gigs can be booked as far advanced as 5 years), so the best way to do it is get in touch with the contact, first time doing it at least 1-2 months in advance of the contracted date, then 2 weeks, and then within 24 hours of the date.
Another thing to mention in the contract/LOC is that ANY and ALL adjustments to it must be made IN WRITING ONLY with a signed agreement by BOTH parties and the latest ANYTHING can be changed is no later than 2 weeks prior to the date booked.
Going the violence route might be great for stroking one's macho ego, but a big reality check here is that more often than not, especially if a case has to come to court, you wind up being on the losing end 9 times out of 10 and when police get involved, and the club owner is well connected with them, you wind up shooting yourself in the foot.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Hobostubs Ashlock
1151 posts
Oct 12, 2010
11:35 AM
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You can tell that BBQbob been around the block,his answer seem so professional,And i do agree about the getting yourself into more trouble than its worth by getting violent.aint your 1st rodeo,Ive seen alot of people in my family and friends have court cost and jail time all because of temper,and getting burned a few bucks thats good advise BBQBob
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barbequebob
1328 posts
Oct 12, 2010
12:56 PM
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@Walterharp --- Thank goodness you dealt with someone who was reputable because I've seen things like that turn out real bad.
I once had a situation where I was double booked and both bands had a contract/letter of confirmation (the owner screwed on this one royally) and so what we wound up doing was look at the date when the contract/letter of confirmation was actually written, and since the other band had a date that was 3 weeks earlier, then legally the gig was his.
The owner felt really bad about it and this venue was also a really phenomenol restaurant and so not only did he give us half pay (the right thing to do), he also fed us on the house and the steak dinner I had, man that thing was so tender you didn't even need a knife to cut it. We did rebook us and things were cool until the city closed him down by eminent domain.
One thing I should add about sending out a contract/letter of confirmation is that as soon as you get off the phone and/or discuss all details in person, within 72 hours MAX, have the contract/LOC completed and sent out ASAP by both email AND snail mail, and if the venue and you both have faxes, in addition, send out a fax as well. Why?? By doing that, the owner/agent/talent buyer can NOT say that they never got it and you've killed any dumb excuses they may give.
BTW, if you're playing full time, you also come under the heading of being self employed and these things, including the postage, your phone bill, and a few other things are all tax deductible expenses.
Another reason why it's incredibly dumb to resort to violence is that club owners do speak to each other, comparing notes, and if word gets around about the violence, it will seriously lessen the chance of you getting hired.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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walterharp
479 posts
Oct 12, 2010
6:44 PM
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yeah, it could have been a lot worse.. the pa speaker blew over and missed my head and grazed the guitar players playing hand. as it was i got a free beer, hotdog, 3/4 of a local ball game. oh, and the wind whipped up a small sand storm from the infield and i had to clean the grit out of all my harps because my case was open at the time... :-(
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ZackPomerleau
1172 posts
Oct 12, 2010
10:49 PM
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Now, I don't do it, but Sandy, how would you know it doesn't work? Have you tried and gotten shot in the face?
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captin beef harp
53 posts
Oct 13, 2010
4:11 PM
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it always seems the blues and violence go hand in hand
little walter died that way guess he didnt get those scares from shaving.otis spann also and many more. its to bad people cant get passed it.i once had a knife pulled on me at lavida hot springs (sam pai kempo might know the place) well i was outside havin my happy smoke brake. so while tryin to control the tone in my overblow . i knew i had to think fast.
quickly i pulled two cigs from my pocket and held them like a cross to ward off a vampire at the same time laughing like curly in the stooges. well i had my opponet doubled over laughing in seconds. so we smoked the peace pipe. plan b would have been to run like hell most folks cant run a mile if you can run 3 or 4 you can run one fast they wont catch ya. any teacher that would teach someone to try to take a gun or knife just wants your money and is full of horse s@#4t. i am an expert in this art. as i pick up horse sh@#t for a living.
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OzarkRich
267 posts
Oct 14, 2010
7:39 PM
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I've posted this before but since we're on the subject:
Harp Attack
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Ozark Rich
__________
##########
Ozark Rich's YouTube
Ozark Rich's Facebook
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9000
35 posts
Oct 15, 2010
3:19 PM
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I was really hoping to see that Adam got paid by now! I like to think the best of folks when it comes to human beings!
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kudzurunner
1936 posts
Oct 15, 2010
6:47 PM
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I have not yet been paid. I like to think the best of folks when it comes to human beings, too, but if a guy named Scott Cotsmire ever calls you up and says, "Hey, I'd like you to play my festival," it would be a good idea to say No, thanks.
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9000
37 posts
Oct 15, 2010
6:52 PM
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I heard that! Screw me once...my fault. Screw me twice....
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barbequebob
1349 posts
Oct 15, 2010
9:10 PM
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@Kudzurunner --- Unfortunately, that`s why I firmly believe in what an old pro told me what his philosophy, "In God I trust, and everybody else is cash money" rings true as well as "a wise man is a fool that`s been burned enough times to know better" rings so true. BTW, do you have anything at all in writing in your dealings with this fool?
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Kyzer Sosa
840 posts
Oct 15, 2010
9:30 PM
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i cant offer you up any advice, as ive yet to be paid to play, but i can say this. I am not a small fellow. i inherited a caveman like brow from my father and arms and shoulders to match. im often accused of being pissed off when im very much not. it has been a curse in that regard, but a blessing in many others.
not to say that your runners frame and warm persona is the cause for his deception. but i know that ive used whatever alleged or... assumed mental and physical attributes people have of me to my advantage.
i guess what im trying to say is, i know you wish no ill will on the guy, other than to let others know he's not someone to work for, but next time, when in doubt, bring a big ole boy with you when you make dealings for payment.
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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nacoran
3005 posts
Oct 15, 2010
9:41 PM
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Sam, try saying that when someone brings a chair in the ring. ;)
I was on the wrestling team one year back in school. I decided I didn't like being made into a pretzel so I didn't go out for the team the next year.
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Nate
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Miles Dewar
474 posts
Oct 15, 2010
10:00 PM
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Yes nacoran, I would also be scared facing an actor with a chair onstage. :)
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Miles Dewar
475 posts
Oct 16, 2010
9:01 AM
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THE absolute best self defense or combat strategy is, not putting yourself in those situations.
The situations just don't come as readily as some say. Not if you're walking through Chicago Heights all day knocking on most doors, or Gary Indiana. It might look "Spooky" but people have not seemed so quick to start trouble.
Only ONCE has someone randomly attacked me while out knocking on doors. I'm there for at least 6 hours in each town. I come across lots of "greezy" looking people. But they are usually just as nice as any other person.
Usually a smile and a hello help.
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barbequebob
1351 posts
Oct 16, 2010
9:21 AM
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This stuff with the violence and martial arts on this thread is really ridiculousy OFF TOPIC!!!
Anyway, to get more into the focus. One thing many people believe if you have a booking agent, your worries are over, well, that may be fine if you're at a point where you are a much bigger draw and you have one who is competant with a helluva good reputation among other artists, but thinking that you don't have to reconfirm everything that you've been told or what's listed on the contract is thinking VERY FOOLISHLY. Why??? Even if you have an agent, you still HAVE to reconfirm EVERYTHING because some agents can be real dunderheads (and I'm putting it VERY nicely here) and things can change quicker than you think, and this includes, if there is any involved, the lodging, be it cheapo motel, or more expensive hotel because those have to be followed up upon.
The idea of following up on everything is something nearly every manager of ANY business is taught to do because if you don't do it, things can get out of hand and messed up in a heartbeat and obviously screw ups DO happen and you have to be prepared for it. When I was once an assistant store manager in an auto parts store, this was drilled into my head daily during management training and every bit of advice about that definitely did come true.
Sure, belief that everyone can be trusted is nice, but in the business end of things, being TOO trusting as well as too nice can get you royally burned like hell.
@Kudzurunner --- I don't know how much personal experience you have hands on in the area of bandleading and booking bands (I'm NOT trying to diss you at all), but the idea of trusting everything to always be right no matter what can get you burned quickly. One of the things in a contract/letter of confirnmation should always state on the very SAME line that the amount of pay is listed on there is one VERY important sentence, "to be paid in cash (or check if approved by both parties in writing only) immediately at the conclusion of the artist's performance." Why that sentence?? The minute he holds up paying you for any reason, he automatically had just broken the agreement and he is legally liable and if you have to take this fool to court, he cannot weasel his way out of it.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Barry C.
13 posts
Oct 16, 2010
9:32 AM
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Simple philosophy we follow...either roll with the punches or don't play-out (also nice to have someone rather large in the band...makes for much quicker collections!).
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~Banned in Boston!
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Diggsblues
563 posts
Oct 16, 2010
10:00 AM
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I'm remember going to collect money
once a few days after a gig. When we walked
in I remember a guy leaving the club with blood
running down his face. I noticed the club owner had a
black jack in his hand. Scary stuff. Now a lot of places are small corporations and don't deal like that.
Too much liablility.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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