Xpun3414
8 posts
Oct 03, 2010
5:04 PM
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Hi everyone,
I just got my new harp,a Hohner Marine Band 1896/20,
Just yesterday (Saturday October 2nd). Well,by this afternoon, (the 3rd) I noticed something strange with it.
The wood in between the holes from 8 down to the 1 are poped out. Not gone,but protruding out instead of being flush or sunk in. It wasn't like that in the am, but by about 5pm I noticed it. Took it out of the case to play it,& it felt weird to my lips.I looked & there it was, all those wood pieces popping out. What the heck is going on !!?! TO me that is quit strange to have happen, so I had to post about it. Gonna go exchange it in the am I guess :( ....
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eharp
823 posts
Oct 03, 2010
5:06 PM
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the wood has swollen.
it will shrink back to normal.
try not to get the comb as wet when you play by keeping your head up.
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Xpun3414
9 posts
Oct 03, 2010
5:26 PM
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Its a plastic comb. The popping out is like in a wave from 8 to 1 very slightly,a bit more..a bit more.. I just cut my lip ! ..a little less..a little less. Between the holes 2/3 - 3/4 & 4/5 are the worst. I cant even play it now :(
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eharp
824 posts
Oct 03, 2010
5:34 PM
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marine bands use a pearwood comb that is only partially sealed.
perhaps you could post some pics for us.
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Xpun3414
10 posts
Oct 03, 2010
5:38 PM
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I'd love to,but dont know how to post em here yet.
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nacoran
2888 posts
Oct 03, 2010
5:54 PM
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Um, it's a plastic comb but the wood is sticking out? I'm confused? If the tines on the comb are wood, the comb is wood. That's a standard Marine Band. The back and the sides will be black, but the front tan. The finish looks awful on them. It might look plastic! If the whole comb is black and plastic it's a Marine Band Special 20.
It sounds like a regular Marine Band with swelling issues, like eharp says. Some people take a razor blade and shave the part that sticks out off. Other people take the harps apart and sand down and seal the combs, or you can order custom combs already sealed, or made out of other materials.
edit: Watch one of the videos on how to do it first! The only harp work I can reliably do is gap my harps and unscrew harps with screws!
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Nate
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Last Edited by on Oct 03, 2010 6:07 PM
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eharp
826 posts
Oct 03, 2010
5:57 PM
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dont do any of the recommended solutions without getting more in depth info from nacoran, others on this forum, or other forums.
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nacoran
2889 posts
Oct 03, 2010
6:03 PM
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Xpun, posting pictures here isn't too hard, but it takes a couple steps. This site doesn't host pictures, so you'll need to find another site to host it. Flikr and Photobucket host photos for free. Dropbox is another easy way to share photos, although you have to download a some free software. For Photobucket or Flikr simply go to their sites and get an account. Then follow their instructions for uploading a picture. Once you do that, right click on the photo and select 'Copy Photo URL'. Depending on what web browser you are using it may say something slightly different. (If you chose Dropbox it will put a folder on your desktop. Copy and Paste the picture into the public folder into in the dropbox folder. Then right click on the file. You will see an option for Dropbox. Scroll to that and click on 'Copy Public Link')
Once you have either the photo URL or the public link from dropbox, insert it in the middle of this code
<img src="http://www.abc.com/anyPicture.jpg"> -
Replace everything between the quotation marks with the url. Then post. :)
If you have any problems, let me know and I'll try to help you trouble shoot it.
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Nate
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nacoran
2890 posts
Oct 03, 2010
6:08 PM
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eharp, yeah, definitely. Yeah, there are videos showing how to do it right. Anyone should watch one of those videos first. I don't, as a rule, play wooden combed harps. I'm only qualified to point people to those videos, not to give them instructions!
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Nate
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TNFrank
324 posts
Oct 03, 2010
8:01 PM
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THIS is why I don't even want to mess with a wooden comb.
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Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb and D
Hohner Special 20 in Bb
Suzuki HarpMaster in C
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rpoe
213 posts
Oct 03, 2010
8:30 PM
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Assuming it's wood, really not a big deal. 1 out of 10 woodened combed harps of mine have swelled as described. Depends on how much I've been slobbering.
Simple fix to trim but wouldn't until after a few cycles of wettin' and dryin'. Let it settle.
As a beg to intermediate player (won't classify myself past this until I get out and jam) having done as all do (searched the world over tryng to find true love...or harp of choice), I now prefer the wood over the plastic for the style I like to play. Not gonna even mention which brand or model :)
Note I do enjoy working on my own harmonicas. Goes back to my working on my school-owned bass clarinet. Learned how to change pads, adjust keys, etc..
Sorry, I'm rambling. Good luck.
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Rob
Rob's Tube
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RyanMortos
833 posts
Oct 03, 2010
8:31 PM
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"THIS is why I don't even want to mess with a wooden comb" (TNFrank).
Don't blame yah. Unless it's been polished to death with a real fine seal by someone like Buddha I'm sticking to sealed combs: metal, plastic, bamboo maybe. I don't get the people that prefer them unsealed. I mean, there must be some people that like this stuff happening or they'd buy other harmonicas, heh. Not like I couldn't tune a seydel or suzuki or any other hohner harmonica to the same tuning as a marine band so no argument there.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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rpoe
214 posts
Oct 03, 2010
9:59 PM
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In the end, it's what floats your boat. Adam's a great example of one that does pretty damn well with OOB wooden-combed Marine Bands, unsealed. Buy his latest CD.
The comb doesn't need to be polished to death to be considered sealed. Again, it's preferences and perceptions unique to each of us based on our style of playing and experiences.
Not worth arguing about :)
As noted, I enjoy, as many others do, the hands-on experience I have with my harmonicas. I can understand those who don't and whom would argue they'd rather be playing than working under the hood like a hot rod enthusiast so to speak. The fun to some is ripping around the track versus working on the machine.
FYI - I dig Sp20's (plastic) but prefer MB's and Solist Pro's for now. It's all subject to change.
So, to answer your question, post pics to confirm what your describing and it can be taken care of.
Happy harpin'
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Rob
Rob's Tube
Last Edited by on Oct 03, 2010 11:00 PM
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arzajac
366 posts
Oct 04, 2010
7:15 AM
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For me, it's worth the hassle.
Not that any of my combs have swollen to that degree, but it obviously happens. It sucks for the random harmonica player who hasn't played a Marine Band that plays well. People jump to the conclusion that Marine Bands are crap.
It probably works the opposite, too. If your first Marine Band is one of that that plays really really well, you tend to be more forgiving of subsequent Marine Bands you buy that are sub-par.
As I mentioned, it's worth the hassle for me. I have recently been playing with taking Marine Bands apart and sanding the combs and draw reed plate smooth (as flat as I can get it without any special equipment) The sound and playability are not believable. Once I found that, I'm spoiled - The Special 20 that I thought plays really well doesn't play *that* well and it sounds like it's coming from a tin can.
But, like rpoe, I like working on my own harps.
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Xpun3414
11 posts
Oct 04, 2010
10:59 AM
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Well, It is a wooden comb. @ nacoran = yes that is just how my harp looks, black on the sides & front & wood/brown on the back. But I have to say... it does feel like plastic. After researching on the net & all the input here I guess it is a wooden comb. Ive only been playing it for 2 days,& not tooo heavy playing either,So I really dont get why it swelled so badly in such a short tyme. I'll post the pics soon & post the link here in a bit. I was thinking of just going back & getting it replaced. It really seems strange that it would swell so badly & so quickly. I am tooo new at dealing w/harps to do any kind of work to them. Im only about 2 months in.
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barbequebob
1279 posts
Oct 04, 2010
12:27 PM
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As far as the wood swelling, it it's happening, then the comb is not sealed at all, first of all. Two other things to consider is that:
A.) you may be playing with a VERY excessive amount of breath force and most players who do that have a tendency to play with a very wet mouth.
B. The other thing to consider is where on the tree was the wood cut. If the wood was cut too close to the knot of the tree, if it isn't fully sealed, it will swell quicker than if it was cut closer to the bark of the tree.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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nacoran
2896 posts
Oct 04, 2010
12:57 PM
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The knot of the tree? I thought that's where the branches notch off. Do you mean heartwood? Huh, no burl wood then.
I pine for something pithy to say that wood knot go against the grain. Oakay, I keep trying until I get board. I know, you are all sycamore of my jokes. I don't want to make an ash of myself so yew need cut me off before I go out on a limb. I'll root around in my trunk until I find some sap to laugh at my jokes. Don't try to make me leaf. Don't worry folks, my bark is worse than my bite.
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Nate
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barbequebob
1281 posts
Oct 04, 2010
1:05 PM
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@Nacoron --- I see bad Three Stooges jokes a comin'!!! Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk!!! (LOL)
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Xpun3414
13 posts
Oct 04, 2010
1:43 PM
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@ nacoran - Lmao.. thats way too funny.
Ok everyone, it seems that letting it sit for a day,is helping to make the swelling go down. Now my question is this... Now that the wood is receding Im really worried about leakage. cause the swelling was god awful. Its brand new & Im so new to playin' that I worry about the seal now. Am I being overly concerned or is it a legit worry? & will the wood swell again ? :(
@ barbequebob - no wet mouth & no excessive amount of breath force. Ive really been focused on technique & tryin' to avoid thoes things. I deiced right from the start,that I would learn good techniques & really listen to all the experienced harp players.I went into this with a truly opened mind. Sad thing is : there arent really ANY harp players around here to pick their brain,so its the net & forums. kinda hampers it a bit,but thats ok.. I now have you guys here ;) Thank you all :)
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Stickman
445 posts
Oct 04, 2010
2:13 PM
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Xpun this is a very common problem that mainly only effects the Marine Band 1896. If you use the search tool you will see many threads dedicated to this problem and what to do about it. If you are a really new player dont worry so much about leakage right now. Focus on playing and figuring out how to seal your hap. Don't let this turn you off to wood combs. Other harps like Hohner's Blues Harp are usually sealed as well as the more expensive Marine Bands
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The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
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nacoran
2898 posts
Oct 04, 2010
2:22 PM
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Wood combed harps may get leaky over time from contracting and expanding. If it's a real problem with a particular harp the solution is probably taking it apart and either resealing the comb or replacing the comb. With a Marine Band you have a little more work since it uses nails, but it's not too bad. I've just been learning to take MB's apart myself. You can swap over to screws when they put them back together if you want. The nails are tiny, so you may want to do it with a magnet handy so they don't get away from you and land point up in your pile carpet! If you decide to go that route, there are a bunch of good instruction videos that will walk you through it. It's not tough for just a swap.
Fortunately, I don't think you are going to do any damage to the harp, except loosening up the seal a bit, with expanding and contracting, and replacing the comb will fix that, so until the harp starts having playability problems the only real problem is what it may do to your lip! There are some guys on this forum who make some gorgeous combs for reasonable prices, or you can go the DIY route. (Making your own combs is beyond my tool set, both real tools and skill wise).
If it turns out you are a slobberer, there are always harps that come with plastic combs. (Having just tried my first MB I've got to say though, they do have a nice sound.)
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Nate
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arzajac
367 posts
Oct 04, 2010
4:06 PM
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"Now that the wood is receding Im really worried about leakage. cause the swelling was god awful."
The problem is that this is your first (or one of the first) real harp, correct? It took me a little time to gain some experience to know exactly what leakage feels like. At two months in, learning to bend was hard enough. I knew one of my harps was harder to play then the other, but I didn't know why.
Some leakage can be fixed with gapping, but if the leakage is caused by your comb, there is no fix other than sanding it down and sealing it (or replacing it - I think Buddha sells combs for $10 plus shipping).
So will your harp leak after this case of swelling? Maybe. If probably has leaked a lot since day one, too and unless you have played a very airtight harp, you will not know what that feels like.
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Xpun3414
14 posts
Oct 04, 2010
8:07 PM
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@ arzajac - yes,this is my first,"real",harp. My first harp is a Hohner GLH (Great Little Harp)in a key of C for 8 bucks. I got that back in mid July & by now it was just time to get a "real" harp. Love the sound of my MB over my GLH. Wow what a difference. Btw,the GLH is a plastic comb.
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Rubes
127 posts
Oct 05, 2010
2:24 AM
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BBQ Bob is right. I've two newish 1896's that I play regularly, and they both show only the tiniest signs of swelling(not near enough to affect anything)and I've tweaked them a little and they're fine playin' harps! but I've had two Steve Baker specials (14 hole Marine Bands) in a row whose comb did exactly the same as yours!!! I feel the SBS's have been cut close to the knot........... I'm still looking for a comb for that SBS! :~)
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Xpun3414
15 posts
Oct 05, 2010
7:57 AM
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Ok guys,question. If I do shave down the parts that arent receding, what do I use for a sealer? & do I have to take apart the whole harp or can I just shave down the parts with out unassumingly ? Update : I have just noticed that the wood in between the holes is now shitable. I just touched the wood just to see how it was going on the receding & sure enough,the wood is shiting side to side... So I suppose I have to just send it back to Hohner ? Or is this normal since its swelled ?
Last Edited by on Oct 05, 2010 8:39 AM
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barbequebob
1282 posts
Oct 05, 2010
8:49 AM
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@Rubes --- thinking that it only happens to the SBS combs is a TOTALLY incorrect assumption because it happens with ALL wood combs on any model and I've seen the pearwood combs on the MB's swell quick and some almost not at all so assuming it happens on one model only is COMPLETELY false.
@Stickman --- The MS Blues Harp combs are NOT sealed at all and NEVER have been, even when it was made prior to the introduction of the Hohner MS series in 1992 (the orginal version used the same pearwood comb that the Marine Band and pre-1990 Old Standby models used). The wood being used on that model isn't pearwood, which MB/MBD's have been using for over a century (and prior to that, peachwood). The wood on the MS Blues Harp is made of a trpocial African wood called doussie, which is a much harder wood that resists swelling, but these do swell, but more difficult to for it to happen but the drawback is that they can be very brittle.
The Marine Band Deluxe uses the same wood as the standard MB, which is pearwood, but it is partially sealed, meaning only around the outer edges and it can still swell in the hands of someone who plays too hard and plays with a wet mouth slobbering all over it).
The Marine Band Crossover is FULLY sealed, as is the Bends Juke, Seydel 1847 Classic, Seydel Solist.
Another thing to consider in the case of swelling is the area where you live. Why? If you live in an area with a very dry climate like in Arizona, wood swells quite easily unless it's fully sealed and the same is true if you live in high altitude areas as well. In an area with more humidity.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Oct 05, 2010 8:50 AM
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TNFrank
336 posts
Oct 05, 2010
9:04 AM
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The Manji is suppose to have a composite comb that has the sound of wood without all the problems associated with it. Rockin' Rons has Manji harps for just under $45 bucks which sounds like a pretty good deal for a high end harp.
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Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb and D
Hohner Special 20 in Bb
Suzuki HarpMaster in C
Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E and F
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barbequebob
1284 posts
Oct 05, 2010
1:32 PM
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The Manji composite comb actually has wood chips in its mixture, which is radically different than what most composite combs tend to be.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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nacoran
2906 posts
Oct 05, 2010
2:23 PM
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A bunch of the guys use Butcher's Block sealant to seal it up. There are a couple other things that work. Some people use bees wax, which is fine unless you leave your harp on the dash of your car. It has to be a food save material, since you will be sticking it in your mouth. Someone posted a couple weeks ago with a specific brand of sealant that was good. Some have additives that aren't good for you. Anyone remember what thread that was?
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Nate
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Stickman
449 posts
Oct 05, 2010
5:52 PM
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@ barbequebob. What is the shiny gloss coat on the outside of the comb on my Blues Harps then?
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The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
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barbequebob
1286 posts
Oct 05, 2010
9:19 PM
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@Stickman --- Clear coat paint. All wood combs have some sort of paint on them. The reason why Hohner went to Doussie rather than pearwood was to avoid sealing the comb, which would`ve added to the production line costs (and this was confirmed to me by now retired Hohner product manager Rick Epping). Hering was the first company to offer a stock diatonic with a sealed (tho only partially sealed) comb when it introduced the Hering 1923 Vintage Harp in 2003. Because of its success in putting a pretty good sized dent in MB sales, it forced Hohner to come out with the MB Deluxe using all screws and a partially sealed comb in 2005. When Seydel introduced the 1847 Classic with a fully sealed maple comb (first stock diatonic on the market to have that) in 2007, Hohner came out with it`s only fully sealed wood combed diatonic when it introduced the MB Crossover a little over a year ago.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Oct 05, 2010 9:23 PM
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Stickman
450 posts
Oct 06, 2010
2:07 AM
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So a clear coat is different from a sealed comb?
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The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
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barbequebob
1287 posts
Oct 06, 2010
4:03 AM
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Yes and for wood, paint of any kind is not a sealant. MB combs have paint on them and no sealing agent on them. Some sealing agents work better with certain woods and some woods won`t take any agents at all regardless of what it may be.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Joe_L
684 posts
Oct 06, 2010
8:30 AM
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Someone told me this a long time ago, if you don't spit into your harps, the wood won't swell.
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Xpun3414
66 posts
Nov 08, 2010
10:17 AM
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Ok,I thought it was a plastic comb cause of the front which has a black strip on it. but yeah..its wood alright. Need to buy a new comb,fully sealed..if any one can help I'd appreciate it
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nacoran
3191 posts
Nov 08, 2010
1:08 PM
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Xpun, check out the customizers list. If you click on the thread organizer link in my signature it will take you to a thread with a bunch of links, including my list of customizers. Not all the customizers make combs, but a bunch do.
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Nate
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