tookatooka
1705 posts
Sep 15, 2010
12:03 PM
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What do you think? I know it's cheating but you can't always have a band around when you want to play on the streets or anywhere else for that matter.
Anyone have any views regarding coyright etc for this situation?
I've got an unpaid gig Saturday if I want it, but the only way I could do it is to use a backing track which I have purchased.
Your thoughts please.
A few minutes later.
I Just thought about this further and an argument is thus. If a DJ can buy a record and play it to entertain people, what's to stop me from buying a backing track and adding to the value of the music (I hope) by playing along with it also on the premise of entertaining. Hmmm.
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2010 12:08 PM
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REM
5 posts
Sep 15, 2010
12:17 PM
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I've seen other buskers do it, I personally don't have any problem with it. Especially since it's an unpaid gig (you'll just be making tips), it's not like it a televised performance, so I don't think it's big deal.
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nacoran
2728 posts
Sep 15, 2010
12:29 PM
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As long as the backing track isn't harmonica I think your good. :)
I saw a band at open mic once that was basically airfesting to a track they had already prerecorded. That was kind of lame. There is also a young lady who used to show up with a backing track to sing over. She had a huge voice. She could go from sounding like Whitney Houston to sounding like Janis Joplin. There was also a metal singer who came in and sing over a tape of his band to promote a show. I'm not sure it worked for metal. It was kind of weird to see a guy screaming without a real band and it didn't work for the band that was faking it, but no one complained about the young lady, in fact she had people asking if they could play behind her the next time she showed up.
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Nate
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Diggsblues
515 posts
Sep 15, 2010
12:37 PM
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I think the BMI ASCAP payment is covered by the venue.
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How you doin'
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2010 12:38 PM
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toddlgreene
1785 posts
Sep 15, 2010
12:46 PM
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The street is liable for ASAP/BMI dues?;-)
Took-not sure if ASCAP or BMI(both are essentially the 'copyright police' for music)have jurisdiction(if that's the right word)outside the U.S.-but that's what Diggs is referring to. These organizations pay royalties to the artists when their music gets played.
I've seen street buskers with backup tracks plenty of times.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2010 12:57 PM
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Diggsblues
516 posts
Sep 15, 2010
12:52 PM
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You said it was a gig I presumed a building. If it's on
a clubs property outside or on their sidewalk your
still on the club or restaurants property. They bear
the responsibility for payment.
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How you doin'
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toddlgreene
1786 posts
Sep 15, 2010
12:55 PM
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I've been in a club once that stopped having live music unless it was all originals due to their not wanting to play ASCAP/BMI dues.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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tookatooka
1709 posts
Sep 15, 2010
1:02 PM
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OMG. It's a social evening in a hall. When they take a break to eat I was going to entertain them. About 150 of them. I'm in the UK. I won't be getting paid or touting for tips.
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toddlgreene
1787 posts
Sep 15, 2010
1:10 PM
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No sweat then. The above would only apply if you or the venue were profiting from the replay of licensed material. Even if that were the case, I doubt most backing tracks are licensed. The cd or jacket will say it if so. Have fun!
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2010 1:12 PM
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earlounge
151 posts
Sep 15, 2010
1:29 PM
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I've considered using a backing track at an open mic. I usually just wait around for them to play something "bluesy". It would be nice to actually perform to the best of my ability using something familiar. You have a legitimate concern. I can't bring myself to do it yet.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
1025 posts
Sep 15, 2010
1:56 PM
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ive thought about that about a year ago,but Waltertore inspired me to work on a 1man band for busking,now i got to firgure out where to busk,but i think it would help work on stage preasance
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Honkin On Bobo
374 posts
Sep 15, 2010
2:53 PM
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Well there are two levels to the question "is it OK?"
One is the ethical the other is the legal....then there's the practical...OK three levels.
On the ethical level..hey everybody has their own ethics...from my perspective I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean it's not like you're getting rich off somebody elses art/work.
On the legal level, yes someone owns the rights to that backing track, presumably. And so a royalty would be due them for a public perfromance using it (BTW that's true for any pubilc performance of a copyrighted song..so even if you're out there busking a little walter tune with no back up whatsoever, a royalty would be owed technically).
Now the practical...I find it highly unlikely that someone from BMI or ASCAP is going to track a busker down for a single performance and ask for payment. They usually go after club/bar owners who stage performances regularly. If someone's had a busking experience where the royalty police busted their balls I'd love to read about it.
I'm not an attorney so if you're really concerned I'd advise talking to one....hold on to your wallet.
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MrVerylongusername
1231 posts
Sep 15, 2010
3:21 PM
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Tooka, Diggs and Todd are right from a US perspective and the UK law is very similar: Any venue where music is played/performed to the public requires a PRS (Performing Rights Society) licence. The PRS has the same function in the UK as the ASCAP/BMI has in the States.
Any venue hosting large functions ought to have one, the info (in the form of the round PRS badge) should be displayed publicly.
Don't worry about it.
For performance, the responsibility is on the venue, not you. If you were distributing CDs, that would be different.
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2010 3:22 PM
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HarmonicaMick
133 posts
Sep 15, 2010
3:49 PM
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If it's just busking, I wouldn't worry, tooka. When it comes to street perfoming, I think that it's pretty much of the radar as far as copyright is concerned.
As for any artistic consideration, I think that's a purely personal and aesthetic choice. I don't like backing tracks in live performance; it's not live. But that's just my own artistic prejudice.
There is one other consideration. When I used to busk, I would cock up all the time and just carry on. A backing track can make it harder to hide your mistakes because you're governed by the beat and the changes on the track, unless, of course, it's something familiar like a 12 bar.
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nacoran
2731 posts
Sep 15, 2010
5:08 PM
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When I was in college I took a theater class. For the final project we had to put on a short play. Being an aspiring writer I happened to have one handy.
Well, I'd never put on a play before, and because we were just a class, not a proper production, we didn't get to practice on the stage, even although we'd be performing there for the final project. We had way too many props. The stage was cluttered and it was just a mess. Our lead actress was in a car accident a couple weeks before the end of the semester. She was still able to do the play but she missed a few practices. We had problems because we didn't realize how dark it was going to be back stage. The actors fumbled around in the dark trying get their cues. Things didn't go as well as we wanted. We wanted to get it right so we asked if we could do it again; we were really glad when the teacher said yes.
So on the second try, a couple days later, we tried to correct the mistakes we'd made the first time. My play had a series of dream sequences that were chronologically out of order. To tie it together, we had a narrator. Well, unfortunately, our narrator was scheduled for major oral surgery between the first performance and the retry. We thought we were going to be clever and have her record the narration part. Unfortunately, we'd still forgotten to bring a flashlight.
Things were going fine until the actors started doing the scenes out of order. I was up in the lighting booth trying to help the lighting person, the narration was out of sequence and I was still waiting to cue the music to end the play. I had to grab the script, kill the narration tape and start reading the narration.
At least the music came in on time!
It all worked out all right. I think the teacher was impressed that students at a community college were willing to redo something to get it right so we got a good grade.
So, after all that, what I really learned was this- sometimes a tape isn't as reliable as the real thing. Just make sure your whatever you have your backing track on is reliable.
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Nate
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KingoBad
380 posts
Sep 15, 2010
10:12 PM
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There are plenty of free use backing tracks that will accomplish everything you need. Just get some of them and you will have no problem.
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joeleebush
86 posts
Sep 16, 2010
5:36 AM
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Fortunately, the processes of the creative mind are not yet under the jurisdiction of the "nanny state thought police".
Just get out there, hustle, use whatever device you have and pick up a few $$$$$ if you can.
Good luck..I hope you make a bundle and KEEP it ALL!
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mercedesrules
20 posts
Sep 16, 2010
7:43 AM
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.....This discussion highlights the absurdity of "intellectual property" law. Digital information is not scarce so it can't have much value. When you "steal" someone's song, he still has it, unlike if you steal his cow. So, grandma is taxed so Metallica can stay home and party.
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lumpy wafflesquirt
241 posts
Sep 16, 2010
9:27 AM
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Tookatooka
I looked into the PRS licence when I was in a big band and we did in fact get one.
If you are playing indoors the venue must have a licence, if you are playing outside the performers must have a licence. [never di work out if a tet is indoor or outdoor] It is charged on a sliding scale referenceing the size of the band, the number of gigis per year etc.
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
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lumpy wafflesquirt
242 posts
Sep 16, 2010
9:29 AM
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I heard a busker a while ago in Hay on Wye with backing tracks and a squeeze box. he was really good. inspired me to start building up som backing tracks from band in a box ut I have yet to get enough to make it worthwhile... or pluck up the courage to go busing., but I might eventually take them down to the Open Mic
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
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tookatooka
1710 posts
Sep 16, 2010
12:43 PM
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OK Thanks folks the gig is on.
@ Lumpy. are you missing some keys on your keyboard because your words are getting chopped?
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nacoran
2737 posts
Sep 16, 2010
1:56 PM
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Lumpy, if you can't get all keys correctly you can learn over blows! If you over blow the 'Z' you can get an 'A'. It's the only fix I know if you don't have the right key.
Tooka, might I suggest you get someone to videotape this?
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Nate
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lumpy wafflesquirt
243 posts
Sep 16, 2010
2:26 PM
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Bummox
(that's for the dawn patrollers)
I normally read my posts for typos before hitting send but this time I was in a hurry
It almost lookls like is is in NODish
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
Last Edited by on Sep 16, 2010 2:27 PM
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tookatooka
1711 posts
Sep 16, 2010
2:33 PM
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Nah! You've got a long way to go before you can be as good at being bad at spelling as the honorable NOD :)
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