looselips
6 posts
Aug 26, 2010
11:57 AM
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i have decided to go for a epiphone valve jnr, and am going to either buy a shure m57 mic or a hohner blues blaster mic, can anyone help. also i will be mic'ing the epiphone jnr up to the PA system, do i need a DI box and if so can anyone explain in really simple terms how these work and will i need one. i need to understand will it matter if i use a high impedence mic or low impedence with the valve amp. please help.
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MP
773 posts
Aug 26, 2010
2:08 PM
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if you are going to mic the amp you don't need a DI.
a small desk mic stand would be good for positioning your PA mic in front of the amp you are micing. this is how you get the true sound of the amp.
don't loop the mic through the amp handle to dangle in front of the speaker. jokers who do this know nothing of sound reenforcement, omni and/or unidirectional microphones. so don't be led astray.
as an aside. the Shure SM-57 is a unidirectional microphone designed specifically for micing amps and acoustic instruments. it has other applications, but it is still to this day the industry standard for sound companys when micing amps. (see clair brothers of litiz PA.) i always carry one to mic my amp.
it'll work fine as a harp mic but i prefer my various astatics.
since you don't need a DI i'll let gregg heumann or someone explain why.
PS. cheers!
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2010 2:11 PM
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joeleebush
69 posts
Aug 26, 2010
2:13 PM
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to MP
Good information about that "looping the mike through the handle and letting it dangle".
You're right, that is so lame.
I had a guy point that out years ago and, of course, being stubborn I hissed and growled but was open minded enough to at least TRY your way.
And..mannnnnnn what a difference.
That 57 on one of those shortstop mike stands is perfect for the job at hand.
Regards
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MP
774 posts
Aug 26, 2010
2:22 PM
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Hey joe,
i went to the race thread and was going to type in "JEESUS! knock it off,you guys know nothing", till i read your post at the bottom.
good work. MP
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Greg Heumann
739 posts
Aug 26, 2010
11:27 PM
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There ARE mics made to collect sound from one flat side when hung down - they're perfect for mic'ing amps - but a mic like the 57 has to be pointed at the amp (and works just fine that way.)
A DI box would be used if you wanted to play your Blues Blaster, a high impedance mic, straight into the PA, which has low impedance inputs. The mic used to mic the amp will typically be a low impedance mic (again, like the SM57) so no DI box is necessary.
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/Greg
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Chinaski
126 posts
Aug 27, 2010
1:32 AM
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If you do have to 'loop and dangle', get hold of one of these mics:
http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=83
I got one on Adam's recommendation, and it's a great piece of kit. Swivel head, fantastic response - never go to any gig without it now.
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Myspace
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Max-T
37 posts
Aug 27, 2010
2:29 PM
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and am going to either buy a shure m57 mic or a hohner blues blaster mic
Depends on the sound you want, the sm57 as stated before is a low z mic which means you'd need some sort of transformer (lowz(XLR)->highz(1/4'' Jack)) to plug it directly into your valve jr (this is the set-up I use at the moment.)
The blues blaster is a highz mic so you could just plug it straight into the amp.
Only reason I could see you wanting a DI is if your amp had a separate out for a speaker. (IE you take an output from your amp, straight to a DI an then into the PA, rather than mic'ing the amp up) even then just mic'ing the amp up would be my first choice
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"imagination is more important then knowledge" - Albert Einstien
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captin beef harp
1 post
Aug 28, 2010
10:23 AM
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beef harp
has anyone tried the shaker madcat mic and what did they think of it thanks
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omaha
21 posts
Aug 28, 2010
11:43 AM
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After returning from Hill Country Harmonica I got a used Epihone valve Jr $125 from musician's friend and had it sent directly to Randy at Lone Wolf Blues company for modification. I also picked up a delay from him as well. I have a Blues Blaster mic that I play through and all I can tell you is this rig smokessss!! It is really kinda unbelievable especially since the entire thing only cost about $450 all in.
I will say I am kicking myself on a daily basis for not buying one of Greg Huerman's mics while he was their. What a dummy I was. My birthday is coming up and that is a mistake I plan to rectify.
Long and short of it is the Epihone Valve Jr is amazing for the price. Buy it used and send it to Randy - the warranty isn't any good after you mod it anyway and you can have a great tube amp set up for harmonica for what a new Valve jr costs. Greg can hook you up with a Kalamazoo, which I liked a little better but needed instant gratification.
Don't know anything about anything, impedance and especially about micing an amp, but i do know you should listen to Greg because he is the mic guru!
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2010 12:27 PM
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looselips
7 posts
Aug 30, 2010
3:58 AM
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i just seen the shure 545sd mic advertised, it is a dual impedance mic, so am i right in thinking you can switch between low and hi impedence to suit. would this be a better mic than the shure 57 mic.
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Greg Heumann
745 posts
Aug 30, 2010
8:09 AM
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Loose - don't choose a mic because of impedance unless you have a specific reason to do so. You can connect both high and low impedance mics to your amp, and you can connect both high and low impedance mics to a PA. The 545SD is a good mic - I'm not trying to talk you out of it - but I would base your decision on desired tone and ergonomics first and foremost.
I would recommend AGAINST the bluesblaster unless you find an old one with the Astatic MC-151 crystal in it. The current "Kobitone" crystal hohner uses just doesn't measure up tone wise.
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/Greg
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HarpNinja
595 posts
Aug 30, 2010
10:10 AM
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Just a thought....if you're sold on the Valve Jr get the best mic you can now, that'll help you down the road. Eventually, you may want to upgrade your amp and you won't be using an "ok" mic into a sweet amp. Make sense? You can get a lot of mileage out of a good mic.
Personally, I think it is important to pick an amp or mic that you know you want to use. Then you can match your other gear to it.
Regarding micing the amp, if you're playing places that run sound, they should have a mic for you. If not, I'd suggest the Sennheiser e609. It can drape over the amp and you won't need to buy a stand. I have the e906, which is way expensive, but the e609 is a good mic too! I don't like using stands...it is more gear to haul.
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Mike
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toddlgreene
1725 posts
Aug 30, 2010
10:22 AM
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For now, do change those godawful stock tubes for JJ tubes. It'll cost you 20 bucks or so and will make a huge difference in how that amp sounds. When you go to mic'ing it, you'll be hearing all the harshness that the shite EH/Sovtek tubes provide-but through the PA, and loud. Been there, done that. Also, sound advice above on mic'ing up and the Randy Landry mods. Without his mods and the tube swap, I would have ditched this amp already. I wish I would have made the tube swap before the amp went to Hill Country, too. Oh well, live and learn.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Aug 30, 2010 10:36 AM
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MP
783 posts
Aug 30, 2010
3:36 PM
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i've tried the shaker madcat and it's output is extremely low. you need a pre-amp. even straight into a PA. it is very clean. it is wierd to hold. (MP SMASH!) ARRRGGG!
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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MP
784 posts
Aug 30, 2010
4:34 PM
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ok, i'm all better now. re-the madcat feeling wierd:
at first glance, it looks like a brilliant idea. it's snot. assuming you are right handed, here is a little test demo of the beast to show how it feels.
place a small hard object between your ring and middle fingers of your left hand. no, not yer dick.
i was thinking of a pencil or pen. place harmonica between thumb and index finger of same hand. now cup hands together for a few minutes.
check only one answer below:
a) had enough yet?
b) wow nice!
c) no worry beef curry, but no thanks.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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looselips
8 posts
Aug 31, 2010
8:45 AM
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greg thanks for the advice, now before i ask i am in england, so i might not be able to get the same mics all the time that you can, what mic would you recommend i want to get the chicago blues sound. i dont know about amps as you will be able to see from my posts, so i am obviously very confused with impedance etc.. please help. thanks to everyone for their help
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bluemoose
280 posts
Aug 31, 2010
11:01 AM
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lips, check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110573638021
Can't go wrong with an Rharley mic.
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Greg Heumann
751 posts
Aug 31, 2010
6:03 PM
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Loose - there is a relationship between the amp and the mic. As a general rule, small, single-preamp-tube amps break up a lot more than 2- or 3-tube preamp section amps. With a small dirty amp, ANY mic can sound good. With a bigger more powerful amp, the onus is more and more on your technique, and the differences between mics will be heard more.
Technique is HUGE. The best mic won't help you (much) and the worst one won't hurt you (much) UNLESS your mic technique is well developed. Then, and only then, will you really hear just how good a really good CR or CM element mic (i.e., vintage Shure Bullet - 707 or 520, not 520D or 520DX) or other shell with the one of these elements - can sound.
I have excellent bullets and the Ultimate 57 or Ultimate 545 break up beautifully. But I'm willing to bet I could spend 10 minutes with you and improve your tone more than any change in mic and amp. Unfortunately there are lots of people who teach good acoustic tone (which is absolutely required for good amplified tone) but almost nobody who really tells you what is required for good amplified tone. It takes good gear so you KNOW what CAN be attained - then you work, and work, and work at it.
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Aug 31, 2010 6:04 PM
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captin beef harp
5 posts
Aug 31, 2010
7:34 PM
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mp thanks for the tip on the madcat shaker they do look good on paper
whats beef with no legs
ground beef
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