toddlgreene
1709 posts
Aug 26, 2010
6:27 AM
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In a couple of weeks, I'm gonna justify buying myself a low F harp. I play a combination of custom MBs and modded LO harps for the most part, with a few others thrown in here and there. I'm not super particular on which brand I get or comb material, but I want to spend under(or right at) 50 bucks.
I'll probably avoid an OOTB MB right now, as I can't stand them stock and want to play it right away, and I'll allow myself time for some gapping where necessary. For those of you who have Low Fs, and especially those of you who have tried more than one brand in this key, whose harp would you recommend? Any bad experiences to note?
Edit:I'm not a OB/OD player, so no issues there.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2010 6:45 AM
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JimInMO
83 posts
Aug 26, 2010
6:37 AM
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Bushman Delta Frost, in any key as far as that goes. Easy bends on the lower holes. Concise notes on all holes ootb. At least with the one I got. I have yet to master ob and od yet so no comment there.
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2010 6:38 AM
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tookatooka
1686 posts
Aug 26, 2010
6:39 AM
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You have a low F, I'm going to have a high T. Tea with cucumber sandwiches and scones with jam and cream.
But seriously. I have a Special20 Low F which has performed extremely well. I also have a Delta Frost but the tuning on the Sp20 gives it the edge as far as I'm concerned. They are both robust, willing harps though.
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toddlgreene
1710 posts
Aug 26, 2010
6:48 AM
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Oh yeah, let me also add that I prefer compromised tuning-I play lots of chords/octaves. I'm not wild about equal temperament. I have a few SP20s(all modded)that I grab ocasionally, so I won't rule them out. I'd prefer to not have to retune what I buy, but I'll allow for it if the harp plays sweet enough OOTB.
I would have been better to join you in that tea, Tooka...I opted for my Sumatran coffee and a donut(the latter should have been avoided).
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2010 6:56 AM
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HarveyHarp
108 posts
Aug 26, 2010
7:43 AM
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Todd, Personally, for low harps, especially the real low harps, I prefer a Big River, because the cover plates are taller, and there is less chance that the reeds will hit them because of the long swing. I did, however, nake a Low F minor the other day out of an Ad Marine Band which seems to work OK. Of course, as you know, I can make the Big River work well for you, and it is the cheapest.
If you heard my Duo for the Blues Contest yesterday on WWOZ, I was using a Low F Big River.
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toddlgreene
1713 posts
Aug 26, 2010
7:46 AM
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No, Harv, soryy I wansn't able to tune in-I couldn't pick it up here at work...Big River eh? Hmmm...cheapcheap...I could get it now. Hope the radio thing went well. Gimme a call later.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2010 7:46 AM
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arzajac
323 posts
Aug 26, 2010
8:09 AM
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I had a LO key of C that I hated. With a passion! Crap, I tell ya!
I went on ebay and found low-F reedplates for it for 15$. It's now one of my favorite harps. I barely had to gap it. It can overblow fairly well.
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Greg Heumann
737 posts
Aug 26, 2010
8:28 AM
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Seydel 1847. Stainless steel reeds. Louder, better.
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/Greg
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barbequebob
1186 posts
Aug 26, 2010
10:02 AM
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Greg, for an OOTB Low F or LEb, I agree. I'll still take a custom one over any OOTB any day.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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toddlgreene
1715 posts
Aug 26, 2010
10:15 AM
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Bob, me too...but I want an OOTB, and under 50$ which would rule out Seydel's Silver 1847.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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earlounge
145 posts
Aug 26, 2010
10:27 AM
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I just got a Firebreath low F, but the POS was out of tune! It sounded horrible, but played really nice. I tuned it up (first attempt at tuning) and it is better.
I got a Low D 1847 and it is awesome!
I also got a SP20 in low Eb and it plays great. I would say SP20 low F if you want it less than $50.
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jaymcc28
303 posts
Aug 26, 2010
10:47 AM
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@Harvey: You mentioned "... I prefer a Big River, because the cover plates are taller, and there is less chance that the reeds will hit them..."
I have an OOTB MB in Low F and I have that exact problem with a 1d. Is there anything I can do that would eleviate the problem?
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"Take out your false teeth, momma, I want to suck on your gums."-P. Wolf
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joeleebush
66 posts
Aug 26, 2010
12:53 PM
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@ Todd Greene
I use Big River Low F's and get a wonderful sound out of them.
Since 90% of the time I am amplified, I want that noise to go straight into the mike, so I replace the covers with old Blues Harp covers (which a guy saves for me..and there are no open ends on them) By the way, special 20 covers won't work.
Try one and if you think it's a total dog, then send it to me as a freebie and I will make it work somehow for myself. (I will pay for the postage though)
Regards and stay happy
Joe Lee
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barbequebob
1188 posts
Aug 26, 2010
12:57 PM
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If you get a custom Low F MB, one of the things they do is reshape the covers so that the reed never rattles against the covers.
The Seydel 1847's, especially on the LowEb's and lower, they have a little "ridge" on the bottom cover plate that completely eliminates the problem.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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HarveyHarp
110 posts
Aug 26, 2010
12:59 PM
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Jay You are going to have to remove the covers, and curve them up a little. While you are at it, take a little brass hammer and fold over the back edges of the cover plates using a block of wood as support. That should give it a little more stability. and it will be louder. Of course, I always replace all nails with screws and I use 2mm x12mm stainless, which supports the covers and puts a slight arc in them. and while you are at it, you might as well emboss, curve and tune them. Then there is always camphering etc. LOL
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jaymcc28
304 posts
Aug 26, 2010
1:10 PM
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LOL...curving up the cover will be a challenge enough for me! Thanks Harvey.
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"Take out your false teeth, momma, I want to suck on your gums."-P. Wolf
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barbequebob
1191 posts
Aug 26, 2010
1:26 PM
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If you're gonna use an MS series harp, what I would recommend is getting whatever model you want, but if you're using the Big River, Pro Harp or Blues Harp, replace those reed plates with a set of Cross Harp reed plates, which has a thicker plate and they will definely play louder than the stock plates in those Low F's.
If you prefer a wood comb with the MS series, ditch that doussie wood comb they use and order a sealed maple comb from Mark Lavoie at http://www.middlebury.net/lavoie, which also allows you to use 5 reed plate screws as opposed to 2 with the standard Blues Harp comb and will give you a tighter seal and more volume.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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pharpo
351 posts
Aug 26, 2010
2:36 PM
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Todd..I got a Low F SP20 and it played (s) fine OOTB.
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Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. - Charlie Parker
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Rubes
110 posts
Aug 26, 2010
2:42 PM
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I'm happy as Larry with my Suzuki Hammond lo-F..... :~)
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Ant138
547 posts
Aug 26, 2010
11:50 PM
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The only low harps i own are Special 20's and to be honest i can't fault them. I'm not usually a Hohner fan but the low Special 20's are very good.
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toddlgreene
1719 posts
Aug 27, 2010
5:16 AM
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Thanks for the input so far, everyone. Now, another question:On the OOTB low F's you own, do the cover plates appear taller to allow for the longer reeds to swing without hitting? Do some deep bends on the lower register(especially with vibrato)and let me know if you hear those reeds rattling against the covers. Again, I know how to fix it , but don't want to. That's the point of finding an OOTB low f that I WON'T have to mod right away, spare some gapping. Oh, and I reiterate:50 bucks or less!
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2010 5:18 AM
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nacoran
2628 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:02 AM
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I only have a LLF, but I have a L.O. in G and it doesn't rattle at all. The bottom couple L.O. keys are thicker than the higher keys so there is no headroom problem. The LLF (Seydel) rattles if I play to hard, but I can prevent it by adjusting how I play a little.
For what a L.O. costs you could get a custom comb made extra fat and throw that on there and still come in around $50, but I don't think the L.O. will rattle.
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Nate
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toddlgreene
1720 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:08 AM
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Thanks, Nate-and I've got lots of LO's(the lowest being a G, which also never rattles)-but I left out another caveat-I am looking for a harp that's not tuned ET. For once, I don't want to fool with anything, except for some minor gapping as needed.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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Rubes
111 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:12 AM
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Ok I admit it.......the lo-f Hammond....um....rattles......(I am bending the little sucker tho!)
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toddlgreene
1721 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:18 AM
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Rubes-I sometimes hit 'em hard, too. That annoying rattle will drive me nuts! I would like to try a Hammond,or any Suzuki for that matter, but maybe not in a low f. Thanks!
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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AW
39 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:28 AM
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I have a turbo harp low D which I like. I think its just a special 20 with the turboharp cover plates (which have never rattled on me.)
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The Gloth
457 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:32 AM
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I got a LF Marine Band and I like it a lot. I think it plays and sounds good, at least for my level of playing. I don't think I ever tried to OB with it, anyway its sound always lead me to play kind of "old style" on it, train songs and talking harp and things like that.
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http://www.buddybrent.be
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earlounge
146 posts
Aug 27, 2010
7:48 AM
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The Firebreath and SP20 only rattle a little when I hit them REALLY hard, but never do when I am playing normal. 1847 never rattles because of the punched out coverplates bob describes.
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barbequebob
1194 posts
Aug 27, 2010
10:02 AM
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@Toddgreene -- For being closser you your budget, the Suzuki Manji comes in Low F and they use a comprimise tuning (the comprimise is that the 3rd of the blow and draw chords are tuned 5 cents flat and all the other notes are tuned to ET), but I haven't tried one out yet in that key and they use long slot reeds for the Manji's.
Tho it's over your budget for OOTB, probably the most ideal for you is the Seydel 1847, which is comprise tuned, but in reality, the tuning is largely close to 19LJI, and the "comprimised" notes are 5 & 9 draw, and in 19LJI, those notes would be tuned 1.5 cents sharp, and Seydel has them tuned 2 cents flat and if you check those tuning charts I posted awhile back, you can see the tuning layout on it. The lower cover has the little bump there so that 1 draw NEVER rattles, even when played too hard (tho not recommended). The 1847's come with the metal comb in the version called The Noble, a FULLY sealed wood comb with the Classic version, a solid brick plastic comb (actually polymer) with the Silver version, and the Silver+ has the standard hollow ABS plastic comb.
Of all the stock Low F's I'ved tried, outside of a custom MB, I'll take the Seydel 1847 over all the rest.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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toddlgreene
1723 posts
Aug 27, 2010
10:17 AM
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BBQ, if I can snag a deal in the bargain bin at guitar center on an 1847 like someone on here did recently, and it just so happened to be a low F, I'd be one lucky and happy dude...
The Manji is probably the highest on my interest list now, too. Rockin Ron has 'em cheap, and with free shipping. I read on another Manji thread by HarpNinja(Mike)that he likes the Manji, but wasn't pleased with one he got in the very key I am seeking...still wondering why. If he doesn't wander in and see this thread, I'll email him. I hope it wasn't the rattle issue.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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walterharp
441 posts
Aug 27, 2010
11:10 AM
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i have a manji in G, only a step up...and like it very much. the upper register is particularly sweet
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sammyharp
1 post
Aug 27, 2010
1:08 PM
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I love my Seydel 1847 low F. Sounds huge, really well tuned, and easy to bend. fairly expensive, but well worth it in my opinion.
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Jim Harris
43 posts
Aug 27, 2010
2:02 PM
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I like my Spec 20 low F. It's sound matches very well to my 270 Chromonica in F (which registers as low F).
I would be very curious about a better Suzuki, like a Manji or some of the others mentioned. The Seydel sounds good, but a bit out of my price range too, especially for an out of the ordinary key.
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CaptJonHawaii
23 posts
Aug 27, 2010
5:25 PM
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Manji lowF is a great harp. Covers are easy to squeeze however. I added a support screw in the back to hold the cover plates open. I've also tried the Turboharp which is actually a Special20. Cover plates are very wide open. Creates a very different sound compared to the Manji. I like both.
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toddlgreene
1753 posts
Sep 09, 2010
4:58 AM
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UPDATE:
I got a low F Big River HarveyHarp, and it plays very sweet, with minimal breath force. I haven't had a chance to put in a lot of time on it yet, but besides perhaps some minimal gap adjustments, I already like the feel of it and the timbre of the lower register. And no reeds hitting the cover plates, either, which are amply high enough. I'll put it to use at my next show this Saturday. I'm betting I can get some sweet sax-like honk out of it amped up and cupped tight.
I'm intrigued by that TurboHarp...and the Manji-thanks for the pics! I think a call to Rockin' Ron for a Manji is coming soon.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2010 5:02 AM
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harmonicanick
881 posts
Sep 09, 2010
5:39 AM
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SP 20 low F very good OOTB
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toddlgreene
1754 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:05 AM
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nick, my experiences with SP20s have been pretty good;I would not rule it out for a new harp in any key, especially when the price is right. I have a few that are now opened up and modded that I play from time to time, but never had issues with them OOTB either.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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AirMojo
15 posts
Sep 09, 2010
8:30 AM
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I have several Low F harps... my favorite is a TurboLid'd Special 20. I really like the TurboLids on Low harps !
The other Low F harps... Lee Oskar (my 1st Low F, and a good harp), custom Marine Band (plays great), Seydel 1847 Silver+ (not crazy about the Silver+, only Silver+ I own... I may need to tweak it).
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