Very couragous...singing and playing and asking for a critique! Tone is one of those personal taste kind of thing but overall, I thought your tone was good. Not a fat Chicago tone but one with enough high end to cut through the mix. Not a horn sounding tone like Chris/Buddha gets but all and all, a pleasing tone to me.
I agree. The SM57 is not a very horny sounding mic compared to those sweet EV mics. I actually have Chris's EV660 and it gives me a very horny tone. Thing is it works best when I'm not on the looper. I actually prefer that EV660 mics tone for harp. It sounds too muddy for vocals and beatboxing though.
I'm also honestly trying to find my own voice and not try to sound like anyone in particular. Cool right?
Yep, I agree with Joch. I'd say you've got a hard edged aggressive tone. Its nice to see how far you've come. I've been working on my tone for a while now and it seems to be evolving VERY slowly. Yep, you sound good Zhin
Hi Bro nice work, but is it your amped tone your asking about or your acoustic tone:)
amped is always a hard one to work out so i would say find a mic you are happy with twiddle them amp controls untill you are happy with the sound you are looking for and go with it man don't look back:)
Greg-H told me when i asked about the sm57 tone compared to the shure Spher-O-Dyne he said i wouldn't like the sm57 because it is a brighter sounding mic, if you can get a lend of a Sper-O-Dyne Bro give it a try:)
Im SHURE it would make a great beat box mic not to clean, not to muddy vocals are great, and it has a built in Pop Filter wich should take away most of highs when you do the drum beats into the mic should give a more bass like sound I think:)
PS I'm 50 an Old Fart and don't know what im talking about with beat boxing, in Old Fart terms it should take out most of that high spiting sound you know the SSSing when you start beatboxing:)
---------- Zhin mate you go no Problems with tone Cheers:)
Last Edited by on Aug 17, 2010 7:18 AM
">Im SHURE it would make a great beat box mic not to clean, not to muddy vocals are great, and it has a built in Pop Filter wich should take away most of highs when you do the drum beats into the mic should give a more bass like sound I think:) "
Daaaaaaaayyyyuuuum.... Brother N.O.D mate, you KNOW it man.
Yes, you are absolutely right about the SM57. It's the exact reasons why Brandon uses it too.
@Luke, What can I say? I'm a young hot blooded man acting my age. It's hard not to be aggressive! But I'm trying my best to control. I know I'm doing a better job than I used to before. Thanks man!
To my ear it sounds as if you're bending the 2 hole down too far. I know that we were just having the discussion with the blue third and I know that bending down this note (and 5 draw) sounds bluesy, but as far as I have noticed, when the harp is set up too good it just bends down too far.
Everything else is great. It all fits nicely togeather. Cool sound, you and the whole band..
Your tone is just fine--just settle in and stop obsessing on what kind of hardware you're cooking with and what riff you're on and which one you just got off--take one more step out toward the edge and stop thinking too much--just another opinion, of course. . . ----------
Here's the main thing about tone IMO. Does it get YOU off and inspire you to play more? - to "get into the music" If it does than you're golden.
To my ear your tone is good - it will develop and change a bit as you move forward - (and play with different gear) but it's good. Your voice sounds nice too. Through a PA with a little eq and reverb it would sound even better.
relax - enjoy, keep learning and pushing on . - and I second dancing on the edge too. ----------
@GermanHarpist, I gotta agree. Those bends can get tricky. Gotta work on my intonation better. And I'm glad you liked the "band". ;) Thanks man!
@oldwailer, I don't really do the obsessive thing anymore as I play because quite often I trainwreck a song when I used to do that. But asking me not to obsess with gear... I'm a harp player, how can I not obsess over my precious mics and amp?! :)
@nacoran, THAAAANKS!!! I was hoping someone would notice that part without needing me to mention it.
@Diggs, maybe because I'm Asian? lol. I like having a strong punchy vibrato like SBWII. Not really the slow and smooth kind that does indeed fatten up any tone. I find that if it's the right context, then I'll do it. Normally when I play something like Stormy Monday I do make it sound fatter. Thank you for the comment sir!
@bonedog569, it did get me off real good. So much I needed an ice cold shower later and a sandwhich. I am happy about it that's why I had the audacious motivation to make such an "arrogant" thread. hehehe. Thanks for the advice friend!
It's interesting that right now, I have half of everyone telling me I should sing exclusively through my own mic and amp... And then there are who insist that PA is the only way to go. Whatchu all think?
Nice job! Good beat box too. I don't like it when the beat box doesn't sound like an actual drum.
My only 2 cents to throw in is the head shake warbles. I know you are playing pretty intensely, but they seem rushed and not as controlled as the rest of your playing. Perhaps if you were to use your wrists, you could control the speed a little more. I think there is a subtle patience to playing a warble and staying in the groove - especially with a loping beat like this one.
The things that I don't care about using loops for a groove is that you don't have a true interaction with a drummer in terms of being able to use dynamics and just turning down the volume of a sampler or a DJ doing it is not even close to the same.
As far as mic/amp setup or use the PA, that's your own choice as I've seen so many mediocre players sound even more mediocre going thru rigs and I've heard great players sound good thru anything including the PA (like James Cotton or Howlin' wolf for instance) so it's what works for you and the best tone has to start from you and your harmonica and nothing else and it's the GIGO theory, garbage in garbage out thing and if you got it together, it ain't gonna matter at all so don't get too concerned over the gear aspect that too many players often with marginal chops get too obsessed over.
Not to brag, but there was a time I considered leaving the amps home and go straight thru the PA no matter what and many harp players thought I was nuts and I always told them that if you got your s**t together, you can get more out of a PA than the vast majority of players are gonna get thru their rigs.
It is important to get much more in sync with the groove from start to finish because a couple of times, it sounded like you were on the verge of fighting it rather than working with it and it does take time to get it to a point that you feel it 24/7. Kingobad's feeling of being rushed is that a few times you were clearly ahead of the beat and you need to have a sense of consistency from the get go because groove is everything and your playing always needs to have an underlying sense of groove happening 24/7 even without anything backing you at all. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Programmed percussion or rhythm is nothing new for harmonica backing. Little Mac Simmons was using a drum machine on some club gigs over 30 years ago and caught a bunch of crap for it.
I like playing through the PA regularly. It's honest and it's the great equalizer.
If a person doesn't know whether their tone is good or not, it's a worthwhile exercise to listen to more really good harp players and compare.
Last Edited by on Aug 18, 2010 12:44 PM
It doesn't bother me in th eleast to play thru the PA. In fact, with jams, it's often the single best equalizer as Joe L says because you can't hide bad tone and chops behind an amp and trillion pedals because if you've got it acoustically, it'll still come out thru the PA and if you don't, you have no place to hide. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
No offense intended here, but most every video posted on this forum is done with a hand held camera, or some other very low quality audio device that doesn't accurately catch the sound, thus I never comment on them because who knows what it really sounded like. A good audio recording, will show just how good or bad ones tone is. I learned that playing down in austin on austin public access television. I have seen Jimmy and Stevie Vaughn videos that sounded so bad audio wise because they were done with inexperienced people and low quality gear. You had to turn the thing off, while on another channel an austin city limits show was on with them and the tone was killer because of great gear and great engineers. Walter
here is what I am talking about. The audio quality of this video stinks. If one was to just listen to the audio and no video, with no idea who was playing, would it be regarded as legendary?? Not to my ears. But I have seen Walter Horton play live and know what his tone sounded like and that it was legendary without a doubt.
now here is another from him that sounds tone to death with or without the video, it is tops! Bad sounding audio will kill you everytime, and great sounding audio will show you just as you are.
here is one with louisiana red and carey bell. I played with both these guys and lived with red. This is an acurate sound.
and here is a very inacurate one. Same guy, just crap recording gear.
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Hmm... I think it's interesting that I asked about the harp tone and I got all sorts of commentary for my timing and and individual taste on drum looping...
Only on MBH Forums.... *rolls eyes*
Guys, I just want you to know that when this video was made there was no intention of putting it online. It was an audition between me and guitar-guy. When I reviewed it I liked how it sounded because compared to all my other videos it had a better representation of how I sound in person.
This video was not made with good tone in mind. I did not prepare the right enviroment or equipment. But I thought you guys have better ears than that. I think some things can still easily translate and come through even after all the filtering and dynamic range compression that happens.
Take it easy guys.
@KingoBad, I'm glad you mentioned it. Truth is I absolutely hate 90% of beatboxing and beatboxers out there for the same reason. They don't sound anything remotely close to real drums. The ones who can't even make a good kick drum sound... I call them "FART-BOXERS". I take a lot of pride in making sure I get that part right. Sounding convincing enough that is. I only started on June 1st with the beatboxing btw. Dig it?
barbequebob, I agree on the part where good timing and dynamics are important. But it almost sounds like you're just being dismissive and going off on random tangents. Kinda lost me there man.
@Joe_L, "If a person doesn't know whether their tone is good or not, it's a worthwhile exercise to listen to more really good harp players and compare. "
No offence but that's not good advice especially on the modern blues harmonica forum. There is a time for me to be a judge and rely on solely my own opinions and there is a time to ask the jury instead. I believe in doing both. People on the receiving end of a buttload of decibels should be given the chance to voice out their opinions on it. Just sayin!
@LittleJoeSamson, It is recorded in my study! It wasn't originally a tone test. Just an audition that turned out interesting. Maybe in the future there will be other vids of it being tested somewhere else.
@waltertore, I don't have pro equipment and I certainly can't afford a better cam right now. So what do you suggest from that?
@AV8R, NOTHING WAS REHEARSED!!!!! This was a first and one take of the day with guitar-guy. He had no clue what was going on. I didn't even tell him the song key (I know evil me).
Hey Zhin, I recall viewing your videos from a while back. I think you've definitely improved. Good job.
On another note, I do want to add that your last comment is unnecessarily bitter. If you ask for advice, you should take it all -- and not dismiss some advice as "bad advice" and *roll eyes at suggestions that weren't to your liking. I dunna, I'm just saying, seems kinda rude.
---------- I could be bound by a nutshell and still count myself a king of infinite space
Thing is, with looping beat box stuff it isn't like a drum machine where it is perfect, there is some natural feel involved, so I don't understand how it can be completely compared to anything like that. It isn't a 'real' drummer but it is much closer than a drum machine with perfect speed.
@oda, I am taking it all but I'm not a bitch. I'm not always going to agree with people and act completely amiable. That's for sell-outs and people who can't be true to themselves.
If I disagree I will say so, if I agree I say so too. I am very transparent. That's why nobody can accuse me as a sweet talker because I don't always talk sweet.
I am being polite about it and what I speak is fact. Telling someone that the ONLY way to learn tone is to listen to other people is bad advice.
It's called having a spine and sticking to your guns.
I do appreciate the time taken and advice. And I appreciate the comments. But you see, I keep it real. Just because you say something nice to me doesn't mean I'm not going to face the facts.
I’m at a shopping mall. I’m just browsing, looking for things to do. Someone catches my eye, I get closer to see what he has to say in detail; he is asking "Excuse me, sir. Can you please tell me what you think of this sweater?" at this point in time he has interacted with me -- there is a connection – I would then oblige and take a look at his sweater and generously take the time to formulate an opinion (upon his request) and tell him that I dislike the color and material and what not – I would expect him to thank me for my opinion and not lash out. Because, after all, it doesn’t matter if he never intended to put it on, what matters is that he asked for a critique and a critique was given.
You can still keep it real and be polite.
I dig what you were doing starting @ 3:50. I think you channeled into something neat there, very heart-felt. ---------- I could be bound by a nutshell and still count myself a king of infinite space
" @LittleJoeSamson, It is recorded in my study! It wasn't originally a tone test. Just an audition that turned out interesting. Maybe in the future there will be other vids of it being tested somewhere else."
Yes, These spontaneous, organic sessions are quite illustrative. I don't have decent tnough recording equipment to post here. I put my $$$ in perfoming equipment. That being said, I find that I might woodshed and like a particular sound or groove...only to discover that the same thing does not sound quite right in performance. ( My woodshedding involves either playing acoustically in my car, or amped in a closed garage so as not to offend neighbors , and those 1/2 hours before and after lessons in a sound room. Distinctly different. )
@LittleJoeSamson, I know exactly what you're talking about. I actually play out a lot at different jam studios and halls for practice and real tone testing. Then there are also the gigs...
Thing is I do know the difference between a bedroom jammer and a live gigger. ;)
I have spent my budget first on my performing equipment. I think the high quality cams and mics can come later when I actually start to build a solid reputation. Right now I am still considered green and a newbie so I just think it's too premature for me to be thinking of professional recording equipment.
Zhin: You will never get an accurate critique of your tone while it is recorded on gear that does not accurately portray what is coming out. No put down from me at all, just a fact that I see here on most all videos posted and no one has super overide abilities to hear what isn't on the sample-aka- acurately filter through the quality of the recording. My suggestion is to just keep playing and to keep listening to as much music, live preferably, as you can that has tone you are striving for. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
@Zhin how long you been blowin` harp? how did you develop your vibrato? ben blowin a long time and can bend fine especially 2draw but totally failing in my throat vibrato attempt need help
@waltertone, I was seeking more for a generalization. To me, what's important is that it's good enough and that it doesn't suck horribly. I'm glad that it's the former.
@AV8R, nonono! I took it as a compliment and further clarified that you were right! My bad. I appreciated it a lot.
@groyster1, this coming September 3rd will officially mark my 3rd year. I mainly use gut/diaphragm vibrato. I also use the throat and jaw. I also like mixing and matching them around to get a modulated type of vibrato sound (this happens when I do it with BOTH my throat and belly). I mainly remembered listening to SBWII and Charlie Musselwhite A LOT when I was obsessing and trying to learn how to vibrato. I would love to help you if I can but I'm sure there are far more qualified people on this forum who may want to butt in anytime and explain how it's done.
OK, without commenting on the fact that you're singing a I IV V song over a single chord, or that your timing IS way off, your tone is pretty thin. The right side of your harp is open front and rear. Try extending your cup to cover the whole harp in the rear. And try covering at least the 9 and 10 with your right thumb. I hear moments of promise too - if you hear parts you like too, then work on figuring out what you were doing THEN. You have good vibrato occasionally.
The tone in your closing statement is pretty harsh - but as you get quieter toward the end it gets a little better. Maybe the mic you're using to record is getting overloaded. ---------- /Greg
