Although I own too many harps, I occasionally get the feeling that the low Eb is a must own, and I only have low F, low D and low C. I'd say these harps can be classified as "nice" or "useful" Low D is "nice" but it's not really "useful". Low F is both - the key of C is common. The key of Bb isn't that common. Or maybe it's a stupid classification - if a good musician makes good use of a nice harp it becomes useful. But what about the Eb, is it more like the D or is it more like the F? I know there are big Eb fans on here. I don't know Chris's view - I only know he likes low F. I don't recall him talking about any other low key. ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
I'm as low as I can get, without going downstairs...it's making reach the keyboard tricky though...
The 2 draw, full tone, bend isn't always possible on a low D...it can be kind of implied if just a passing note...but if you have to hit the note dead on, then Eb upwards are all possible/useful.
Groyster, I think Andrew was talking about the tenor tuned Eb?
What do you mean useful? Everything is useful in the proper context.
I guess you are playing amplified. If you limit yourself to playing amplified, then of course your would want to classify the lower keyed harps as not useful since they don't cut through and you can't hear the beautiful overtones when amped.
Arzajac, I have no idea what amplified playing, or otherwise has to do with it? You typicaly lose 3dB with every octave you drop, acoustically or amplified.
Sure, a low D has its uses if you accept it's limitations...but if you need to reliable & tangibly hit the 2 draw full tone bend, then you might do it, but most guys will use a regular D, or shift keys/positions.
I agree that everything is useful in the proper context & a good musician should recognise that.
Dennis Gruenling is the master of the low tuned harp. He hits all bends fluidly and gracefully. Check out his CD's-"Jump Time" features 3 tunes using Low Eb in second position and "Thats Right!",which features 4 tunes utilizing Low Eb in second position-"You Brought The Blues On Yourself" starts off with the head in Low Eb second,the first solo in Ab third position,and the out solo is Low Ab third position.
Last Edited by on Aug 11, 2010 8:04 AM
I use Low EB harps a lot because the standard ones are far too shrill sounding when working with horns and you can get a really sax like attack with a Low EB wheras the standard one, you really can't even with a pitch shifter.
It's also great for 3rd position as well. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Low Eb's weren't available on a regular basis until after Butterfield passed away. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
My only low harp is a LLF. I think low harps need more breaking in to get bends. I've had it for nearly a year now and it bends much easier than it did when I got it. There are some neat noises you can make on a low harp that just don't work on higher harps.
I am glad someone else brought this up, because I just bought a Low F Firebreath, Low Eb SP20, and a Low D 1847.
I really wanted a Low F so 2nd in C wouldn't be so high pitched. Low Eb you get Bb in 2nd and F in 3rd, so I went for it.
I wanted to try each kind to see which I like best. The Firebreath is unfortunately the worst of the 3. The 2 draw is weak and the 3 bends are leaky. I thought it would be slightly more "airy" then my G, but it is WAY different. It also seems like it is out of tune! It must be the harp because the Eb SP20 sounds sweet and the bends are all fairly easy. The Low D 1847 is even better than the Firebreath!
IF you're not used to playing anything lower than a G, you will need some woodshedding time with it and avoid going into automatic pilot and use more breath force, which won't help at all. You really have to be much more physically relaxed to play them and I also strongly recommend going to a vocal coach for breathing lessons here.
The best playing out of the box Low EB's are they Seydel 1847's by a wide margin. The stock Hohners don't play anywhere near as well in this key. Better than both is a customized Hohner in those keys.
One thing you will need to remember is that you will need to do some minor adjustments with both your embouchure as well as how you manipulate the inside shape of your mouth because you need to develop a larger resonating cavity for lower pitched harps as a general rule. For beding notes on anything lower than a Low F, that larger resonating cavity inside your mouth will become a lot more important.
@Nacoran --- LLF is the last key I'd start on for someone new to lower keys because for someone new at low pitched harps, you've picked the most difficult one the start off with, but once you get used to playing them, Low Eb's will be a breeze by comparison. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
BBQ, yeah, but it sounds soooo awesome! I wanted something that was radically different from the other harps I had. It also involved filling in gaps in my key selection of good harps. I don't carry it around in my pocket like my other harps since it is more likely to jam if I don't store it properly and it really needs to be amplified to hear except in a quiet room, but it is so much fun to play!
I play a Lo F all the time i call it my secret weapon ....It is a custom harp old reed plates 2003 stamp .. it plays like butter i have no problem bending on the 2 hole ... but i been playing low harps all my life G & A have been my fav harp keys . till i found out about lo tuned harps ....i have a lo D in a 364 12 hole i love it ..i have a lo C 364 .. then i have Lo F .. Marine Band and a Lo E . I also have a lo D Marine Band if i ever get the time to customize it it will be in my road case ... My time is spent making harps for everyone els ...I would rather use a lo harp rather than a E harp or F .. like BBQ Bob said they are too shrilly ...and they hurt the people in the 1 st row ...the only time ill use a harp over the key of D is if im playing Sonny Boy style .. with a pa mic on a stand ....for the Wa Wa efect ...When you play a Custom Lo Tuned harp it plays alot better without the leaks ....i also TB everything .. im going to post a video of me using a Lo F on the next line because it gets jumbled into my sentences ...but i dont know if it will show up as a video ...might be just text i tried it yesterday and removed it ... but lets see if you can still coppy and paste it it might work ... My solo is at the end of the Video so Please wacth it all the way ... im playing rhythm on the 1 draw and 1 bl and 2 dr .. till my solo ....also check out my webpage for more videos ... www.deakharp.com ...
Wala it worked ...i forgot to mention or friend over the pond Oxharp recorded it ... my harp is a little low in the mix ... but thats what you get when you got a loud band and only 50 watts and TB tone ... i can sharpen my tone by playing LP but i wont or opening up my cup a bit ....but i love the deep tone ...lo harps ... and Blues ...
Deak, real nice groove throughout that tune. Your approach with the Low D gave it a sort of a V3 feel brooding underneath. Gotta say, not too many videos Ive appreciated around here more than that one. ...and, as to low harps, EB, oh yeah. Love hanging with the horns.
I play a lot of stuff on low harps and a 14 hole marine band in C. Today I hung out with a good friend that is in terrible shape from the addictive life he lead. It was sad to see someone my age that seemed 30 years, at least, older. He is physically frail, in pain, and befuddled alot. These two songs are about the visit we had and the harp choice by this low harp thread. Walter
heroin wrecked my life no escape when born of trouble
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
My blunder: I actually wanted this to be a thread about the low Eb harp!
However, here's a question about low harps in general. I've been practising on my low D bending my 2 draw down two semitones (and more if possible, in order to make the two-semitone bend more convincing), and I find that even though I can do it OK, it's hard to get the intonation exactly right on that one-semitone bend. Do you find that's generally true with low harps, or hadn't you given much thought to the humbler one-semitone bend? ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2010 10:37 AM
Again, the trick to getting those bends is with NOT using a lot of breath along with having yourself FULLY relaxed and make more adjustments (they're usually gonna be very subtle) in both your embouchure and even more importantly, the inside shape of your mouth to get them and NEVER try to force it to happen. If you're having problems with the intonation, you're most likely trying to force it, which only makes things get worse. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Andrew I just go into auto pilot ...The main thing in playing with a band is you get that Drone in yur head ... Of the key of the music ..... And then any note that you play has to {Ring} with the band ...If you are playing by yurself it is alot harder to get that .... Intonation=Mussel Memory= Embousure= Relaxed=.. The best thing i ever did for my woodshedding and getting close to intonation ... was jamming on top of any song at home not learning note for note ... But playing along helps to hear the {Ring}... And also Jam Tracks are good too ... But i always noticed they seem too dry .. no soul..More machanical .. ---------- Have Harp Will Travel
I like what you say Deak - I haven't played with a band, but I find when I jam to a record, I get sucked into it. A lot of things in life happen that way - in electronics and mechanics you get what's called sympathetic resonance (?from memory. Actually, I think that's what explains note bending in the reeds. Electrical circuits tend to resonate in phase with each other), or if you go running with someone, it's much easier to go the distance than when you're alone, to use a purely psychological example. ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
