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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Learning to customize (and failing)
Learning to customize (and failing)
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jonlaing
35 posts
Aug 07, 2010
10:19 PM
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So I had a few quick questions about customizing. First off, much respect to the people that do this well. I'm probably never going to be able to say the same for myself. Oh well...
On to the questions. I was trying to customize based on the instructions on overblow.com. I did the embossing without incident. Then I moved on to edge rounding, and that's when it all went awry. The first reed sounds... um... awful. It's quiet, waaay out of tune, and just sounds all kinds of wrong. Have I destroyed this reed beyond repair? Is there a way to fix it, or am I going to have to steal a reed from another harp?
Also, I was intrigued about things like 19-limit JI tuning and stuff like that. Is there any good documentation on how to achieve this?
Lastly, when tuning, what do you guys recommend for the base A to be? ex. A=440Hz. I've only ever played compromised tuning, so I don't know much about the characteristics of harps tuned this way.
Thanks in advance!
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jim
274 posts
Aug 08, 2010
2:34 AM
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1) add me on skype (palmhero)
2) go to the link in my signature and to "custom shop" and then to "diy" there.
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www.truechromatic.com
Last Edited by on Aug 08, 2010 11:40 AM
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GermanHarpist
1673 posts
Aug 08, 2010
2:39 AM
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The link 404's...
Btw.. when will you do the video on embossing the rivet side of the reed? I'm waiting impassionately here.. hehe.
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boris_plotnikov
196 posts
Aug 08, 2010
2:58 AM
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http://www.truechromatic.com/
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jim
276 posts
Aug 08, 2010
6:54 AM
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looks like some forum upgrade broke the way links are handled.
Advanced embossing video will be made soon :)
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www.truechromatic.com
Last Edited by on Aug 08, 2010 6:54 AM
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jonlaing
38 posts
Aug 08, 2010
11:35 AM
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btw, those videos on your site are great
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nacoran
2445 posts
Aug 08, 2010
11:43 AM
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jonlaing, yeap, I looked at it and saw the same thing. I fixed the link in his post but I can't edit profiles.
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jonlaing
39 posts
Aug 08, 2010
4:03 PM
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Back to the original question, though. Is that reed that sounds all kinds of horrible busted? or is that just part of the customization process?
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jonlaing
41 posts
Aug 08, 2010
4:46 PM
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alright i figured it out after watching your video on tuning, jim. I realized that I had embossed too much and it prevented the reed from vibrating correctly, so I just filed out the reed slot until it started sound properly.
Thanks.
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jonlaing
42 posts
Aug 08, 2010
6:01 PM
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Oh hey, jim. that drawing thing you do on the reed plate to test the tuning. what is the proper embouchure for that? I'm finding that with a wide embouchure my note is VERY flat, but with a thin embouchure puts it only a cent or two off in either direction.
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jim
277 posts
Aug 08, 2010
10:42 PM
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Whatever embrochure gives the sharpest notes is the best one for tuning.
Don't file the reed slot. I will show a better method soon.
Some notes in the harp are meant to be flatter or sharper unless it is 12ET
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www.truechromatic.com
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jonlaing
43 posts
Aug 09, 2010
12:42 PM
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Okay thanks, looks like I screwed up again... it's okay, I went into this perfectly comfortable with the fact that i was probably going to ruin this harmonica.
For now I was tuning 12ET... I don't really understand the 5-limit or 19-limit stuff... from the little that I was able to read on it, it seems like 19-limit is the most versatile... but again, I don't understand it, so can't execute it.
So I'm assuming the better method is corner rounding? I'm just guessing from what I've read on overblow.com.
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barbequebob
1105 posts
Aug 09, 2010
1:13 PM
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@jonlaing --- Just Intonation has been around centuries longer than ET tuning has been and obviously a lot longer than the harmonica has been around.
Just Intonation favors the chords more, ET favors single notes, comprimise tuning is somewhere in between that.
Unless you have a strobe tuner you can program like a Peterson, most cheapo tuners aren't setup to do anything else but ET. With JI, certain notes of the scale is either flatted or sharpened so that what you have is a true harmony and so the chords will NOT beat/waver at all, wheras on a harmonica, chords on an ET tuned harp will beat like bloody hell, and with a comprimise tuning, it still beats, but nowhere near as harshly.
In tuning JI, like ET, you set up the root note of the harmonica at 0 cents, AKA ET tuning, and for the example, we'll use a key of C and obviously, the C on that key harp is the harp's actual root note (harmonicas were NEVER originally designed to be played inanything except first position). Then you can get all the C's on that set up and like ET tuning, make sure those octaves are equa and don't beat.
In ET tuning, you're basically just tuning individual notes, but with JI, not only do the octaves you do have to sound correct, BUT the other notes in the chord have to be in terms of where the chord plays smoothly with NO beating at all and here's where you cannot just totally rely on the tuner, but need your ears and you have to listen CAREFULLY for when the chord stops beating.
In both 7LJI and 19LJI, the 3rd of the chord is going to be flatter, the 5th of the chord slightly sharper. In 7LJI, the 7th of the draw chord (5 draw) is going to be very flat (28-31 cents flat) and the draw chord is at its purest and smoothest sounding, but it does limit positions.
With 19LJI, the 5 draw is very slightly sharp, and no root note anywhere on the harmonica will be flatter than 14 cents flat MAX and it is important that the standard pitch you tune to is NOT in true A440 because in real playing breath, it's gonna automatically get flatter, and with a really hard player it could be as low as A437, which is REALLY flat.
The 9th on the draw chord in both 7LJI and 19LJI are gonna be slightly sharp.
If you intend to play more positions, the 19LJI is more versatile, but you should remember that the older blues players all used harps in the stock tuning of the time and that was 7LJI. 19LJI is a bit less clear sounding in holes 4-5-6 draw when played together and with 7LJI, but in both cases, the chord does not beat at all. Just listen to diatonics played by Little Walter, Big Walter Horton, both Sonny boys, Cotton and Junior Wells until the mid 80's, Paul Butterfield, and pre-mid 80's Sonny Terry and if you listen carefully, especially when they're playing chords and doublt stops, they're using diatonics all tuned to 7LJI.
I've done JI for so long that for the last 20 years, my ears have been well trained enough to know what to listen for and I don't even use a tuner, just my ears.
If you want to hear some sound samples between ET and both 7LJI and 19LJI, go to http://www.patmissin.com and he has sound files on a key of C harmonica you can listen to.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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