What's more important the ability to get all the bends/overblows and do all the tricky stuff or the ability to be able to improvise and create good sounding melodies and licks?
I've heard some who are technically polished but lack imagination where the tune is concerned and I've heard some who although a little clumsy can pull a tune together and make it sound great with their imaginative melody accompaniment.
I know it's best to have both theses skills if possible, but which one is the most important?
Darn! Just realised how stupid this question is and can guess you answers. I'll leave it anyway in case you want to respond.
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2010 3:15 PM
IMO, it is "phrasing", and this applies to the musicality side.
There is a great "Star Trek: Voyager" episode, where the Doctor becomes a singing sensation on a planet that hade never heard music before. It was a wonder to these aliens with no experience ( or judgement , as it turned out ) with music. They engineered a clone of the Doctor that could produce frequencies and note changes way beyond the Doctor's capabilities. These aliens then thought that this cacophony of noise was fantastic...and they quickly ignored the Doctor and his singing ability.
I like listening to Coltranes "Giant Steps". I don't want to hear it ten times in a row.
I feel technique should follow musicality...and dynamics.
"IMHO, musicality = end, technique = means. Somewhere to go, some way of getting there. S'pose neither means much without the other..."
I understand exactly what you're saying, CaptainBliss, and I agree, but want to massage the idea a bit.
Music, not musicality, is the end.
The goal, always, is to make good music. Musicality is an essential trait every musician needs to make good music. It's as essential as technique. Some are born with a lot of musicality, some are born with a bit, some are born with none. ("I like music, as long as it's got words", said one of my non-musical friends, years ago).
Think of that one friend we all know who is tone deaf-- e.g. she/he cannot sing "Happy Birthday" in key even though everyone else in the room is doing so. That person was born tone deaf; no amount of training is going to change that.
"Congenital amusia (commonly known as "tone deafness") is a lifelong impairment of music perception that affects 4% of the population." --quote from the abstract of the publication "The Genetics of Congenital Amusia (Tone Deafness): A Family-Aggregation Study" published by the International Laboratory for Brain, Music and Sound Research, Montreal, Canada. This is not conclusive proof of anything, but is an indication that academics are wrestling with the issue of heredity/musicality, at least as far as pitch perception is concerned.
Technique without musicality will not produce good music.
The loudest contributor to this forum has said as much, in his own pithy fashion. I agree with him.
Musicality harnessed to a rudimentary technique produces music. How much better would it be, however, if a musician advanced his technique to allow him to give full expression to his musicality? We know the answer.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
*read "his" as "her" whenever necessary, ladies. w.k.
to me you have to be the music. You don't think. You don't try to please. You don't copy others. You spend your life blindly following the sound and it will ease out of you effortlessly, much like breathing does while you sleep. This goes beyond all the individual components mentioned here IMO and the only way to get there is to blindly devote your life to it. That is what seperates the kazillion great technical amatuers/pros from the artist. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Here, here Walter... the music, the harp... it is an extension of yourself. Music flows through you and it. No start, no end, if you are busy thinking about what to play you are not emoting... if you are not emoting you are not playing blues.
When a guy tied a broom wire to the side of a shotgun house and played it with a knife... what manual did he consult?
I think you have to have a certain amount of technique just so you can say what you want to say. After that,it's all about making good music-period. Good music is a pretty subjective term,but I think most people know when something's "musical".
I think it depends on context. If you are playing for people such as many on this forum it is mostly technique and musicality [IMO] goes out the window. If you are playing for Joe Public they are interested in musicality, what your technique for playing the tune is, is irrelevant, they don't know or care if you are playing in 2nd position or 7th position with loads of OBs etc. For JP, does it pass the old grey whistle test? ie can the old grey haired man whistle the tune afterwards.
Big Nancy-- I agree with you. Emoting is everything.
Other ways it's been said-- you gotta have feel, you gotta have soul, you gotta play from your heart, emotion is everything, etc.
However it's said, what we blues freaks know is that technique without emotion is nothing.
Emotion without technique? Pretty good, but emotion WITH technique is even better, right? Coming right back to the answer provided by Captain Bliss.
If I were forced to choose, I'm in the camp that values emotion over technique. meaning I'm with Joe Public, as described by Lumpy Wafflesquirt. I'd rather produce, and listen to, technically crude music full of emotion than technically sophisticated music devoid of emotion.
Before anyone jumps on me, I accept that the perception of emotion is in the ear of the listener. Music that I think is flat may be the most emotional, moving music the rest of you have ever heard. It's all a matter of taste.
Walter Tore-- "You don't try to please".. I agree with you. I've had my best moments, musically, when I didn't try to please anyone when I played. I mean anyone-- not my fellow band members, not the audience. Have a look what I wrote about that, here:
If you're too busy to look, here's the last paragraph:
"You should always try to be true to yourself as a musician; as an artist. This is the rule for me, although I appreciate for others their first focus is to entertain the audience. I say, if you please yourself, you will please the audience."
Big Nancy-- listen to this song, "Merry Christmas Baby", from a CD our band made at Christmas, 2009. It's full of emotion. The singer/piano player is too talented for our little town of 11,000 here in Northern Canada, but she hasn't figured that out. I'm glad, 'cause I get to play with her. I'm too talented too (he said modestly), but I've had my moment in the sun and am happy to fade slowly in our little town.
But, I digress. Here's the song, If you have to go straight to the harp (totally acoustic) it starts at about 1:50:
I had a listen wolf and yes, you are one of those that doesn't need to worry about technique or musicality because you appear to have both. I could feel the emotion in your playing and could sense you were pouring your heart into the piece.
The only slight problem I had were the lyrics which didn't seem apropriate for a bluesy tune. I don't think Santa has got the right to come down any chimney in a blues session.
But, that's just a personal preference.
If we're going to throw examples in the mix, here's one I have a problem with. I know the technique leaves a lot to be desired but my problem seems to be that I start out blue but during the course of the tune it turns to purple and then right through to red and I'm bopping along to a happy non-blues-like tune. I just can't seem to get the blues proper.
Tooka, I think that this is a really good question - even though you didn't think so yourself.
Somebody commented on my youtube profile that I appear to be pretty stupid so he doesn't believe I'm interested in philosophy. To prove him wrong (about the philosophy), my answer would be that the question is out of context: There isn't technique separated from musicality and there ain't no musicality separated from the technique. I mean it's like asking whether the ear is more important than the sound that is perceived in the process of listening..
The music is perceived by listening, and produced with different techniques. The context is everything - one simple note in right place and right audience makes the day, whereas the worlds best jazz band can be thrown out of stage in the environment where the audience doesn't understand what they are doing.
So everything is connected - the instrument, the player, the technique, the lived life of the musician and the audience, the time and the place, the context, the ears and the devices producing the sounds - they can't be really be separated. It is the whole that matters, not the artificially separated parts of the whole. ;)
Hi tookatooka, thanks for listening to my song, and thanks for raising the issue of technique/musicality in the first place. It's an important issue, and you needn't have second-guessed yourself when you first posted.
About your blues turning purple and red, that's the beauty of blues-- it can be any emotion, including happy. Whatever you are, let it come out. Your playing sounded great to me. "Playing with feeling" does not mean, to me, playing in a melancholic fashion.
tookatooka: I listened to your song. I don't know how long you have been playing, but it made me think that you have spent time on learning the technical layout of the harp. From what I hear you are moving ahead too fast- trying to learn too much/play too much, too quick. I would stick to just a few bottom holes and get some solid stuff going on them. For blues the bottom end is where the real guts lie. The rhythms, bends, and pharasings. the higher end is what these new guys like Jason play alot of with overblows and different tuned harps. From what you said you are wanting to find the blues groove. These newer players really don't live it much IMO and a bunch of them seem to have some sort of a dislike of the harp because they are always trying to change it into something it isn't. They are calling it modern. I reckon whatever turns you on is the way to go but I don't get it because if I had desires like them, I would pick up the sax, guitar, piano. This what drove me to learn other instruments. You can do all that on those instruments because they were built to do such things. The harp is a great instrument, but it will never compete with a true sax, guitar, or piano in trying to be like them, just like a guitar can never compete with a sax or piano, or harp, in trying to be like one. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Hay Pah?,,What son,,you know music?,,Yeh son What's more important, technique or musicality?
Father Laughs Son remember when you where potty training,,,,Puzzeld son Yeh Dad?
well untill you got your technique right you where just pissing all over the place son,on the floor ya Bloddy leg up the wall it was a Bloody mess:(
Now look son Ya can just whip the Old Fella out every things Flowing in the right direction and you don't even have to look what ya doin perfect technique:)
---------- Don't piss on the music Cheers
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2010 6:32 AM
Tooka - I'd suggest two things. 1. Work on your blue third, and the full 3 draw half-step bend. To my ears this is the defining note for 2nd position blues playing. Get that solid and everthing else starts to make sense. Adam has some great clips up on this very topic
2. Occasionally you slip just a little out of the groove, or don't vary your phrasing enough againts it. I don't get the sense that you're really feeling it - are you tapping your foot for instance? Try really concentrating on timing, and work with phrases that are fractionally before or after the beat - Adam (again) and Ronnie Shellist cover this topic well
@wolf @walter @Gambler. First off thanks for your comments, I really value your advice. Thank you.
I've been playing a touch over three years and consider myself still to be a newbie to harp. I appreciate the input because I have always loved hearing the harp in blues and took it up because I wanted to learn an instrument for my own enjoyment.
I know it can take years to master it but thought I'd better check to ensure that I had a bit of musicality in me. There's no point putting the time in to learn it IMO if all I'm going to do is copy that which has gone before. I'd rather be creative with this tool even though I may not have mastered all of it's intracacies yet.
I know I have trouble with the blue third and all the bends on draw 3 @Gambler, I was hoping it wasn't quite so noticeable. I have been working on that lately and find it quite difficult at the moment. Your comment has prompted even deeper study. Thank you.
And regarding using the lower octave more @walter, I agree, I think it's due to lack of imagination in the lower octave that I run up to the upper octaves. It's probably a cop-out I need to concentrate on more. Many thanks, I always enjoy your posts.
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2010 7:41 AM
tookatooka: You are welcome! As far as musicality goes you are the sole judge of that. Everyone is equally qualified to say something is musical or not. If you feel it inside you got it. Don't compare yourself to others. That is an never ending scenario. What is most comforting with my musical approach is I have no one to compare to. I would be seriously rattled if I did a standard approach to music, kind of like the fastest gun in the west. there is always someone faster..... Dig your music, dig your own universe. It is you and no one else can touch it. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
TookaX2- You certainly have enough technique to make good music. As has been said work on the blue 3rd and 3 hole bends and also know when to bend the 4 draw. How much blues music do you listen to? I think you have to immerse yourself in the language of the blues in order to speak it well.
I remember reading somewhere (and I apologize for not properly attributing the quote) that for most listeners, rhythm and timing is more important than playing the right notes. In other words, if you pick the wrong key for the song, it's less likely to sound wrong if your timing, phrasing and rhythm is in accord with the song. Conversely, if you're in the right key but you're playing out of rhythm and in the wrong places/times it's much more likely to sound awful and the audience will definitely notice. To me, the rhythm/timing thing is analogous to musicality and the key of the harp thing is technique. Not a perfect analogy, but it works for me, especially when I realize at the end of a song that I've had the wrong key the whole time!
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2010 11:45 AM
@waltertore: I really like your attitude about music, it is an inspiration! You mentioned how you feel like some people try to change harp to something else and couldn't understand why not pick up some other instrument better suited for that. Well, I like to share some personal experience about that.
I used to play guitar when I was younger and I really got some kind of obsession to get faster and better at it, trying to imitate Y.J.Malmsteen, Steve Vai, Paganini etc, which lead to cubital tunnel syndrome. It meant that I couldn't play that instrument anymore as it lead to pains in my left arm. I tried to change style to more finger picking style etc but eventually I had to give up the guitar altogether.
So what I did was to try out other instruments cause I had this urge to express myself musically somehow. I tried the sax & piano but couldn't play those as they too stressed the left arm and made the chronic injury hurt. So I had to find out an instrument that I could play with just the right hand - I tried pan pipes, didgeridoo, trumpet and eventually harmonica. What made me choose the harp over those other instruments was it's bending abilities - I felt it was more expressive than the other instruments. And so I started to listen more blues and fell in love with that.
However, as I have advanced with the harp I feel like I have more to give than just the blues and thus I want to expand the harp so that I can play it chromatically - because it's the only way I can bring out the stuff that I feel inside. So you see, in my case it's not possible to pick up the sax or piano. I could play e.g. the trumpet, but it feels that it is easier to expand the harp than utilize more time to the trumpet playing. I don't know, perhaps I will eventually practice more trumpet too, but today the harp is the means to get the music out of me! :)
On the other hand, Little Walter changed the direction of harp playing by playing harmonica more like a sax and if you were to listen to a ton of big band, jump, and swing stuff, which he listened to heavily, you can clearly hear where a lot of his stuff came from.
Musicians who play all different instruments have borrowed heavily from other instruments. CHarlie Christian did as well as T-Bone from horns for their guitar playing. Otis Rush borrowed heavily from B3 players, so to say it doesn't sound like a harmonica anymore is an old argument that has been used against all instruments and the harmonica is no different until you see more of it in the mainstream and then it becomes more widely accepted as part of the language of the instrument.
Technique is a means to and end and musicality is the end and unless you're playing to an audience that's made up of entirely over critical, ridiculously zealous harp nazis, then the bottom line for most people is the overall musicality and what the thing you do has to say AKA express and slamming the audience with every technique you know how to play can at times get really boring to most audiences and then it becomes what's called "musician music" and that's when you become guilty of playing AT the audience rather than TO and FOR the audience and the other way around that most audiences are gonna relate to can be called "people music."
Technique is important but it is NOT an ed all be all by a long shot an musicality in the end rules.
Throwing the kitchen sink at everyone is much easier than playing understated and making notes count and say something without wasting notes and that also requires two very important things:
a.) learning how to work WITH the groove rather than fighting it and;
b.) making space work for you so that when you do use more of a cluster of notes, the effect doesn't get lost because you've already been playing (AKA) non stop talking like a crooked used car salesman. Understating takes a lot more work that over playing does. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
apskarp: Your story is an inspiration! I totally support your journey. What confuses me is why people that can learn to play other instruments, try to tweak a harp to something that will never compare to other instruments. It takes all kinds to make the world go round. I fly radio control sailplanes. A flying buddy I had in Texas would buy those $5 walmart foam gliders that looked like a 747. He spent years trying to get them to fly with radio gear and servos in them. They never did hardly fly and he spent tons of time and money on the quest. It made him feel good so I respect it. I just realized what bugs me about some guys that are trying to turn the harp into things it was not built to be is, they often put down guys like me that play stock out of the box harps. We are viewed as simple minded and them the innovative creative genius of our day. Thanks for helping me get clarity on this matter! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Sorry I'm late getting back to you but Wolf... you are on to it. You are standing at the vortex of the feeling of the song or groove and your own emotions. Then you just let it flow... you don't have to think. Musicality and technique come together in spite of you.
I play by ear... it develops sensory dependence which is a bit like blind folks' sensibility. Any technique I have came through osmosis. Just pointing out that there is more than one way to learn to play.
Took... I think that you may be thinking too much and playing too many notes. You seem to be leaning forward, perhaps constricting your airways, tensely bouncing along with the beat and trying to mimic it. What you are playing is not bad... but I wonder what would happen if you just moved down to the low end of the harp, leaned back, put your head up a bit and opened all of your airways, and then just drew the hell out of two or three long notes. Stick a bend or a wah on those three notes and you may have what you are looking for.
Bouncing a long with the beat will give you a Polka sound, playing off of the beat may lead you to the Blue Buddha! ----------
Hi Big Nancy, I really appreciate your comments, thank you so very much. I will certainly be trying to incorporate your Suggestions into my playing. It's fascinating for me to see you pick up on things that I'd never thought of eg. leaning forward. It's absolutely invaluable to get the insight of a professional and I thank you very much.
Stand aside Howard Levy, I'm a pushing my way towards the front of the queue. Only kidding :)
Last Edited by on Aug 02, 2010 2:34 AM
hey Tooka, glad the comment was useful though it sounds like you knew it already. I had another listen and noticed that you tend to use the 7 draw (C# on your D harp), on the upper register I'd suggest using the 7 draw very infrequently if you want to sound bluesy - it's the same note as the 3 draw, so will always have that major feel.
Thanks GamblersHand, yeah that 3 draw is still paining me. I know it's a very versatile hole but I have a lot of trouble with it. As I say much more practice is required. I've been practicing third position lately and found that the 3 draw with its bends is vital for the lower register so I really do have to master that one before I can go much further.
Thanks for the 7 draw comments too. I wasn't aware of that so I'll need to look further into that one too.
And I thought after buying my first harp, I'd crack it in a couple of weeks. Boy! was I ever wrong.
Thanks for taking the time to respond further it was very kind of you and I appreciate it greatly. Thanks.
hey Tooka - no worries And yep, it's taken me a long time to get the 3 draw bends happening - I've been playing a long time, 20 years or so, and it's only in the last year that I've become comfortable with my intonation on the 3 draw bend. A well gapped and sealed harp really helps. Early on like most beginner-intermediates I could play cross harp ok but would just play the 3 draw as a passing note - slightly bent but with variable intonation Nowadays as an advanced intermediate I'm still not consistent with the slightly sharp "blue third" vs the minor third, but getting there.
I wish someone had sat me down 20 years ago and told me how important the blue third is for cross harp.
Also the full-step 3 draw bend (the 2nd in cross harp) is a great note, and particularly important as you say for 3rd position and I-VI-II-V songs
I don't use the step & a half bend on the 3 draw (flat 2nd) much, though working on a vibrato between this and the full step bend - works great for 3rd position, well will do with a lot more practice...
Took, I want to quantify what I said about bouncing with the beat.... it applies to your skill level, sense of rhythm and what you were attempting to do in this video.
Eventually you can get back to playing with the beat... in nice tight rhythm patterns.. like train sounds etc. But for now, because you are seeking a bluesier sound it may be best to play around with long draws and bending at the low end of the harp. This is where the bluesiest tone lives. ----------
Hope I'm not pushing my luck but here's a response I made to a challenge from one of the guys on here. It's slower, and I did use more of the lower notes. There's still a few errors but I'm working on it still. I think it's an improvement over the previous one. I was concentrating on musicality more than technique.
Much better Took... in terms of blues feel. But I think you could get better... My suggestion at this point would be to get a hold of some Sonny Terry... very elemental stuff... like White Boy Lost In the Blues or Blowin the Fuses... and stick with the elemental parts of those tunes. Do not try to go with Sonny when he goes off... not for now anyway.
Also, look at films of people from the early deep American South. Art imitates life! Picture the way they move, talk , walk, dance.... try to capture that rhythm in your minds eye. It may help you to understand the groove a little better. And try to play to tunes that are a little more greasy.... the track here is kind of dry. Please do not be offended by what I will say next.. bear in mind I am trying to push you... to coach you. The emotion that you are putting into this segment seems to me to be a bit over dramatized... and it is in your head but not necessarily connecting to the music (wow, something that you hear on Am Idol, sorry...). Like I said the track is a bit dry, so I understand that, but you cant fake it... either the music moves you or it doesn't. It should hit you in the chest and tingle down your spine... if you only hear it with your noggin... change the record!
Real emoting in the musical sense has to come from the excitement you derive from it's elements. The funkier the song... the funkier you are likely to play.
Dont get me wrong, I think you are off to a great start! You have a lot of good qualities here, but anyone who asks me "how am I doin..." will always get pushed to do more. We can all sleep when we're dead! ----------
Last Edited by on Aug 02, 2010 2:36 PM
Wow Nancy! Thanks. Very valuable lessons here for me, thank you. I take on board what you say and will seek out the Sonny Terry tracks you suggest.
The dramatics you noticed, well you were right, they were in my head because at the time I thought it sounded ok, but it's only on reviewing afterwards that I'm more aware of the shortcommings. My eyes were closed to cut out any distraction I think.
Darn! It's not enough to hear the music now I've got to feel it too. I thought it was going to be so easy.
Thanks Nancy. I have a long journey ahead of me but it's so very encouraging to know that at least you think I'm heading in the right direction. That means a lot to me. The last three harp years have not been easy by any stretch of the imagination. Thank you.
Tooka - yes, some good stuff there - I've already stolen the riff you play at around the 1.55 - 2.00 mark!
A few technical things I'd comment on if you're interested - to my ears you're still playing a few notes that aren't especially bluesy, particularly the 5 blow in that last track. That's a useful note but as it's not on the blues scale on any of the I, IV, or the V so it will usually sound less dark, less "blues". Try a few of those runs where you swap the 5 blow for the 5 draw, you'll see where I'm getting at.
I think that you could also vary your starting point for your riffs, which is predominantly the 4 draw. You could also use the lower part of the harp further - I can't recall you using the 1 draw or 1 blow for instance, and you could hold some of these notes for longer - the 2/4/5 draw notes work ok against all the changes so wail away
Lastly I'd recommend you start approaching these songs by concentrating on the triplet feel behind them. Count the beats, perhaps play the 2 draw on the triplet beat to get the groove. This will maybe give a few different rhythmic or phrasing ideas, or a guide to the length of note to use
Thanks a lot GamblersHand. Yes they are all constructive comments and I am very grateful. I think between yourself and BigNancy I have enough to work on that will keep me busy for a couple of months at least. I'm already hearing an improvement and getting a more bluesy feel. Can't wait to get it all together and post some more vids when I feel I'm there. Thanks again.
Tookatooka, spending time getting the time straight and learning to feel the groove are VERY important and far too often neglected aspects of playing. Keep your foot tapping is an excellent aid towards that and feeling the groove and keeping it together is too often thought as only a job for the rhythm section AKA bass and drummers to do and that's a HUGE crock of BS because it is EVERYONE'S job.
Learning to get a keen sense of groove can not be overestimated and learning to feel it is very important.
The 5 blow when used in a more jump or swing blues groove works (and for a little bit of music theory, that's a 6th), or a less bluesy, AKA unbent 3 draw also works in more jazzy feel as does using a major 7th, and in 2nd position, 2 draw 1st bend, which on a C harp played in G, that note would be F#, and that is also used for a more jazzy or ballad like feel.
What does all this mean? The groove and feel is very important to learn because what's right in one thing is wrong in others as just a single note can and will completely change the entire feel of the groove and how it plays out. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Aug 03, 2010 10:46 AM
You need emotion to sound emotional. You need enough musicality to sound musical to other people, and you need enough technique to get what you are playing to sound like the emotion and music that's playing in your head.
If by technique, you mean the ability to play fast runs, then no, it is not the most important.
But, if you mean 1) The ability to play the blues scale with decent intonation 2) The technique of being able to know what is happening in the chords that are being played behind you 3) Understanding how to build expectation by using repetition with variation 4) The technique of knowing what is going to sound good over specified changes
Then, you have no musicality without technique. Musicality IS a technique. Kinda like learning how to swim. Some learn many strokes and swim fast. Others don't. But you need the tech so you don't sink.
As for going fast, overblows, etc...those are just more arrows in your quiver once you master them.
Apskarp's answer is shrewd and correct. The question posed by the OP, which parses "music" into two self-evident parts--"technique" and "musicality"--and demands that we arrange them hierarchically, is attempting to understand music from the standpoint of one who already sits wholly (if unconsciously) on the side of "technique." A person who came from the "musicality" side wouldn't pose the question in such a cut-and-dried way.
The most important part of playing good blues harmonica is the giblets, and also knowing how to make and eat the stuffing. Or maybe it's just about the gin, cotton and otherwise.
What a player needs more than anything is to develop an "Ear for Music". This cannot be taught, learned, or read in a book. It must be acquired or brought out.
OK, I am going to interject here again and I know I am absolutely repeating myself... but I think for good reason. This forum is definitely Techno driven... for very good reason... the best way to learn a thing is from beginning to end and by the numbers. I'll give you that. But I know that there are players out there that are feeling distanced from this forum (I have been contacted by a few) because they simply cannot relate to technical methods of learning. I would hate for them to feel disconnected from the family of harmonica players. I had no teacher, read no book, followed no instruction..... and yet I am able to hold my own in this field. My technique was absorbed through musicality... and gathered like moss on a rolling stone. Granted self instruction can leave gaps in your abilities... but it can also produce great nuance that classic or technical learning might beat out of a force guided player.
I felt compelled to put this out there one more time Adam (ao thanks for your patience), for play by ear players, and to invite them to contact me at my website if they would like my assistance. I would be happy to do what ever I can to guide them along. I repeat there is more than one way to learn this thing.
Make no mistake, I have great respect for technique driven players and I am enjoying spending time here with you all and observing your methods.
The beutiful thing is that there is room for all of us here at MBH! ----------
@waltertore "I just realized what bugs me about some guys that are trying to turn the harp into things it was not built to be is, they often put down guys like me that play stock out of the box harps. We are viewed as simple minded and them the innovative creative genius of our day."
Walter, I admire your sound, your music, your songwriting, and I very much appreciate your words of wisdom from someone that has been there, done that, and understands the big picture. I don't respond much,but I do read a lot of your quotes and responses. I'm sorry that there are those that would belittle you about playing the harp YOU play, the way YOU want to play it. You seem to happy and having fun doing your thing, so I do not know why anyone would comment in a negative way. I'm almost 50 and have been having the time of my life the last four years since I started playing harmonica. Rarely do I miss a day. I loved James Cotton from day one. I bet I've watched that "Slow Blues" vid as much as anyone. Did I know he was tongue blocking? Had never heard of it. I just liked what I heard. I met Jason Ricci a few weeks after I started playing. He explained to me what overbends were. I just liked what I heard. Hill Country was my first exposure to one man bands. What Adam, Deak, Terry, and Brandon did fascinated me. I'm jumpmg into the one man band thing. May never be any good, but I'll have fun doing my thing. If a new player hears something he really likes, why wouldn't he want to learn from it. Don't you develop taste and style from what you are exposed to? As far as what the harmonica was built to be...wasn't it built for 1st position? These guys that developed overbends are no where near the innovative genius as the first guy to play 12 bar blues in second position on a diatonic harmonica. I love it all! Much respect to you Walter,
This is an interesting topic. Wish I had time to read it all. Some of this stuff applies to me which has been said:
"if you are busy thinking about what to play you are not emoting... " - Big Nancy
"you are moving ahead too fast- trying to learn too much/play too much, too quick." - waltertore
I've been practicing lots of scales, techniques, overblows, but there's things I suck at even if I can play in multiple positions & read sheet music. My tone needs work as does my continued work on vibrato but most of all I have difficulty playing with a band/jam track. My mind races ahead and worries all about right and wrong notes & everything I play gets rushed.
So believe it or not I'm thinking musicality in this instance is more important. I've heard Buddha play some kick ass stuff with just 3 notes! So I'm trying to get a little back to the basics myself.
I'm hoping playing with lots of guys at SPAH in a few weeks really helps me learn to mesh with music and kill that flood of anxiety I feel when playing for others.
---------- ~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Nancy: I post here as another self taught, ear player. Like you, correct me if I am wrong, I feel compelled to keep this tradition alive because one size never fits all. The people we learned from were of similar training and it seems to be a dying art. I also offer my two cents to anyone interested.
Duane: thanks for the note! Typing words is never a great way to get a point across. What I was trying to say is american roots music (except jazz) has been developed with the harp in mind one might say. If one wants to go into jazz and classical there are a lot of other instruments that will express ones ideas a lot easier and in most cases, better, that were developed with those things in mind. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2010 3:18 PM
