Nobody seems willing to discuss this mysterious technique in any detail, I've tried to work it out on my own but just can't get anywhere. In a recent post DeakHarp mentioned something about James Cotton and diaphragm vibrato. I need this technique for bent notes, throat vibrato is just too sweet, doesn't cut it. Help me please :)
I've been training that with singing - although there are schools of voice where they say even singers use either throat tremolo or then vibrato which is produced by changing the pitch slightly up and down. On the other hand there are teachers who say that the vibrato (actually tremolo) is done right by the diaphragm. The current technique I'm using (CVT) is such that you shouldn't "pump" the diaphragm and so I'm kind of letting go of that vibrato..
I have found that I actually often use the pitch changing + diaphragm/throat together while producing the vibrato when singing. That is easier to detect when playing harp - or at least you get some different viewpoint to it which is helpful.
With harp I consciously practice the pitch changing vibrato with tongue/jaw, the throat vibrato and diaphragm vibrato. Diaphragm vibrato seems to be the hardest one as there are so much power in that muscle which is hard to control in accurately. For me it is easier to do while blowing (probably because I practice that with singing) and even easier while tongue blocking as then there seems to be more "resistance" that you can feel and play with.
EDIT: Actually now that I try it, I notice that I can do it pretty ok with drawing also - at least with lower harps...
What I'd strongly urge you to do is what I tell all harp players to do is go to a vocal coach and get some breathing exercises from them because they teach that and relaxation as a matter of course and many people have really bad breathing habits and these can be easily translated to harp playing. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
To develop this technique, it helps if one is able to articulate separation between notes by starting and stopping air flow with the diaphragm instead of using the tip of the tongue. Being able to consistently articulate separation between notes using the diaphragm develops control and, btw, I think it produces a smoother and fatter attack quite apart from any vibrato.
Play triplets with an accent on the first note of each triplet. Start slow. ONLY PLAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN WHILE STILL KEEPING CONTROL OVER THE TRIPLET. The accent is there to keep you honest. When you can play faster bring the speed up and down. Sit up straight you should feel the pull in your diaphram. Do not cut the breath. The triplet will become like a wave inside a continuos sound. ----------
diaphragm vibrato was the only inhale vibrato I could do for the first 2.5 years of my playing. I could do throat vibrato on the blows, but not the draws. Then one day, when I was doing inhale vibrato, I realized that I was now doing throat vibrato! Somehow, I switched my vibrato style over a small period of time without me noticing it! I can still do diaphragm vibrato whenever i want.
Re: How to actually DO diaphragm vibrato. I think it is really effective for making a "swampy" sound when you are doing long-held chords. Basically you have to make your diaphragm "shake", as if you had a muscle twitch. One way to "force" it to do that is to inhale as much as you can while playing a draw chord. When you get really full, just keep trying to shove more air in. Your diaphragm will start to shudder (at least mine does), and you'll be doing diaphragm vibrato! Then you just have to memorize that feeling, and learn to do it anytime. ---------- ------------------ View my videos on YouTube!"
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2010 12:59 PM
Totally mystified by vibrato (just started practicing it today!). I'm a singer, and I do a lot of vibrato while singing but can't seem to translate it to harp.
Practicing the exercise Adam gives on one of his videos (inward coughing on the 2 draw for seven beats, then outbreath one beat), reminds me of some of the yoga breathing exercises (pranayama) I do when I get up in the morning. Kind of like a backwards 'breath of fire' if anyone is familiar.
Oh well. Got a feeling it will all come together mysteriously one day when I least expect it. Gonna whoop and holler and dance a little jig when that happens.
@ rucker_z :) Gotta love those moments, the glorious breakthrough!
Thanks for the advice guys :) I can sing quite a bit and have good general control over my diaphragm, or at least I'd like to think... Will try some of these exercises and see how I get on! Have a feeling good ole perserverance will pay off, just like it did with the tongue-blocked blowbends!
One way to practice diaphragm tremolo is to say ha-ha-ha-ha (kind of like laughing). You can do it inhaling also. Some eastern music singers use that tremolo a lot with very fast amplitude, it has distinctive sound. If I remember correctly Edith Piaf used that too...
Like Isacullah said .. You will feel yur belly shake .. If you open yur whole throat and open the pasage straight down to the Diahapram ... While in a totaly relaxed mode and let all the things happen at once ... while drawing a 2 hole tonic note ...The Vibrato will happen .. Keeping it in time with the Beat/Music is a whole nuther ball game ... I like to keep mine in time with the beat and slow it down .. resolving on the down beat as i go slower ...and slower , at the end of a song ...The Tone is so Big ..... Tone is somthing that i still try to perfect ....But if you work all those mussels together and learn how to breath right like BBQ Bob said ... and get a Vocal Coach ... It helped me ..
The need for your body and that means ALL of your muscles, including throat, diaphragm, facial, jaw, and EVERYTHING all HAVE to be working completely in sync and the minute ANY muscle or part of your body is uptight, even for a nano second, you automatically do what the average player tends to do, and that's put themselves FAR behind the 8-ball because they're making things NEEDLESSLY more difficult for themselves AKA being their own worst enemy.
I went to a vocal coach and NOT ONCE have I ever regretted it because it was not only good for my vocals but the POSITIVE effect that it had on playing harmonica is enormous and cannot be overstated.
I'm willing to bet that if at least 10 people went to a vocal coach, at least 9 of them will find out that just their breathing technique for every day living, let alone for vocals or harmonica is FAR below ideal and at least 7-9 of those 10 also play very physicially uptight and once you have ANY part of you physically uptight, the air passages become heavily constricted, often by as much as 75-80% than it should be, forcing you to use more breath force, but along with that, 80% of it gets completely wasted, so even with more force, you will NEVER get much real volume, projection, or play resonantly at all and I find that this is very true for the average player and to avoid playing physically uptight is something players need to work on to do ANYTHING is something needed to be done ASAP. Yep, it DOES affect EVERYTHING you do in a major way. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I too went to a vocal coach to help with my singing, as Bob found, it had a marked effect on my harp playing & tone too. Not all the techniques are directly transferrable, but it gets you thinking on ways to improve & maximise your potential.
Out of curiosity if someone were looking for a vocal coach to work with what you suggest what could we tell the teacher that we want to work with them on? I guess just ask them if they can teach how to breathe with diaphragm instead of shallow chest breaths? Just so we find the right person, ya know? Also, how many lessons would you suggest that takes?
Someone else pointed out to me that incorrect breathing can cause anxiety too. ---------- ~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Before any vocal coach does anything with you, the very first things they do is check your breathing and relaxation technique and start from there and if they don't, stay far away from them because much like for harmonica, vocal tone needs proper breath support and a fully relaxed body in order to sing resonantly with the fullest tone possible. In many ways, a reputable vocal coach almost doesn't need to be asked those questions because those are things they want to see before getting started, much like a really good instrument teacher auditions you to see where you're at before they can plan lessons tailored for where you're at in terms of ability and what they feel is necessary for you.
As far as how many lessons, that's gonna be up to each and every individual because everyone's situation is gonna be different and some poeple catch on quick and some are very slow almost to the point where you may need a sledge hammer to beat it into them (hopefully not).
I went in for both and found out problems with my vocal tone had more to do with how I was manipulating the shape of the inside of my mouth so that the vowels would sound our properly and no air was getting wasted in the process and I had around 6 months worth of lessons and the bulk of it had more to do with breathing and with the vocal parts of it, the shaping of the inside of the mouth and the lips for the formation of the vowels, and I then adapted these things to harp playing, such as doing somethings in reverse and it was amazing to see how much LESS air I needed to get a better overall tone for both vocals AND harmonica.
A big part of breathing for vocals IS diaphragmatic breathing and for the first month of doing those exercises, you'll be using that muscle for the first time and trust me, it's gonna be sore as hell because 75% of people on the planet almost NEVER use it all, but the soreness eventually goes away as the muscle gets used to being used more frequently.
You will also (in the vocal exercises) learn to hold a note for a fairly long period of time with use of the diaphragm and learn how to let the air out SLOWLY and NOT FORCED, which unfortunately, describes the majority of harp players to a T. These will hurt a little at first, but eventually, you get so used to it that it becomes largely second nature.
Incorrect breathing causing anxiety is very true and as someone, much like Paul Oscher and Toots Thielemans, I also have asthma and proper breathing cannot be overemphasized.
About 20 years ago, there was a book that has been long out of print called "Total Breathing" by Richard Smith, that had over 100 different types of breathing exercises, tho none of them had anything to do with either music or even sports for that matter, but just breathing exercises for everyday living and if you find it, get it, and in doing them, you'd be amazed at how much proper breathing really helps you out.
The average person often uses very little of their actual lung capacity, often just BARELY using the top third at best, and often wasting most of it.
Hope this helps. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2010 1:34 PM
it helps me barbq bob-I do yoga regurlarly and breathing is VERY important in this practice @ hill country harmonica both billy branch and billy gibson held draw notes unbelieveable length of time it leads me to believe that this is a technique in breathing that needs to be learned
In order to do those long holds, breath control is vitally important and using too much breath force on the holds completely kills any and ALL hope of being able to do them at all. I remember seeing Carey Bell holding a note on an uptempo blues for 28 bars and I know he clearly wasn`t playing hard at all and because the average player often plays too hard all the time, they`d be lucky to be able to hold a note longer than 3 or 4 at the most before feeling totally winded. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Breathing for vocalists done properly IS diaphragmatic breathing and being 100% physically relaxed at ALL times is extremely important for having, as my former vocal coach told me, a very open throat, which happens when you're 100% relaxed and so ALL of your air passages are fully wide open, allowing greater amounts of air, but with 80% less force needed to properly support the vocal tone and this very same thing applies to the harmonica as well, and when all this is working COMPLETELY in sync, your sound projects better, the tone is vastly improved, you NEVER get winded, and you play (just like the vocals) resonantly and the average player flat out doesn't do that when they're doing ANYTHING while physically uptight at all.
The opening 4 bars of that Big Walter solo is NOT cut off by his breath, but by his tongue as the only way to get the accenting right on that solo is to tongue block it and he's not holding the note out and he's playing physicially softer than you think he is. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2010 8:40 PM
Good for you Bob, you are totally on message. Half the struggle with harp playing and vocalisation is learning NOT to strain; just letting it happen. If it doesn't happen then just SHUT UP. Or at least don't strain, even with metal.
Imagine the bagpipes: your diaphragm is the wind bag and your vocal chords are the chanter. The chest plays NO PART except for expression..
This was the exact clip I had running through my head when I started this topic! Been trying to emulate it as best I can, but as askharp was saying, because its such a large and powerful muscle, its really hard to get good cnstant control over it.
Ok, so I figured out how to post streaming sound files, with Nacoran's help.
Tremolo and Vibrato, two different concepts, two different sounds. I do both from my diaphragm. Tremolo pops up more often in my blow notes, vibrato in my draw notes.
Anyways, here are two clips, about five years old, that I made for some friends in Australia. The first is absolutely rudimentary, just one note played clean, tremolo'ed and vibratoe'd. Have a listen to both. I'm off to a two person gig this Saturday night, three if you count the drum machine, and will be back in about five hours.
There's also a thing a lot newbies and intermediate players have a tendency to do that never fails to make things difficult for themselves and that is doing the military style breathing, which may be OK for a more cooly macho thing as far as looking more "hunky" (and even that when I see some people do it sometimes makes them look anything but that) and I often see guys do this whenever a good looking woman passes by and then they do that thing to look more impressive trying to hide a huge beer gut that sticks about a foot over their belt buckles.
This may be OK in the military, but for vocals AND harmonica playing, this is the WRONG thing to do because it only makes you physically uptight and heavily constricts your air passages and everything projects horribly and the tone tends to be noticeably thinner.
This was also something that was pointed out to me by a vocal coach when I took lessons with that coach and when she caught me doing that, she couldn't get on my case fast enough and UNlearning that paid dividends and I find tons of harp players doing this all the time, and that makes diamphragmatic breathing damned near impossible to do. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2010 12:01 PM
