A friend has recently started playing guitar - strumming, light rock mostly, like Tracy Chapman and some of the calmer, ballad-type Chili Peppers stuff. I'd like to jam along, but pretty much all I can do at the moment is blues. Obviously I'll do my best to force him to play blues, but I'd like to be able to jam along with his stuff too (Larry David: 'The definition of compromise is that both parties are equally unsatisfied.') I don't want to sit there blowing random notes dylanly in first position. I really don't know how to find a harp part for that kind of thing. So, can anyone give me a starting point or suggest who should I listen to for ideas?
I'm not sure how much this will help, but Tracy's Gimme One Reason is a straight ahead I,IV,V blues in F# I think (BTW I love that song). most guitar players would probably say the rythm part is fairly easy to play. So maybe cross harp on a B flat you can fool around with a little comping with some simple blues licks-wailing notes....might sound good. Or if you can find the guitar tabs to the lead guitar part you might try to play the lead guitar part on harp (by ear if you're good enough).
I realize i'm not giving you much here... just trying to help... I have been (and still am to a large extent) in your shoes with this type of problem.
Disclaimer: not sure of the key harp...I'm usually fine with the C - G....or A - D type translation but when the sharps and flats get involved I get a little messed up. Not to worry..I know someone will correct me and offer perhaps a better approach.
1. Get the chord progressions of the songs you want to play
2. Work out the chord tones of each of these chords.
3. Find the harmonica of best fit for these chord tones (make / refer to a notes-on-harmonicas chart)
4. Practice playing through the chord changes with chords (if available) and chord tones, do your best to make a really simple part (same idea as really simple strumming on a guitar)
5. Now... Can you use these chord tones to make a bass line? A keyboard part? A horn part? A floaty flute?
6. For each song, ask yourself / your musical partner whether the song is best presented by
(i) harmonica all the way through
(ii) harmonica being introduced for part of the song to build it (say, in the chorus)
(iii) harmonica just as a solo
(iv) a harmonica intro
etc etc
7. is lucky!
Sunny smiles!
EDIT: if things like "chord tones" don't make much sense, here's some advice from a top-class harmonica player (Joe Powers): a great way to develop into a better all-round harmonica player is to take some piano lessons.
Buddha is right. (Again!:) Don't know about the light rock stuff but when I'm playing fiddle-ly type tunes I find 12th often works really well. I'd pick a song in another key though, unless the guitar uses a capo. Song in F#, 3rd is E, 2nd B, 12th D-flat, 11th A-flat. Not very popular harp keys, but you should have an A-flat.
Well, you could try using the MAJOR pentatonic scale and construct parts to play from that scale. It lays out well in first and second positions and works effectively for a lot of non-blues major key material.
Funny you mentioned Give Me One Reason by TC as I was workin that one out on guitar the other day. In F# the cross harp key would be 'B'. If F is Bb then a semi-tone up is F#-B is how I'd work it out. Great song.
If you decide to do a couple without a singer you can take the melody. That can be fun on a song you'd never consider signing, like a Britney Spears cover, if you can keep from laughing.
Jeeze! I thought learning to play the harmonica was going to be dead easy but you guys put the willies up me. Maybe I should consider something a bit easier - maybe the piano?
/I thought learning to play the harmonica was going to be dead easy but you guys put the willies up me. Maybe I should consider something a bit easier - maybe the piano?/
Well, at least you can *see* what to do with a piano. Ideally... Both!
I've been learning the Jeff Beck/Charles Mingus Goodbye Pork pie hat/Touch with the Blues tune. I've been copying the Jeff Beck guitar licks playing 3rd position harp. It's still bluesy but in a non standard harp lick way. I like it and it's phrasing translates in an interesting manner to harp.
I second HVYJ's recomendation for the MAJOR PENTATONIC scale. Maybe I'm recomending it because it's my new passion. And it works good in 2nd position, as well as 1st and 12th.
It has a different feel than the blues scale. In second position, you can easily glide over 2 octaves plus a few more notes, with ease. I have been using it succesfully with a "jug band" jam that I have attended.
It is not a "one size fits all" answer, but it will open up a LOT of doors.
And for those minor tunes. you really SHOULD learn 3rd position. 4th and 5th are also easy for those minor tunes. Each of the 3 positions has pros and cons. I use 3rd A LOT.
I am not a fan of minor harps, but they will get the job done if you refuse to learn 3rd,4th & 5th.
ALSO, If the guitar player will listen to you. STAY AWAY from F# and those goofy keys. Shift up or down a half step. Very few voices cannot shift 1/2 step. ---------- intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 2:13 PM
Thanks, guys - all very useful advice. I'll stay away from 2nd position definitely, to avoid shoehorning the blues sound into other genres. Will also try to figure out the chord tones and build from that. ... Just found Buddha's videos on 12th position, so it's time to watch them and go back to square one.
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 4:06 PM
"stay away from 2nd position, that's the first step.
Learn 11th, 12th and 3rd or be doomed to playing blues or sounding like a harp player who plays blues licks over pop music."
I think 2nd position can sound good when not playing blues, as long as your not simply recycling your blues licks and sticking to the blues scale. John Popper is quite effective at using 2nd position(to play the major scale) over pop/rock music. But I agree there are times when using a different position, like 12th, is more effective than using 2nd.
i jam with some boys who play some blues but mostly rock. It helps just to dig in and get in where you fit in.... I feel like its been a great help to play other genres of music...2nd position or whatever position, ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
2nd can work.. Just use a 5 overvlow instead of a 5 draw. Pretty simplistic, but it works. At least until you learn 11th and 12th posistions. :). ----------
There are going to be times where the best thing to do is not play anything at all and for some solos, rather than just riffing all over the place mindlessly, there are gonna be tunes where what you want to be doing is essentially playing the vocal melody (which is too often ignored by a lot of harp players, usually the type that want to be the show offs who wanna impress people with licks they think they can play well but can't).
The main advantage of minor harps isn't always for the scales that are on there, but for chording.
Another thing to consider is using harps that are country tuned, where the 5 draw is tuned 1/2 step sharp so that the draw chord is a Major 7th, which works with a much wider variety of material and this I used to advantage behind a vocalist who was doing a medley of DooWop classics "Sincerely" by the Moonglows and "Oh What A Night" by The Dells, and what I was playing behind the vocals was essentially the vocal harmony parts that you'd hear a DooWop group sing behind the lead vocalist.
The one size doesn't fit all advice is on the money and for a lot of non blues stuff, the habits you've gotten into that worked with blues will often sound very out of place like a sore thumb and whenever you play ANY bends or OB's, they have to be EXTREMELY accurate or they'll sound like total garbage because the slightly out notes ain't gonna work at all.
Here's where doing something that FAR too many harp players are often too lazy to take the time to learn, which is learing very basic music theory along where knowing where each and every note that's available on the instrument, knowing where you are 24/7/365 is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT comes in.
This is also where the main focus is NOT soloing, but the vocals.
The stuff that you may get away with in an open jam often times just ain't gonna fly on this gig. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
but the original post was playing along with someone who just started playing guitar and mainly did some strummed chords. there is lots of place for playing in this situation..
i think at the beginning or working out what to play, when there is singing very simple repeated notes or simple chords(on the root is ok even.. there is no bass player), fill's should echo the melody line, and when no singing figure out how to play the melody pretty close, then use that to base an additional improv off of. this approach takes you automatically through the chord changes. even the top jazz improv players often mirror the melody at beginning and end of their solos, for that matter, it is a good approach to blues solos, keeps you from falling into the same old licks and makes you make a solo that fits the song.
I'm a lucky guy. After practicing on my own for about three years now, yesterday I did my first play-along with other musicians. It was an acoustic jam, really a "sandbox" for musicians --- no audience, hosted by my church. This was the ideal way to get my feet wet. No booze, no loud amps or unappreciative audience. Just guys wanting to play some music.
Last night there were five guitar players, a string bass, and best of all, one harp player! The music was a mix of rock and blues, most of which I had never played (a bunch of original tunes too) so I had my work cut out for me. This thread came along at a good time and was very helpful.
I think I did OK too --- I got complements from more than one of the guys there. I basically comped on most of the tunes, doing fills between the vocals with some simple phrases, and sometimes echoing the melody, but tried not to play too much or too loud. I got to do a couple of solo choruses too, which I did try to "own".
I stuck with my comfort zone and played in 2nd position on the major tunes and 3rd on the minor ones. I found that second seemed to work fine; I just saved my blues licks for the blues songs. But will take Buddha's advice and look at 11th and 12th down the road. I surprised myself with my ability to intuitively follow the chord changes of the non-blues. And I did better when I wasn't thinking too much.
This is a regular weekly thing, and they invited me back, so I'm very pumped to keep at it. ----------
"I thought learning to play the harmonica was going to be dead easy but you guys put the willies up me."
I'm gonna suggest an easier path for you to start on - not that any of the suggestions above are wrong , - I'm working on some of them now myself. But as Ryan was starting to say, there is a lot more to to 2nd position harp than recycling blues licks.
For me, getting into country, gospel and folk and even rock (other than 'blues rock') and reggae, while still in 2nd, developed some ability to play melody - and opened up more musical possibilities . Though I worked at it - it came naturally - by ear - without reading charts or knowing the chord changes. Though my playing is not as advanced or innovative as Buddha's and the host of next generation players who now inspire me, I can pick up a harp and contribute to just about any jam (other than Jazz) I happen into.
Try playing along with tunes that don't have harp in them and aren't strictly blues (though they may be blues derived or influenced - as an awful lot of music is) . Some starters might be:
amazing grace Swing Low Sweet Chariot I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry - Hank Williams I Know You Rider - yes it started life as blues / traditional - but it has some melody to it. Try playing along to the Dead's version on Europe 72 (or any other version) Stir it Up and No Woman No Cry --Bob Marley
Try to incorporate / explore the upper registers of the harp. Remember blow notes are not just passing notes to get to the 'fun' bluesy draw bends.
Start where you are (ya got no choice anyway) and follow where your heart, ear and interests lead you. Chris, Jason, Howard et. al, are doing amazing things with the instrument. When you are inspired to - follow their lead and venture out beyond cross harp, into music theory etc. But you have to start from where you are.
The harp IS easy and fun. Enjoy it for goodness sakes. As these new masters are showing us - it's also got amazing potential as a "sereious instrument" - and you can take it as far as you want to go with it.
Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2010 1:02 PM
