tookatooka
1489 posts
Jul 01, 2010
4:05 AM
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Found a nice little rumba that I'm working on. It uses the upper octave a lot but there are sharps in it. What does one do in this situation? It's a nice tune and I don't want to get too far from the original and there are no notes I can bend on the harp that will be suitable.
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2010 4:05 AM
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5F6H
222 posts
Jul 01, 2010
4:39 AM
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Find a harp of a key that has as many of the unbent notes that you can get away with (obviously might mean playing in an unfamiliar position, but if you know the tune it won't matter), or play the upper octave stuff in a lower octave if the notes fall easier there.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
469 posts
Jul 01, 2010
4:43 AM
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How many sharps in the key signature? What you would do here is transcribe the music into the key of C, or G.
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www.harrisonharmonicas.com
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tookatooka
1490 posts
Jul 01, 2010
4:59 AM
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Thanks guys but I think I'm a bit out of my depth here. I'm not experienced enough to quite understand what you mean. The backing track I've created is in C I'll be playing C harp in first position. Don't worry, I'll see how far I can get then maybe bail out if it gets too complicated.
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5F6H
224 posts
Jul 01, 2010
6:17 AM
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Tooka - What are the sharp notes in question?
Forget "position" as such, use the key of harp that has the notes you need. If you need F# for instance, a G harp will give you that, if you need A#/Bb then try a F harp, if you need A#/Bb & D#/Eb then try a Bb harp...& so on...
There's no point in trying to play it in C in 1st position on diatonic if the notes you need don't fall on the harp & you can't get them by bending/overblowing. You could always use a Koch/Chrom/Slide Harp?
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mr_so&so
334 posts
Jul 01, 2010
9:11 AM
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Tookatooka, here's what I do. It does involve positions, and can give you a clue as to what position(s) might work best for the song. Then choose a harp key that works too, e.g. for singing along or for other accompanying musicians.
I've noticed that most harp tabs that are posted on the Internet do not tell you what position they are in, only the key of harp used. This is not enough information to be able to play the song in a particular key, e.g. to accompany others. You need to know how positions work, and all you need for that is the circle of fifths and some harp tab positions charts, like these ones that I've shared here before.
If you can work out a tune "by ear", jot down the harp tab for what you are playing, and find the root note of the song, which is likely the last note. That note tells you what position you are playing in. E.g., I was just playing around with an Irish/Scottish tune called "Wild Mountain Thyme". I could play it most easily when the 5 draw was my root note. From harp tab position charts you will see that this is 12th position.
The circle of fifths tells you what song key you are playing in for a given harp key and position. I have "Wild Mountain Thyme" from a book in the key of D. So to play it in D, in 12th position, you choose an A harp.
To determine what other positions might be good for a song, write down the notes of the song in "degree" terms, rather than harp tab. By degree terms, I mean scale degrees from the chromatic scale (which I write using flats for the notes between those of the major scale):
1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7
E.g. As worked out by ear in 12th position, "Wild Mountain Thyme" uses only the scale degrees 1,2,3,5, and 6. Now I can look at my position charts for chromatic scale harp tab to determine other positions to try the tune in, i.e. ones that are easiest to play it in, or have the best chords accessible, etc. For ease of play, it looks like 12th and 1st are best, then maybe 2nd and 4th.
I hope this helps.
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gene
516 posts
Jul 01, 2010
1:30 PM
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How 'bout a chromatic harmonica?
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tookatooka
1492 posts
Jul 01, 2010
1:45 PM
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@5F6H @mr_so&so. Thanks for your help but I'm getting more confused now.
The tune calls for D#, G# and A# in only a small section of the tune but all at the top octave end. I understand to use a harp with those notes but doesn't that mean a lot of the other notes will then be either # or flat when I don't want them to be, lower down the harp.
I think I'll just do what I was doing and see how it turns out. I don't have any (much) music theory and I don't really want to get too deep into that just for the sake of one tune.
Thanks.
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2010 2:38 PM
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nacoran
2313 posts
Jul 01, 2010
2:19 PM
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Tooka, if it's only doing it for a small section, what other notes is it using in that section? Maybe it's a key change and it would be easiest to play that section on a different harp.
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Nate
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
470 posts
Jul 01, 2010
3:05 PM
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Tooka, Tell me this, what is the very last note in that "small section of the tune." Then, tell me what is the very last note in the song.
I think that phrase with the sharps and flats is a modulation to the key of E. Maybe try switching to an E harmonica for that part?
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www.harrisonharmonicas.com
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tookatooka
1493 posts
Jul 01, 2010
3:40 PM
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Wow! You've got some tenacity there ERH. I'm very grateful for your help. The best I can do is attach an MP3 file that I've been working on; Fruity Loops MP3 file. The very last note in the tune is a C, The section of the tune where the sharps come in is about 1 minute in.
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LeeEdwards
63 posts
Jul 02, 2010
4:09 AM
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Tooka around the one minute mark the tune moves from C Major into C minor so there are a few options you could try out.
Either 1) play the beginning on a C harp in 1st then either a) switch to an F and play 2nd position minor b) switch to a Bb and play in 3rd position minor c) switch to an Eb and play in 4th minor or d) switch to an Ab and play in 5th minor.
If you haven't quite got your bends or OBs down you could switch to a natural minor tuned F and play 2nd.
This is, by no means, a conclusive list of every option available. The most important thing to remember is that your tonal centre remains the same, but you are moving from major to minor.
Keep us posted on how you decided to solve this challenge.
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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tookatooka
1495 posts
Jul 02, 2010
5:09 AM
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Thanks for the input fellas but unfortunately this is all getting a bit too complicated for my liking. I don't have any music theory knowledge and I'm relatively new to the harp (3 years). I'm just going to do that last bit as easily as I can and see how it turns out / maybe abandon the idea. Thanks though - much appreciated.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
471 posts
Jul 02, 2010
5:15 AM
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Speaking keywise, that song is definitely bi-curious. I'll take the chord harmonica later today and see if I can figure out what it's doing. for sure. Just listening to it blindly, I think it went up to C# minor or something, but Lee might well be right on the C minor thing.
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www.harrisonharmonicas.com
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LeeEdwards
64 posts
Jul 02, 2010
6:16 AM
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Tooka - C minor = C D Eb F G Ab Bb
Eb harp (4th Position) = 6d, 7d, 7b, 8d, 8b, 9d, 9b
No bends there so very easy although it would sound piercingly high in pitch. Maybe a low Eb for the upper octave.
To play an octave lower on the Eb harp = 3d'', 3d, 4b, 4d, 5b, 5d, 6b, 6d
Only one bend required, but it happens to be your root so could be a bit unstable.
F harp (2nd Pos.) = 2d, 3d'', 3d', 4b, 4d, 4OB, 5d. or
6b, 6d, 6OB, 7b, 8d, 8b', 9d
Other than using a minor tuned harp I can't really think of any easy ways out using a diatonic. Using a Bb harp in 3rd or Ab in 5th could be too low in pitch for what you require.
You're either going to need a) good control of bends and/or OBs b) an Eb harp (which could be too high) or c) A Natural Minor F harp (I mean an F harp that's tuned so that you play natural minor when in 2nd)
Don't abandon the idea completely though just because it presents a challenge as there was something about it that intrigued you in the first place. Use it as an opportunity to improve. There is a way and you can find it.
Good luck.
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2010 7:36 AM
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