Personally I like the music to do the talking and generally tell people, who are about to hear me, or in the near future, that I "play a bit"
Its ingrained into society in the West coast of Scotland, that you never big yourself,or your family up.
The biggest accolade you'll get here at a gig is that
"You were alright"
This actually means you were excellent!!
Its a cultural thing.
Surely Buddah, if they believe you are full of shit anyway, best to ignore them and just to let the music talk ? ---------- Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace Youtube
Due to cutbacks,the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 10:49 AM
I always say that I'm an average harmonica player and that there are better players in the country than me (which is the truth). Then I let them hear me play and let them decide if I'm good.
I've been asked that. Like Joe says, I'd rather let someone else decide. I've usually just said 'I can play' or 'I can hold my own' instead of saying how good I am or not. I think if you're asked that question point blank by a fellow musician, it's not hurtful to say, 'yeah, I've been told I'm pretty good' or, 'I can hang', as that's a sign of confidence, versus 'I suck'(even if sarcastically meant)-they might be afraid to play with an amateur if that's how you describe yourself, at this point an unknown to them. ---------- Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Saying "I suck" is just crazy. I'm neither a fan of phony self-deprecation nor over-the-top self-praise. Todd, the standard "I can play" works for me, too (or would work, if I ever had to answer such a question).
Beyond that, it's all subjective anyway. I think Buddha's a fabulous player, but his stuff might not be someone else's cup of tea. So what? This quiz does not have an answer key.
I'm with Joe L.-it's for others to decide. The internet has exposed me to scads of great players. If you forced me to answer,I'd say I'm mid-pack. Better than some,worse than others.
It's a stock answer I use frequently. You could alway respond to the question,"are you good" by asking, "compared to what?" ---------- intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 11:06 AM
I was once leading a jam and a sax player came up to me and asked if he could sit in with my band without me and no other jammers. I asked if he was any good and he looked me straight in the eye and said, "I can play anything you can play and better." I said "Oh yeah? If you can't you owe the band a round of drinks and you have to leave." He agreed and asked what I had for him.... I blew a chord.
Stupid fucker.
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"Musicians are the architects of heaven"
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 11:16 AM
I'm with Kingley and others. I just try to put on an entertaining performance. If audience members pay me a compliment I say "Thank you very much". If a pro compliments me I say "Thank you very much. That means a lot coming from someone like you. "
Chris - you are a great player. There is no question about it. But a little humility goes a long way. Frankly, I think your posting this yourself, and the tone of your post, is a bit arrogant. The best musicians I've met are, as a rule, exceedingly humble. The ones who aren't - well, they may be great musicians but I think less of them as people. ---------- /Greg
If I found people thought I was full of sh*t, and it was in a situation that mattered, I'd take a look at my presentation.
Most people are put off by boastful, arrogant, self-centered folks. When I think of the people I personally believe are full of it, they usually have one or more of those characteristics.
Being good has it's own weight and inertia. Saying you're good doesn't.
the truth is, I am confident not arrogant. Anything else would be a lie. I'm just living the way I do.
I get the whole humility thing and I am much more humble than any of you would give me credit but I simply don't buy into to the whole deal that says you have to be humble to be great.
Arrogant people don't learn, they don't teach and they don't help. They only care about themselves.
Run a music festival for a few years, and you'll see how humble these greats really are. I know there are exceptions but in my experience it's not the norm.
This thread was actually spurned from the what is a pro thread and what 7limit said about playing "a little bit"
When you have a product to sell then you have to be accurate in it's description and you have to TELL people what it is. That's advertising 101.
Nobody was asking for electricity before it was invented. It was was delivered and people where told they have to have it. And so we do.
"If I found people thought I was full of sh*t, and it was in a situation that mattered, I'd take a look at my presentation. "
I tell people that I sound and play the harmonica more like a sax or flute. If you close your eyes you'd have a hard time believing it was a harmonica.
That's the truth. How is that arrogant?
I can't tell you how many times people have approached me and asked what that little stick thing is that I am playing.
I think you can be descriptive to someone who may not know of your work without being a braggart. Like Buddha says, if someone has never heard him, they won't know what to expect. Can't fault anyone for selling themselves. If he were to tell them he played just like Bob Dylan, they might not stick around to actually hear him. ---------- Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
This guy is arrogant and he's known for being notoriously arrogant. He used to live in Tucson and I got invited to a pro jam and knew he was going to show up. A complete dick.
You can hear the arrogance in his playing too. Does his solo go anywhere or is it just a collection of other techniques designed to show other bassist that he can play their shit and every other technique with little effort?
Here's are two clips of my playing, one with two other harmonica players and one me playing in an ensemble with other good players. Did I at any point show the full range of my chops? Did I play within the music and support the music or do things to support myself?
Of course I'm biased but I do not hear even a touch of arrogance in the playing exhibited in these clips. I think my playing shows respect for the music, the audience, the group and the harmonica.
Arrogance typically has truth at its core. But that doesn't make it a good thing.
It's this need to TELL people how good you are that puts them off. I think it would be soooo much more satisfying to just DO it, wow people and have them come to you. Then graciously accept their compliments .
Every one of those compliments would be worth many times the value of one received with an 'I told you so' attached to it.
Yah, there's a bass solo guy at every jam. Really enjoyed the second vid Chris, nice light playing under the vocal. (But how can you play and keep a straight face when someone has silver dual guitar sunglasses(?) sticking out of the top of their head? :)
I don't know if I would consider Brian Bromberg a complete dick-check out his bio-
Brian was born December 5th, 1960 in Tucson Arizona. He grew up in a family of musicians and artists. His father and brother played the drums. With all that music around the house, and drums all over the place, it was natural for Brian to start playing the drums as well. Brian was two and a half years old, beating up the furniture and banging on anything that didn't move. After some years of playing and practicing, Brian began his professional career as a drummer at the age of thirteen.
In elementary and Jr.high School, Brian also played the cello. That was one instrument that Brian did not feel very comfortable playing. One day in orchestra class at jr. high, the orchestra director came over to Brian and said, hey Brian, you see that big bass over there in the corner? You know that nobody is playing it. Don't you want to play that big cool bass over there? You see, the orchestra director had a plan. He thought that having one bad bass player was better then not having one at all. That was his way of getting Brian to stop trying to saw his cello in half!
That day was a blessing in disguise. Brian didn't realize that he had the gift for melody as well as rhythm. With his drumming background, and all this new melody available to him from the bass, Brian knew that this was going to be his path.
From ages fourteen to eighteen, Brian locked himself up in a room and practiced day and night. Testing out of high school early and devoting all his time to music, for the next few years Brian played every type of gig imaginable. Quite often Brian would play five to seven nights a week with several different bands.
Brian's first big break came in 1979 when Marc Johnson, the wonderful bassist with the great jazz pianist Bill Evans, heard Brian play. Several months later while on tour, Marc ran into legendary jazz saxophonist Stan Getz. Stan was looking for a new bass player and asked Marc if he knew any new young players. Marc told Stan about Brian. Brian auditioned for Stan and joined the Stan Getz quintet in December of 1979. Brian had just turned 19 and spent nearly a year touring the world with Stan and his band.
Since then, Brian has toured, performed and or recorded with some of the greatest artists of our time. Here is a partial list:
Anita O' Day Arturo Sandoval Barney Kessel Benny Golson Bill Evans Billy Cobham Bob James Bob Mintzer Bobby Lyle Boney James Carmen McRae Chris Botti Clark Terry Dave Grusin Dave Koz David Benoit David Foster Diane Schur Dianna Krall Dizzy Gillespie Doc Powell Dudley Moore Eddie Harris Elvin Jones Elvis Costello Ernie Watts Freddie Hubbard George Duke Gerry Mulligan Gonzalo Rubalcaba Hank Jones Herb Ellis Herbie Hancock Herbie Mann Horace Silver Ivan Lins James Moody Jeff Lorber Joe Farrell Joe Lovano Joe Sample Johnathan Butler Johnny Mandel Josh Grobin Joshua Redman Keiko Matsui Kenny Baron Kenny G Kenny Garrett Kenny Rankin Kirk Whalum Lalo Schiffren Larry Carlton Lee Konitz Lee Ritenour Lenny White Les McCann Lionel Hampton Lou Rawls Michael Brecker Michael Buble Michael Crawford Michel Legrand Monte Alexander Nancy Wilson Patrice Rushen
Paula Cole Peter White Randy Brecker Rene Olstead Richard Elliot Richie Cole Rick Braun Robben Ford Roy Hargrove Russ Freeman Sadao Watanabe Sarah Vaughn Shirley Horn Sonny Stitt Stan Getz Stanley Jordan Stanley Turrentine Steve Lukather Tom Scott Tony Williams Toots Thielemans Vinnie Colaiuta Woody Shaw Brian has also played on many movie soundtracks, including:
"The Fabulous Baker Boys" "Housesitter" "Hope Floats" "The Preachers Wife" "Havana" "Guilty by Suspicion" "The Exterminator" "Absolute Beginners" "The Recruit" "Fat Albert" and many more.
Brian's solo career began with the release of his first album "A New Day" in 1986. Right from the beginning with this first release, critics started noticing that Brian was different, doing things with the bass that hadn't really been done before. Bromberg's reputation was starting to spread throughout the world. Smooth jazz radio took notice as well, breaking Brian into the format and charting with his first record.
His next release "Basses Loaded", started to propel his visibility more. Even the title track became a cult classic amongst many bass players. Again, radio embraced his music and Brian was beginning to be recognized as a composer as well as a bassist.
Brian's very much anticipated third release, "Magic Rain" was the #1 most added record to radio in the country the first week of release.
Many people feel that this recording is when Brian started really coming into his own as an artist.
Bromberg's fourth release "BASSically Speaking", actually a reissue of Brian's first recording with some new tracks and additions, went top 5 on the radio charts and #7 on the Billboard sale's charts.
Brian chose to go back to his mainstream jazz roots for his fifth release," It's About Time, The Acoustic Project". This is a straight ahead jazz record that feature's jazz greats "Freddie Hubbard" and "Ernie Watts". This is an all-acoustic jazz record that went to #4 on the mainstream jazz charts.
Brian went back to his electric, more contemporary sound for his next record, "BRIAN BROMBERG". This is a very special recording. The cd features an all-star line up of musicians. Unfortunately, the record company went out of business a week after the record shipped! It is not available in stores or on line, but is available here on Brian's web site.
At this point Brian took a break from making records and concentrated on designing basses for Peavey Electronics, doing clinics, studio work and touring.
In 1996, Brian signed with Zebra records. He recorded what was to become his most successful record to date. In February 1998, Brian released "You Know That Feeling" An exceptional CD featuring smooth jazz greats, Rick Braun, Joe Sample, Jeff Lorber, and Everette Harp among others. By June of '98 Brian had his first #1 record of his career. "You know that feeling" had three singles in a row that each went to #3 on the charts. Spent 17 consecutive months on the charts, 8 months in the top 10, nearly 6 months in the top 5. Brian's CD was the 5th most played CD from the top 100 CD's of the year in smooth jazz. To this day, "you know that feeling" still remains in regular rotation on smooth jazz stations across the country.
Since the success of "You Know That Feeling", Brian has been developing quite a reputation as a producer, arranger and composer. As of the time of writing this bio, Brian's latest production is former Rippingtons saxophonist Jeff Kashiwa's CD "Another Door Opens." Jeff's first single "Hyde Park", co-written and produced by Brian, has been at #1 on the charts for 8 weeks, 1 week from tying the record for the longest #1 in the format's history. Brian's last hit single was the track "Relentless". It features Richard Elliot on sax and you can hear it on Brian's "Choices" CD. If you've been listening to the smooth jazz stations it's likely that you've heard Richard Smith's chart topper "Sing a Song" which was recorded right here at B² Studios. All in all, Brian has produced 8 top 10 hits, 7 top 5 hits and 2 #1 hits to date. Brian certainly has evolved into a major voice in music. From smashing through the barriers of how the bass is SUPPOSED to be played, to being recognized as a world-class producer and songwriter. As Brian himself says, "There are no rules, just dreams".
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Oh, okay. (That explains all the cob-web stuff in the background. I was thinking it was some Arizona renovation/art deco/desert sort of thing.) Gee, which half was Asian? Good job, you can't see any seams or nothin'! (But don't you just hate how the face paint gunks up your cover plates? :)
I know but the two can't be separated like you're doing. The music is a window into how a person really is.
I'm not arrogant. You called me that and you're incorrect.
If you told me, that you make great mics, the best a harp player could have, I wouldn't think twice about you being arrogant or anything else.
Things are what they are, that's all I'm saying. And to proclaim something about your own abilities is no different than telling me what you're wearing.
I don't understand why people allow themselves to be defined by others. Just because somebody tells you something, it doesn't mean it's true. I created who I am, I do the work and therefore, I define me.
I don't take compliments well, I never have, I don't know why but I think most of them are fake or manipulative. I hate hearing "you're a good player" etc.. I would rather hear "You made me feel good" or my favorite to date, "You made me feel like time didn't exist" I like it because I feel like I've given something to someone and that's my goal.
Tell me how good I am and I'm likely to consider you condescending and arrogant. I know it's weird but it's what I think and the reason I generally stay away from people.
Somebody calls this guy the best harmonica player in the world. Is he?
i own a pizza shop, and in what i do as a manager, and as a line cook, im confident that i am the best at what i do.. some may call it arrogant, but i dont feel that way. im rather humble about it, till someone challanges my ability.. then i prove myself and move on.. i think i would be arrogant if i refused to be open and learn new ways.. or continually put down others for their lack of ability..
i dont think it is arrogant to believe in your ability..
now, to answer the question "are you any good"... not yet...
Gwood420: It's not arrogant to believe in your ability. It's arrogant to carry yourself in such a manner that you project superiority.
Buddha says, "Things are what they are, that's all I'm saying. And to proclaim something about your own abilities is no different than telling me what you're wearing."
Well, yes it is different. That's why you used the word 'proclaim' -- to elevate it above a simple statement of fact. I'm not sure you believe that one yourself.
"I don't understand why people allow themselves to be defined by others. Just because somebody tells you something, it doesn't mean it's true. I created who I am, I do the work and therefore, I define me."
I liked the first part of that. But then you turn it into more about yourself. I don't go around picking on folks, but you come on here and make bold statements, basically daring people to come argue (you'll deny that) so here I am.
"I don't take compliments well, I never have, I don't know why but I think most of them are fake or manipulative. I hate hearing "you're a good player" etc.. I would rather hear "You made me feel good" or my favorite to date, "You made me feel like time didn't exist" I like it because I feel like I've given something to someone and that's my goal."
It just feels like a twisted approach to things. A compliment is, typically, an innocent thing. A person stepping up, often out of their personal comfort zone, saying 'I like that. Thanks for that. It was good.' But since they didn't say it right, they're manipulative? Why are people's compliments all measured by the 'time stood still' standard? You force yourself into this corner with this frame of mind, and you're the one that loses.
"Tell me how good I am and I'm likely to consider you condescending and arrogant. I know it's weird but it's what I think and the reason I generally stay away from people."
You're missing out on some of the best life has to offer, Chris.
Again, you're trying to define yourself as something special, different. Driving home that you play by a different set of rules, and just daring people to question you on it. It's just wasted energy, and it ain't all about Chris anyway.
"It's not arrogant to believe in your ability. It's arrogant to carry yourself in such a manner that you project superiority."
i can agree with that..
in the OP, chris was just asking how we would answer that question if it was laid on us.. and kindly gave his answer to said question.. i fail to see arrogance in it.. he was later challanged about being arrogant which spurred his other comments.. i have senced a bit of arrogance in some of chris' other comments on this forum, but i think he has earned the right to be that way once in awhile.. i dont feel that a person of shear arrogance would stick around to help out those of us with lesser abilities.. it wouldnt be worth his precious time, would it?
just a thought.. :) by no means trying to argue with anyone..
your off in your assessment. I don't have time to respond right now. Maybe tomorrow afternoon when I'm back in front of my computer.Typing from the phone is a waste of my precious time.
Since you asked about being good: I don't know the bloke, but is it good to post a video with seemingly little purpose other than to demonstrate the shortcomings of someone's musicianship and character?
Secondly...
/Are you any good. How do you respond to that question?/
It depends on who's asking.
If there might be work in it, I'll say something along the lines of "well.." and then might list the more impressive places I've been lucky enough to have played.
If there are no alterior motives and I'm being honest, the answer would be something like "not as good as I'd be if I practised more."
@nacoran:
/I'm good enough so that sometimes I record stuff and I don't hate it./
you mean Brian Bromberg? He's a fantastic musician, I was just showing how arrogance shines through in the music, you can't hide who and what you are when you're playing music as the music reveals all that is you.
"Since you asked about being good: I don't know the bloke, but is it good to post a video with seemingly little purpose other than to demonstrate the shortcomings of someone's musicianship and character?"
i have seen adam post a video of a guy to show his shortcommings on a harmonica before.. i would find the thread if i could remember the guys name. but i do remember the guy registered and joined the discussion...
I read on another thread that after 10,000 hours of practice one might be a great player. I figure for the last 3.5 years of sometimes practicing 30 to 45 min per day that I still have at least 9000 hours of work ahead of me.
Its never a good idea to ever measure youself against others. I guess if you are a pro then your CV will tell it all and if you are really good then your bank balance might reveal more.
Personally I think that there is more to being good than just being a good player ie it's not just the music thats doing the talking. Sure you have to be accomplished on the harp but you have to relate, be entertaining and play what the audience want to hear.
I would like an audience to leave with the feeling 'I liked his playing , he played my kind of music and he was a great guy'; in preference to 'He was a brilliant harp player, didn't really like his choice of music and he came across as an asshole'! .
I'd say I'm bad unless I'm compared to someone playing as long as me. But I do think the average person (who isn't a high achieving musician) who hears me play is surprised to say I'm good :) .
---------- ~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
/i have seen adam post a video of a guy to show his shortcommings on a harmonica before.. i would find the thread if i could remember the guys name. but i do remember the guy registered and joined the discussion.../
Prefaced with something like
/This guy is arrogant [...] A complete dick/
as well?
Seems to me that whilst it may well be instructive to use material that's in the public domain for illustrative purposes, I wonder whether making unpleasant comments about someone's character in a public forum is a good thing to be doing?
the difference captainbliss is I didn't pull a youtube vid and judge him on that. I've met him and played with him before. I also have several friend who have said the same thing.
He's a world renowned musician but people simply do not like his personality. I know of one such harmonica player that has had incredible opportunitirs handed to him on a silver platter and yet his personality is what destroyed those gigs in a very short time.
? Chris you posted a thread i think the Header was Im Going to be a Blues man, you got compliments from myself and MBH members where we being condescending or suportive:)
Bro no worry's about me comeing up and saying you play good, can't stand JAZZ:)Ha Ha lighten up Bro's:)
get back to you later:)
re edit IFU mate it wasn't you who posted the thread i wasking about,,it was the clips Zhin posted in his thread;0
anyways don't bother answering this,Bro you are copping a Floging:)
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 10:59 PM
/I've met him and played with him before. I also have several friend who have said the same thing.
He's a world renowned musician but people simply do not like his personality./
I have no reason to doubt where your opinions come from and no reason / no wish to challenge your personal judgements.
What I do question is whether this forum is the place for comments like "x is arrogant" or "x is a dick" (however stongly felt or widely held such beliefs may be).
EDIT: forgot something I wanted to say! Which is that I strongly agree with you that arrogance in musicians is deplorable and destructive of music-making.
When I look at the bass player video, not having known him...just a first impression...would be that he is just up there wanking off. But his solo is just him playing, he's not supporting anyone or having to blend with the tune. Chris's playing is supportive and then his solo fits the song. The bass player is just having his "Inagaddavidda drum solo" moment and I didn't mind it...listened to the whole thing.
the WHAT IS A PRO thread is relevant here. the reason OP is not regarded along the pros like LEVY or WILSON is because of the way the carry themself. they dont have shameless self advertising for there products and in this case themself. they just let the music talk and everyone will regard them for what they are
buddha you are a good musician anyone here who will deny it plz step up. but with that said why do u feel it is necessary for you to constantly be talking about yourself? are you insecure?
capt, adam(if i remember correctly) didnt know the guy he was talking about.. personally, i didnt see a problem with either thread. chris stated that he knew the guy and didnt like him.. he didnt hide that fact.. would i have posted a thread like that? no, that isnt my style.. but i dont begrudge someone.. i just dont read them..
dont get me wrong, im not comming to chris' aid here, but read this thread.. it was a simple question.. he just wanted to know how we would answer that type of question if asked... i think you all looked way too far into it. i mean spouting off about arrogance and insecurity.. the man just wanted to know what you would say.. maybe im wrong, i will reread the thread again...
I truely believe what other people think about me is none of my business.
I have fun when I play and get invited to play often. I have been payed to play on more than one occasion and have never been asked -are you any good? I don't desire to be in the "inner circle" I just want to have fun and play music.
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"I have a high tolerance for boredom as long as it has a groove" - Scrapboss
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 8:57 PM
I like the bass solo. There is nothing wrong with showing off sometimes. If you pay other musicians to back you that's a different thing than if a group of you get together and form a band, and even then, as long as everyone gets a chance sometime and it entertains the audience it's all good.
Goodwood, I remember the video you are talking about, but I don't remember the guys name. Adam was very diplomatic and even handed with his cometary and everything he said could be backed up by the video. It was also very instructional.
Chris, I know you tangentially connect his playing with his attitude, but I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. I'd just say the other players are using the space in between their notes really well. :)
