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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Why don't more pro players post on the internet?
Why don't more pro players post on the internet?
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MrVerylongusername
1073 posts
Jun 15, 2010
3:18 PM
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@Isaac
The explosion of hostile posts just seemed like a good excuse to walk away and get on with other things for a while - like learning to play my chromatic, being a dad and concentrating on my job. I got annoyed that certain posters seemed to be arguing for arguments sake - to the point where they would not bother to read whole threads, take people task over a single badly chosen word and resort to playground pointscoring and namecalling. Apparently it's fine to type "You're a xxxx" as long as you put a little smiley afterwards.
I do wonder about people like Mickil, Zhin and Dutchbones. My guess is that like me, they never really went off the radar completely. I bet they check the forum out in lurk mode. I hope they do decide to post regularly again.
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kudzurunner
1584 posts
Jun 15, 2010
3:27 PM
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@7LimitJI: If you can honestly read the several long posts that I've recently contributed to this particular thread and have only the response that you've had in your last post above, which is that I'm fueling "most of the darkness on this forum," then, with all due respect, I think you're wasting your time here. There's nothing dogmatic about my inquiry, nor is it a diatribe. It's an invitation to conversation. It is true that my second or third post on page 1 was dogmatic. Several people challenged me on that. I decided to moderate my tone, and I've markedly done so. I've also tried to look more deeply at several important issues that I hadn't quite thought through.
What may seem like off-topic posts to you were in fact prompted by Captain Bliss wondering aloud whether my principal reason for posting here weren't profit-driven. Surely my long posts in this thread have made abundantly clear that profit is not what drives me! A genuine interest in open inquiry is what drives me.
Nor, frankly, am I driven by any sort of racial guilt trip or felt need to atone for history. I'm hardly an academic leftist. I sometimes raise uncomfortable questions, true. But I'll reiterate my overriding concern: I'm trying to create a little more freedom for everybody by shedding a little more light on where the blues come from and why people play them. The world is indeed changing, and the legislated racial stratification (slavery and then segregation) that marked American history from the 1690s through the early 1970s, when Mississippi's schools were finally desegregated, has clearly moderated. But it hasn't gone away. And blues music, my experience teaches me, is one place where blacks and whites come together, and HAVE come together, to carry on a conversation and to collaborate fruitfully even when the rest of their lives may make such conversation and collaboration difficult or impossible. By the same token, contemporary blues scenes sometimes have racially inimical effects. Just read LIVING BLUES magazine and you'll hear African American artists vent about how "the white boys are getting the gigs while the REAL blues artists are being ignored." Chick Willis claimed exactly that in a recent interview. The contemporary blues scene is a complex place, and older musicians who grew up under segregation may not share your sunny view of the world. This doesn't mean, however, that I necessarily think Chick Willis is right. Maybe he needs a better agent. But I acknowledge his voice, and the experience that underlies his perspective. And I recognize that race plays a role in the contemporary blues scene--or rather, many different roles.
I'm intrigued, for example, that Stevie Ray Vaughan became a huge American star at precisely the same moment that Ronald Reagan was campaigning against "welfare queens." Bush campaign manager Lee Atwater, who dreamed up and executed the famous Willie Horton campaign--featuring a murderous black male criminal whom Michael Dukakis had freed on a furlough program--was a blues guitarist in his spare time and played a number of gigs with B. B. King. Somebody who is really interested in blues, as I'm sure you would claim to be, ought to be interested in these sorts of juxtapositions. Understanding a little bit about the way race works in America, and in the UK (part of Paul Gilroy's "black Atlantic") can deepen your appreciation for the paradoxes that are at the heart of the blues. I like paradoxes. Cross harp is a paradox. M. Hohner didn't design his Marine Band harmonica to play quarter tones on the low strong draw notes. But somebody figured out how to do that. Good thing. :)
Last Edited by on Jun 15, 2010 4:19 PM
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scojo
34 posts
Jun 15, 2010
4:19 PM
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Adam, I saw Lee Atwater play with B.B. in Indianola in 1989. Despite my inebriated state, I was interviewed by one of the local TV reporters and called out the irony (which you referenced) of the leading race-baiter in American politics fancying himself a blues guitar-slinger.
Also, all politics aside, I would not have hired him for one of my gigs.
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captainbliss
160 posts
Jun 15, 2010
4:36 PM
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@kudzurunner:
It's really not that important, it may well be a little off-topic and so I hesitate to say this...
But...
I'd like to think that
/wondering aloud whether my principal reason for posting here weren't profit-driven/
isn't the same as
/hoping that your online presence isn't just altruistic generosity/
Apologies to all if the above comes across as pedantic and trivial, but...
I firmly believe that mutuality of benefit is, in all but extreme cases, a better state of affairs than altruism.
*note to self: be more clear*
xxx
EDITED for clarity
Last Edited by on Jun 15, 2010 5:57 PM
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earlounge
98 posts
Jun 15, 2010
10:06 PM
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I appreciate the history and I respect paying homage to those who came before, but the need to continue to put labels as black and white feels like an itchy shirt to me. I thank those who helped bridge the racial divide, but we are in a time where we are past such things. The fight has been fought and us younger guys reap the benefits of not seeing race and just seeing human beings. It is unnecessary to continue to judge anyone on anything other than musicianship and style. I hope an audience would base their opinion of my performance on my groove and not consider if I'm Caucasian.
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Ev630
626 posts
Jun 15, 2010
10:36 PM
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"Apparently it's fine to type "You're a xxxx" as long as you put a little smiley afterwards."
You criticise people for apparently not reading the threads they comment in then you post a quote that indicates you yourself did not read the thread that provoked that comment.
And so it goes.
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MrVerylongusername
1075 posts
Jun 16, 2010
1:37 AM
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There was no thread, it wasn't a direct quote, it was a generalisation. I could find examples in multiple posts in multiple threads.
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Nastyolddog
935 posts
Jun 16, 2010
3:13 PM
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Nacoran Bro i can't get past this:(
At one point some of you seemed interested in women participating in the forum.
ANSWER 1
Me mate it was me you know it,
The Forum is a hostile enviroment for women,,i have the upmost respect for women and i suggested a MBH Forum ladys room,,where they could powder there nose not being afraid to ask what they may consider a stupid question,
i had the fortune to watch MBH forum kill any chance of haveing a voice for ladys to look up to as a Pro female player,,
that was about 2 years back but Mucho Bullshit Killed any chance of that you guys got threatend by her talent attacking relentlessly untill she left the forum for good:(
Ya want the Truth Bro's i contacted her via her YT page and told her she wouldn't last long in MBH,, because she was a great player,,she would be seen as a threat to male ego's who think the Harmonica is a male dominated Instrument:(
so you will have to forgive me for haveing respect for women and wanting to get young girls, ladys,
introduced to the Harmonica in a safe inviroment,
But maybe you were just looking for someone to date or lust after
ANSWER 2 No Mate!!!
Tell you what i do have,, the strictest man values on earth Bro i showed you some respect lately i get this,
Good onya Mate!!! i love you to!!!!
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nacoran
2140 posts
Jun 16, 2010
4:37 PM
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Nasty, I was responding directly to Tin Lizzie. Actually, I was quoting her. I had the quotation marks; I just forgot to add her name afterwards. (I went back and fixed it.) I don't think, from a strictly software point of view this forum can divide itself into different rooms. I do, now that you mention it remember a post suggesting the room for women, but I didn't remember who it was and wasn't even thinking about it until you brought it up.
Anyway, most people who leave the forum seem to just stop posting. I've seen, some people announce that they are leaving. Sometimes things go on in your life that make you reevaluate what you want to be doing. There were some personal arguments between members going on that drove a few people off. That was back when I'd first joined the forum. When someone left and complained about unevenly applied moderation that bothered me, because they never said anything until their final post, and then, well, they were gone.
It bothers me that this forum isn't more diverse, that people find it a hostile environment. That's the reason I asked what people want this forum to be, because I think most people here want it to be a place where people of different genders, races, religions, orientations, nationalities and all that can talk about harmonica.
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Nate
Facebook
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waltertore
670 posts
Jun 16, 2010
4:51 PM
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nacoran: I appreciate you putting in so much effort to make this place a civilized one. Personally, I have been around different lifestyles and cultures for my entire life. To put down women and gays is not tolerated by me. If I see any posters doing such, I will never engage with them on any subject. IMO such behaviors should result in immediate banishment for life. I couldn't be a moderator here because I would bounce a good many people their rude remarks/disrespect towards others as well as the above mentioned 2 items (the gay one I haven't run across yet since joining). Disagreement is part of life but when it gets into digressing to such primative levels, I am not intersted in being around such energy. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jun 16, 2010 4:52 PM
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Tuckster
596 posts
Jun 16, 2010
5:03 PM
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@Nasty- I don't know if you were quoting or those were your words,but Christelle left of her own volition. There is one certain that gave her a hard time,but it's because she took everything said about her VERY personal.I don't think anybody here did anything but praise her playing(except that one guy). This is certainly a male dominated sport. When you get a bunch of guys together there's gonna be some testosterone in the air. But if a few ladies were to enter the room,the testosterone levels subside-or move to a different place. Although I am respectful of woman and I welcome all women to participate here,I think in this male dominated sport,you better have a thick skin. That doesn't mean you should tolerate any blatant sexist B.S.,but you had better be ready to hang with the boys.
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Buddha
2066 posts
Jun 16, 2010
5:29 PM
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quit your pussy footing around and say who and what you mean...
she didn't add anything. she never helped and was only looking for accolades.
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"Musicians are the architects of heaven"
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Tuckster
597 posts
Jun 16, 2010
5:34 PM
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Ha Ha I was trying to be diplomatic. I'd rather not talk ill of somebody. She's very talented,but she has-uh-issues.
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nacoran
2143 posts
Jun 16, 2010
6:03 PM
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Buddha, I disagree about whether she added something to the forum. I think she did. At one point I seem to recall you quoted her about your harmonicas and I've noticed you list her in your key words on a couple of your YouTube videos. I only saw the part of the argument that occurred here, so I won't comment beyond saying it would have been nice if you two could have resolved your differences. You argue with me all the time, so at least you treated her the same way as the guys! :)
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Nate
Facebook
Last Edited by on Jun 16, 2010 6:13 PM
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Tuckster
598 posts
Jun 16, 2010
6:04 PM
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Maybe up to a point,but in her case, I think it kept her from the success she craved.
P.S. This my be a new record for the most off topics in one thread.
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GermanHarpist
1550 posts
Jun 16, 2010
6:04 PM
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"she's bat shit crazy" ... whatever 'but' may follow to that... this shouldn't be said about other people, whatever the context.
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captainbliss
172 posts
Jun 16, 2010
6:40 PM
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@Buddha:
/a fact is a fact/
Undeniably true.
Your (I presume unqualified?) opinon on mental health issues is not, however, a fact.
I've never met you, so...
All I've got to judge you on is MBH and YouTube and honestly...
You seem like a decent, generous bloke to me.
I wonder, though, if you've considered:
1. whether throwing around (seemingly) flippant judgements about someone's mental health is the kind of potentially discriminatory behaviour you'd want to engage in at all?
2. whether a forum entitled Modern Blues Harmonica has anything to do with you not liking someone and/or thinking someone is nuts?
So...
A request:
Please don't let stuff that doesn't really matter get in the way stuff that does.
xxx
EDIT: corrected grammar and sense. Grrr. Why can't I write coherently first time round?
EDIT 2: Or even second time round... We'll see...
Last Edited by on Jun 16, 2010 6:46 PM
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Nastyolddog
936 posts
Jun 16, 2010
6:49 PM
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Dear Chris i wasn't a member of the Forum at the time
so i can't realy speak on the matter as a Member,
i was at the time a serial Lurker,for me to cast blame on your shoulders would be unfair,
i followed her journey through the bowls of MBH some wanted to digest what she had to say some just wanted to let i pass like a nasty bowl movement,
there where some what i thought where back hand comments uncalled for by other members evaluting her playing other than you,
this to me if i where a woman trying to contribute to a forum of male dominated Harmonicists i would find offensive,or Hurtful or if maybe this was a young lady it would be intimidating,
as i say i wasn't a member of MBH at the time this is what i observed as a Lurker i allso thought Adam took to long to intervien,
maybe when she was looking for a friend ,the hand of friend ship was not held forward makeing her decide to leave,
i read the posts by foundation members saying they don't like the new wave of MBH members and there rudeness or vulgar launguage attacks insults made to people,
Brothers and Sisters,,,,,,Brothers and Sisters
I SAY BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!!!!
do i sound like im Praying to the wrong people
or are the wrong people doing the praying,
we can only follow in your foot steps i tread the path you have trod,
so to be Blameing the new Members for being rude is some what Hipocritical,thats my lot may sound like rot but thats all i got I'm out on this one,
PS i hate when you come @ me you came @ me when i was a wild young man i would come strait back @ cha but it wouldn't be nice,
Pleas Yo Me or Bro Me:)
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nacoran
2148 posts
Jun 16, 2010
6:54 PM
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Buddha, I'm not spoiling for a fight. I'm not trying to sugar coat it, I just don't bring it up unless it's necessary. If someone bugs me that much I just tune them out.
I think you and I are similar in that we both like to have the last word. We may get really upset about something, but it tends to make us more engaged in what is going on. Other people react by withdrawing. I grew up with someone like that. I learned that sometimes the best way to win an argument with someone like that is to let them have their way and then discuss it when things calm down. It took me years to realize that the only way to 'win' an argument like that is not to have the argument. It was a WOPR moment for me. I realized you can't win at tic tac toe or Global Thermal Nuclear War.
I only know her from a couple posts back and forth on YouTube and the short while she was here when I first got here.
"Yeah I use her name in my vids she's a good player and when people watch my vids, her vids will show up as related, she good enough to deserve that." Buddha
That linking goes both ways, I think, at least in the closed world of YouTube, you may actually get more benefit from it than she does. She seems to get more hits than you.
Sorry, just messing with you on that last bit. :) My only video has something like 3 hits.
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Nate
Facebook
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Buddha
2073 posts
Jun 17, 2010
12:34 AM
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I don't care about her, she has enough of her own issues to deal with and I wish her good luck. I was just stating facts that are out in public. I haven't even begun to touch on the private stuff but I forgive her for that because I understand her condition.
As for the youtube, I clearly do not care about hits. I don't care who is more popular if I did, I would be the first one to be pimping my vids. I don't have a link in my sig line, I rarely post them, I don't care... I only made them to help you guys. There are several with terrible playing but I posted them anyway so whoever wants, can gain insight from my mistakes.
The rehearsals vids I posted prolly shouldn't be there but I put them up so people who are learning can see what happens in a rehearsal. There is nothing spectacular about them music wise.
My use of tags has nothing to do with gaining subscribers or views and has everything to do with helping those that want it and I use tags to other players when I post things I think are related to what they do or when I think they do things better than I. It has nothing to do with me riding on their coat tails. If I wanted a popular youtube channel I would do something much different like teaching cunnilingous from a harmonica player's perspective. This is a tongue flutter etc....
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"Musicians are the architects of heaven"
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hvyj
401 posts
Jun 17, 2010
10:22 AM
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@ness: If everyone on MBH were required to delete posts containing stuff that was better left in their head, there would be a lot fewer threads and a lot less drivel.
If Chris wants to put up posts that are arrogant and assertive that's his prerogative. Frankly, I think they are easier to put up with (and more interesting to read) than those posts that are ignorant and assertive--but nobody seems to get antagonized by those. Go figure.
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Tuckster
611 posts
Jun 17, 2010
10:32 AM
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hvyi-nicely put. I'll second that.
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ness
244 posts
Jun 17, 2010
10:53 AM
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hvyi:
"If everyone on MBH were required to delete posts containing stuff that was better left in their head, there would be a lot fewer threads and a lot less drivel."
Naw -- don't delete them all, just don't post them in the first place. I guess I don't share your view that calling someone names is interesting. I doubt you do either, really.
Fewer threads with less drivel I can get behind.
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John
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Tuckster
612 posts
Jun 17, 2010
10:59 AM
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Ness- I can understand your point of view,too. Buddha's Buddha. What can I say?
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Diggsblues
362 posts
Jun 17, 2010
11:12 AM
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Buddha if it's who I think it is something is a little
different with that person.
She posted a classical piece on diatonic and
asked for a critique and I gave it as honest as
I could. She got defensive. I told her even Howard
Levy would have problems with making every note
sound perfect in a Classical piece.She did thank me
for the critique.
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How you doin'
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Tuckster
613 posts
Jun 17, 2010
11:16 AM
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FWIW-I thought Christelle was extremely self serving and didn't give two sh**s about this forum.
Last Edited by on Jun 17, 2010 11:34 AM
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ness
246 posts
Jun 17, 2010
11:21 AM
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Nice Tuckster. Sheesh.
Buddha: you missed a couple:
6/16 @5:29 and 6/17 @12:34
Mine are gone. I feel refreshed.
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John
Last Edited by on Jun 17, 2010 11:24 AM
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Tuckster
614 posts
Jun 17, 2010
11:38 AM
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Sorry I edited it. But that's the truth. It was obvious to me,plain as the nose on your face. That has nothing to do with talent or "issues". It had to do with the forum itself. "Nuf said,I'm dropping out about taking about her.
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ness
247 posts
Jun 17, 2010
12:28 PM
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Alright, alright.
Just remember these words:
"If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all."
momma ness, 1965
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John
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Buddha
2082 posts
Jun 17, 2010
12:52 PM
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@ness
What do you think of BP and how they are handling things in the gulf?
I bet you would make an excellent soldier.
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"Musicians are the architects of heaven"
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ness
248 posts
Jun 17, 2010
1:51 PM
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Why, thank you Buddha.
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John
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hvyj
402 posts
Jun 17, 2010
3:26 PM
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BP's activities in the gulf are the sort of thing that gives people the blues--even the small people. And it's modern blues for those who make that distinction.
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Buddha
2083 posts
Jun 17, 2010
3:40 PM
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I think a person that DOESN'T speak out against it, is a person that more or less condones it.
This BS about ONLY saying nice things is hogwash. Speak your mind and act, that's how we can change what we don't like.
Ness, you had no issue with tell me what you like and you don't. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.
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"Musicians are the architects of heaven"
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GermanHarpist
1558 posts
Jun 17, 2010
3:50 PM
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Ok,... and I'm speaking up right now... Could this discussion please have an end? We're totally off topic and this is definitely leading nowhere.
Please ness, don't feel obliged to answer... or I think I'll post the locking banner. Be the superior adversary and let this thread die in peace.
Last Edited by on Jun 17, 2010 3:51 PM
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Joe_L
393 posts
Jun 17, 2010
3:52 PM
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@GH - I think the way this thread has changed topics answered the original question.
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GermanHarpist
1559 posts
Jun 17, 2010
3:53 PM
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Yeah,... I know... lol. It says more than anybody could have said in a post.
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MrVerylongusername
1086 posts
Jun 17, 2010
5:23 PM
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OK how about this... getting back to the topic...
More pros don't post on the internet, because all online communities, no matter how diverse, geographically spread, etc... are only just a small sample of the population and are likely to demographically skewed (language and class being huge factors). You could just as easily ask the question why don't more Asians post here? (given the huge popularity of the harmonica family in the Far East)
We shouldn't presume everyone has equal access to to a computer, and internet.
Not everyone can think and express themselves well in English - enough to be comfortable participating on an entirely English speaking forum.
We shouldn't con ourselves into thinking everyone is like us and spends their free time online.
Those pros who do have the time to post between touring commitments, probably just get on with the other stuff instead, the stuff that we all get on with when we're not bitching about what amp sounds best or whether overblows are acceptable in blues.
It's a big world. Not everyone is a net freak.
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ness
250 posts
Jun 18, 2010
5:59 AM
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BINGO!
We're just a tiny fraction of the population. Not everyone is predisposed to posting or even reading internet forums. I know lots of people that don't even know they're out here.
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John
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Nastyolddog
945 posts
Jun 18, 2010
8:29 AM
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BINGO!
there wasting a valuable resourse to get there music out there to the masses,How Do you think i found out BBQ Bob has a album can't wait for it to come:)
how did i get introduced to Nat Riddles,, Via the internet MBH Forum,,i find out Harp ninja has a album im up for it soon,,guess where i found it,,via the internet MBH Forum:)
so Pro's Listen up if you don't like a Forum,,this forum what ever your reason i don't care,
Fact is it pays to belong to a forum or what ever free internet advertising is avaliable to get your music out to the masses,
so i hear MBH has around 4000 members and Growing
so whats the bet you may sell 1 Album or 2,,then Forum members say how much they enjoyed your music it's a must have Album you sell 4,,who knows you may go on tour:)
then theres the rest of the world out there a Looking and a Lurkin if they read how good this Pro is that they have never heard of they may buy your Album allso,,can't see nothing wrong with wanting to belong:)
Didn't ya Granma make you drink Cod livar oil saying it would be good for you,,it left a nasty tast in your mouth but it did help:)
How do i buy your Albums,Custom Harps,Microphones,online lessons,find out when you will be in town to go to your gig,
Belong or Begone!!!!
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Last Edited by on Jun 18, 2010 8:37 AM
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barbequebob
949 posts
Jun 18, 2010
1:41 PM
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Well, when you're playing more locally or regionally, there's more time to participate, but if you're touring nationally or internationally, that's a different ball game and most of you have never had to deal with the business side of music at all, and so many of these things, you just flat out have no clue about what has to be done.
Much of the business side of things isn't done in just a single email or phone call and many of these guys are the only ones doing the driving of their vehicle and the drives are often VERY LONG drives and the scheduling and the logistics of it all can be a real bitch, to put it nicely, and the business side of things MUST be attended to FIRST and done ASAP.
Trust me, there's tone of phone tag happening, confirming, reconfirming, even if it say x, y, and z on the contract, you HAVE to reconfirm EVERYTHING and that's just for starters. There's also vehicle maintenance, making sure everyone gets ready ON TIME so you don't wind up being late for the gig and I think if any of you writing things like belong or begone take the time to take a course on the business side of music (and now there are such things, and years ago, there sure weren't any of these things at all), you'd be saying a different tune, and you'd be cutting them a lot more slack.
Hell, just dealng with the individua musicians themselves plus club owners/managers/club booking agents alone can be a nightmare business to deal with.
@Nastyolddog. Hey, I understand what you're saying but you're only looking at it from your point of view and yours ONLY, and trust me, there's a whole different side that you clearly don't know about.
Hell, how many of you know the tax issues you have to deal with as a pro, dealing with booking agents, promoters, club owners, the media, and this is just scratching the surface here. How many of you out there are aware of the things that have to be dealt with on an ongoing basis???? I'd say maybe 1 or 2% of you ot there AT BEST, so it's foolish to be so badly judgemental when you have no real idea of what one has to do in the business.
Very few pro musicians by comparison (especially when compared to the top 1% of the ENTIRE entertainment industry is concerned) are being chauferred around in limos, have roadies, business and personal managers, and all of these things are all taken off the top of what you make, plus having to arrange for things like lodging on your own, and I still haven't scratched the surface about it. How many of you out there reading on thes forums have a REAL clue about it??? I'd say close to ZERO.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Delta Dirt
173 posts
Jun 18, 2010
2:11 PM
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kudzurunner said:"im intrigued for example that Stevie Ray Vaughn became a huge American star at precisely the same moment that Ronald Reagan was campaigning against "welfare queens".
Plottings,espionage,underhandedness,conspiracies etc.
And who would have thought Reagan had such control over the minds of youth and their tastes in the blues. Lets see ... was it 75% or 80% red.
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waltertore
677 posts
Jun 18, 2010
6:39 PM
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I have a firsthand experience clue Bob! I agree with you. Most people think they know about it by doing open mics, and at best some part time regional playing. These players have steady jobs, homes, health insurance, etc.
When your livelihood rests on your gig schedule it is a new game, and usually is void of the above perks unless you are probably in the top 5-10% of blues players. I think today it must be even more intense/time consuming nowadays because many of the touring blues guys are doing all ends of the business on their own. This is exhausting and to get tangled up with the amount of idiots that populate these forums would run you off quick. I have watched Jason learn this the hard way.
I did the whole gamut of being a full time band - booking myself in many different countries (language and time differences alone can make you nuts), fronting the band, hiring/firing band members, supplying the vehicle and sound system, created my own label, dealing with the media, and did this for my entire career. It was hell competeting with the booking agents. they had clubs and regions tied up and I had to work around them, usually in funky clubs that they wouldn't touch. You also had record companies controlling everything so getting your product distributed was useless. There were no cdbaby places then. It was all tightly controlled from the top down and if you weren't in their system, you pretty much starved, regardless of how much talent you had. It was door to door selling to record stores and off the stage. but today anyone can do like I am doing - build your own studio and make recordings that sound pretty darn close to the pro studio stuff. There was no internet when I was living off music. If there was, like there is today, I would not get involved with forums. My time off was spent getting away from the music scene and refreshing. It also meant doing short stints of manual labor when times were tough until paying gigs came along. This close to zero Bob talks about is like high school baseball vs. the majors. You never will get it unless you do it. Kind of like describing the taste of salt to someone that never tried it......... Also the sacrafices one has too make to get to the majors few will do- even if they have the talent. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jun 18, 2010 7:13 PM
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Nastyolddog
947 posts
Jun 18, 2010
6:41 PM
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How many of you out there reading on thes forums have a REAL clue about it??? ie Booking gigs,
I'd say close to ZERO.
Bob please don't insult myself and every one else
i think your comment is most nieve :(
My Post was ment to be provocative and attacking the consciousness of Persons Muso's or Pro's that may be Lurkers,
my provoctive post is saying even if you don't like something theres just some things in life you have to do to make a buck,,,,
you may not like belonging to a club or forum what ever,,,, they may leave a nasty tast in your mouth but there are some benfits,
yes it does take a lot of effort to run a Business
but you got to be clued into the world these days let the internet pay,,,, it's there use it,
we got 16 year old kids makeing millions Because Mummy posted vids on Youtube,
Muso's want to be found keep walking around out in the Dark it won't happen no record producers walking around out in the car park ,,,,
come into the Light the Light of the Internet let it shine,,,, You may Just get found by some lazy ass executive surfin the net he may be looking at a forum you might have your Youtube Linked to it hey presto:)
but mostly there looking at Youtube and other mediums
so get it out there I might find a few more Albums to Buy:)
we can never be out of contact today Lap tops Twiter Facbook what ever myspace,,,, if you have not got time to use these Mediums you haven't got a good Business Head on your Shoulders use it,,,
Belong or Begone
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Last Edited by on Jun 19, 2010 2:48 AM
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GermanHarpist
1568 posts
Jun 18, 2010
6:48 PM
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I have to agree with Bob that time is a huge factor. Plus you could add, that the folks that you reach through the hours and hours that you would have to spend on the forum a nothing compared to the people that you could reach spending the time touring.
Being on the forum simply isn't really worth it for the pro's however, being on Youtube, me thinks, is a different story. That really is worth the (very little) necessary time.
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MrVerylongusername
1089 posts
Jun 19, 2010
2:23 AM
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Bob, with all due respect I think that's a somewhat flawed argument. I'm not denying that the life if a touring pro is hard work, but so is any demanding job. I have a job that takes up lots of my time. I often work well beyond the 9 to 5, I have to negotiate contracts, chase up people who don't want to be contacted on the phone, sort out taxes, etc... It might have nothing to do with gigging, but it takes as much time. I'm sure everyone with a demanding job could say the same. I think people may well underestimate the work a bandleader has to do, but don't underestimate the work that us semi-pros and amateurs have with our regular day jobs.
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Ev630
640 posts
Jun 19, 2010
4:21 AM
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"How many of you out there reading on thes forums have a REAL clue about it??? I'd say close to ZERO."
I'd say you'd be wrong.
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waltertore
679 posts
Jun 19, 2010
4:23 AM
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sleeping in different beds everynight - hard, soft, smelly, loud, hot, cold, alone can reak havok on most. Dealing with different crappy foods, all preprared in restraunts is another tough one. Dealing with drunks, and unbalanced people everynight (bars are full of them). Dealing with tons of miles to be driven between gigs (often sleeping in the vehicle because you have to drive distances right after packing up gear). Washing your clothes in hot depressing laudromats. Playing to uappreciative crowds much of the time. Dealing with gear breakdowns in forgien towns and the local music stores can't fix it while you wait. Accidents on the roads that delay your ETA. Dealing with time changes and language differences and climate changes - you may play in SF tonight and Florida in a few days. Dealing with being shortchanged on pay and canceled gigs when you are depending on that money to carry you for the rest of the week. Dealing with vehicle breakdowns and your credit card is maxed out and your cash doesn't equal the repair. Dealing with being sick and playing anyway because you need the money. Driving 12 straight hours after playing because a tiny little radio station is going to interview you and promote your gig in their town. Having band members quit in mid tour or having to fire them in mid tour because of their bad habits. Sharing rooms with bandmates which makes you connected at the hip basically 24/7 because you can't afford to have seperate rooms. Dealing with a disaster at home via the phone because you are 2,000 away. Missing you wife and dogs big time. I could go on for many more lines......... But this may give some a bit more insight into what a blues band, that they consider really big time deals with everyday. This is a small glimpse into what a full time touring musician deals with on a daily basis. Lots of guys hear have dealt with these things, but very few for months, or years on end. So when they get some time off do they want to engage with such stuff that has gone on in this topic alone all so they can sell a few cds????? Walter
PS: I am off to play the the farmers market and sell the dog biscuits my special education high school students make. Do I miss all the above? No way. I am happy to be able to play 3 blocks from home. The old blues guys never ceased to amaze me with their endurance to tour regularly under such conditions.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jun 19, 2010 4:36 AM
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Ev630
641 posts
Jun 19, 2010
5:01 AM
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Considering that Walter and Bob are busy posters on this site and elsewhere (and almost always with VERY long and dense posts), are we to understand that by your own standards you guys aren't pro musicians?
You can't have it both ways, gentlemen.
;)
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kudzurunner
1608 posts
Jun 19, 2010
7:52 AM
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Sure they can. They're pros who have lived the life--they've toured, they can speak from experience--and now they're off the road.
I was never a full-time touring pro, just a weekend warrior who played 60-80 gigs a year for six or seven years, with occasional one-week jaunts during the summer. I always had a manager and/or booking agent, so I didn't have to get my own gigs, except for a few local things. So I can't really speak about the sort of life those guys live. But even my little taste of it makes me know that BBQBob and Walter are right about the unusual stresses that that sort of life throws on your. It's different from even the most stressful office job, which usually tends to end you up in your own bed when the day is over. It's more like the life of a traveling salesman, with one crucial difference: You're working hard, in a very physical way, for three or four hours, late at night, and then you're not getting enough sleep. Throw in the occupational hazards like booze, cigarette smoke, etc., and it's pretty draining.
It's a whirlwind. Once you're off the road, it's a lot easier to catch up on sleep and, like Bob and Walter, participate in forums like this.
Ev360, the only way you could know what the life is like is either by living it--and perhaps you have--or by having a number of close friends who have lived it. In the latter case, you still can't really know. I'll be the first to admit that 60-80 gigs a year is very different from 200 gigs a year, much less 300. So even I don't really know. But I do know just enough to know that I don't really know.
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Ev630
643 posts
Jun 19, 2010
8:59 AM
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I think most of us are intelligent enough to understand the concepts.
And those of us who have lived out of a suit case extensively doing different jobs (including in the entertainment industry) involving long hours, chasing work, cutting contracts, dealing with asshole bookers and club managers, facing disappointment and being screwed, can easily extrapolate and appreciate the issues faced by someone who is a touring musician.
All I'm saying is, presume nothing.
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