528hemi
113 posts
May 20, 2010
11:52 AM
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I am thinking of buying one and have heard they are very good 5 watt amps for harp, home use and studio recording, etc.
How does this amp really stack up to the other small amps out there. Price wise these can be bought from 200.00 to 350.00 depending on condition.
Please respond if you played or heard it live. I dont want the on you yube it sounded good or I read it was a nice harp amp somewhere else.
Any comparison to more expensive boutique amps or other vintage more expensive amps?
I know that Greg loves these amps. :)
Thanks 528hemi
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HarpNinja
475 posts
May 20, 2010
12:13 PM
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I've played it live. With the stock speaker, it needs to be miked and monitored for sure. Worth every penny for sure, but not loud enough for full band gigs.
I'd imagine a different 10" speaker would be pretty sweet.
I am trying to get a duo started up here where it would be a mix of acoustic harp/guitar with electric. A Model 2 is on my short list of amps to use for that. It is "dirtier" than a tolex Champ, but I didn't compare with a tweed Champ.
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Rick Davis
440 posts
May 20, 2010
12:38 PM
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Greg Heumann likes these amps and sells K-zoo amps that he has refurbished. I'm sure he'll be along soon to tell you about them. His amps are worth every penny, and represent one of the great bargains in harp amps.
However, it is still a small amp that puts out 5 watts (on a good day) and is a bit of a one-trick pony. The tone is quite distorted in a way typical of single-ended EL84 amps. If I were to buy a small class A harp amp (and every harp player should own one) I'd opt for a 6V6 amp instead. But, that is just my preference; I like the warmer tone instead of the raspier crackle. Many players love the K-zoo.
The stock speaker in the K-zoo can be quite beamy. The amp is way too underpowered for any kind of work at blues jams. I know a guy here in Denver who brings a K-zoo amp to jams and drapes a SM57 mic through the handle and down over the speaker. It sounds good, but without the PA support there is no way he could be heard. This also means he will have trouble hearing himself unless he is in the monitors, which introduces a whole new raft of feedback issues.
For home and practice I would give the Kalamazoo amp a big thumbs up. Not so sure about recording; I'd pick something with a little more breadth of tone.
None of this is meant to slam the Kalamazoo amp. You asked for opinions from people who have played them, and I've played them enough to know their limitations. Still, they are a very fun amp and a great bargain.
UPDATE: I forgot to compare it to more expensive boutique amps, as you asked. The Harpgear HG2 is a VASTLY better amp, but it should be... it costs a lot more. For home practice where you work on perfecting you amp tone and mic technique, you can't beat the K-zoo for smiles per dollar.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
Last Edited by on May 20, 2010 12:45 PM
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bigd
129 posts
May 20, 2010
12:58 PM
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I prefer my little Premier and Magnatone to the Kaly I owned for years. However I'm speaking generic as opposed to a Greg Heumann(ized) amp which seems to be universally accepted as a superior Kaly for the harp. Definitely get the added insurance of one of his "gone over" amps. As already nailed: I would never bring this to a full band situation. p.s. No affiliation but Greg is a very dialogic guy. d
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Myspace: dennis moriarty
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Joe_L
279 posts
May 20, 2010
2:17 PM
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For home use and studio recording, they are very good. If you are buying one, I would buy it from Greg. He does great work. He swaps out components that are out of spec. He also fixes some design flaws. I've played through a few of the amp's he has fixed up. They sound great.
If I bought a Kalamazoo, I would have Greg go over it. He's told me that he's never bought one that didn't need some work done to it. Considering many of them are 40+ years old, that's to be expected. If it needs a transformer or new speaker, I would probably pass and move onto the next one.
They would need to be amplified for use outside the house or studio.
Tonally, I think the tweed Champ clone I built from a kit sounds better. (It could be personal preference or bias. I like both amps.) It absolutely buries a Kalamazoo volume-wise. I'm not quite sure why. The speaker might be a bit more efficient.
I've probably got more money invested in the Champ, but the prices of the Kalamazoo's continue to creep up. I know the quality of the parts in the Champ will last longer and the cabinet isn't likely to disintegrate.
If you've got the dough and you want to get your money back when you get tired of the amp, buy a Victoria 518 or a tweed Champ reissue on the used market. Buy used. If you don't overpay, you can always sell that amp for the price you paid for it.
If you can't get good tone out of a Champ or a (refurbished and up to spec) Kalamazoo, you didn't have any tone to start with.
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harpwrench
260 posts
May 20, 2010
2:41 PM
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I've had one for a few years. IMO it is the perfect amp for home, and practicing your chops. It's not a one trick pony in a home situation unless you don't know how to move the knobs. I can get a very wide range of extremely lovely tones between the knob settings and a few mics (it sounds good with all of them too). But on stage the tendency is to crank an amp up if you can't hear it; in that case it's less versatile tonally.
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Rick Davis
442 posts
May 20, 2010
5:11 PM
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Bruce Collins emailed me these old Kalamazoo sales brochures and asked me to post them in this thread:
"Here's some sales junk my brother and I picked up from Gibson in one of many journeys out to their factory when I was a kid with a new driver's license living on the far west side of Detroit in Wayne County."
If any of you would like higher resolution images of this stuff, just let me know.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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rbeetsme
268 posts
May 20, 2010
7:30 PM
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There are better small amps out there, vintage Fender Champ, Harpgear, Kendrick, and others, but they cost more, a lot more. I bought one from Greg some years back, it stacked up well against my Kendrick Champ clone and vintage Alamo. Really hard to go wrong for the price, the right sound, tone, light weight and loud enough.
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Harpaholic
97 posts
May 20, 2010
8:21 PM
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I'd take a FATDOG 1A over the HG anyday! It's much louder, (12" speaker) and it's got better tone, imo. I owned a HG2 and the 1A at the same time. I sold the HG2, and held on to the Fatdog for two years, which is a record for me. Kicking myself for selling it to this day.
The small HG's are good amps, but Fatdog better! This comes from a current DT owner
The Zoo is a good litte amp, imo, better for guitar, but still a good harp amp.
528Hemi, keep in mind 99.9% of them on ebay will need a cap job/service, tubes, and maybe a speaker, or a baffle? So you will have $400 or more in it after it's all done.
The difference in price of the HG, Fatdog, or a restored Zoo isn't significant, so why not buy new?
You only live once!
HarpNinja, have you ever tried a Harmony H410A? (10" speaker) It will smoke the Zoo in tone!
Last Edited by on May 20, 2010 8:22 PM
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Greg Heumann
469 posts
May 20, 2010
11:07 PM
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I've now rebuilt and sold about 85 Kalamazoo Model 1 and Model 2 amps.
I concur with most of what's been said - they have a very cool tone that never fails to make people smile. They are louder than most 5W amps (many of which have 8" speakers as opposed to the 'Zoo's 10") but that is NOT saying they're loud enough for jams, as has been said. I have recorded with it - alone and using it as the front end to a larger amp like my Cruncher. I have performed with it that way too. For this purpose line out is the way to go. Compared to what people will pay for a Fender Champ, they're still a bargain. They are good, fun, functional amps.
And I guarantee the one you buy on eBay won't be right. If they're original, they need a rebuild. If they have been rebuilt - ... let's just say you can't believe the crap I've seen. Wrong components, terrible wiring, stupid component location, lack of strain relief on power cord, twisted/electrical taped connections, failure to identify weak components, etc. But a properly rebuilt one is a joy to behold.
@Harpaholic: I HAVE a Harmony 410. You're welcome to buy it - I'll sell it cheap. It doesn't come close to the Kalamazoo in tone, but it is even further apart in volume. 8" speaker, tubes that you can't get any more, and a very weak amp. Sorry - but I disagree with you on this.
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/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by on May 20, 2010 11:08 PM
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conjob
57 posts
May 21, 2010
1:00 AM
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was gonna start another thread but this seems a good place. has anyone tried a vox ac4tv if so would it be a good first/practice amp? roughly $250 new
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conjob
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528hemi
114 posts
May 21, 2010
6:21 AM
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Greg,
I will give you a call later today. I know someone that sold a few of these and he has one that is as nice as you can find for being 40 years old. 3 prong power chord and power caps replaced. Original speaker, original tubes (as far as can tell) The price is good but want to talk to you as like others say, if I send it to you to jsut go over it with shipping both ways and any modifications, might be almost the same price as one you might be able to supply and you give a warranty. :)
528hemi
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Ev630
488 posts
May 21, 2010
6:49 AM
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Come on man - buy one from Greg. ;)
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rbeetsme
269 posts
May 21, 2010
6:53 AM
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Greg, I had 2 Harmonys, sold one for less than I paid, gave the other away. Not bad little amps, just don't compare to to the Zoo.
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528hemi
115 posts
May 21, 2010
7:42 AM
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EV630,
If he has one as clean as the one I am looking at, I might consider. It is very clean and the price shipped to me is fair.
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MJ
169 posts
May 21, 2010
7:43 AM
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@conjob, I have an AC4TV sittting in my closet that I thought might be good for harp. Thought is the key word. To me it is way too bright for good harp sound. Guitar players love it. The attenuator is also not what it is cracked up to be and the pc board traces are so wimpy that mods are tricky.
I have owned a couple of Kalamazoos and have 2 or three k-clones that are much better suited to harp than the Vox. However I agree with Rick that I prefer the 6V6 for good harp tone.
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528hemi
116 posts
May 21, 2010
7:44 AM
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On another note. Do most zoo owners change the original speaker and does that improve the tone? IF so, what would you recommend?
528hemi
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6SN7
60 posts
May 21, 2010
8:35 AM
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I use a Sears silvertone amp model 1682 (i think), great amp and avaiable on ebay. The dan electros are good too.
I know a lot of players who buy these cheap off ebay for 150 and use them as studio amps in the home.
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Harpaholic
99 posts
May 21, 2010
8:54 AM
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Greg, rbeets, I'm talking about the H410A with the stock 10" speaker. Not the H400, or the 300 series
@ Greg "8" speaker, tubes that you can't get any more, and a very weak amp"
The stock tubes of the early 60's 410, and 410A are 6BQ5, 5Y3, 12Ax7, 6AU6. I can get them anywhere!
The 410A is pretty rare, and not as well known as the Zoo's.
Gary, (Sonny Jr) told me about the 410A ten years ago, claiming he liked the tone more than the Zoo.
I bought a Zoo from him, and a 410A on ebay, and he was right!
FYI, I know of two well respected harp player/techs on this board that prefer the Harmony H410A over the Zoo.
It's been discussed on the Weber board.
Hopefully they will chime in?
I know this isn't a comparison of the two amps, there both great amps for harp.
Last Edited by on May 21, 2010 9:24 AM
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Harpaholic
103 posts
May 21, 2010
9:29 AM
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528 Hemi, there is a Multivox/Premier Bass Combo on Ebay in the same price range from a great harp player. (Mark Grandfield)aka Marktova.
It's similar to the Twin 8 circuit with a 12" speaker.
Dennis, and I both own one. It's loud, fat, thick, and feedback friendly. The Zoo is not even in the same league as this amp.
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Rick Davis
444 posts
May 21, 2010
9:51 AM
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I know I'm wandering a bit off topic, but Ronnie Shellist has an old Harmony H420 that I played at one of his seminars. Wow, what a great harp amp! Two 6L6 and a vintage 15-inch Jensen speaker.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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528hemi
117 posts
May 21, 2010
11:35 AM
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Harpaholic,
Why did you have to do that. :) just when I thought I knew what I wanted for the dollars. LOL
Now I will have to check into that Multivox/Premier Bass Combo although I know nothing about these amps.
Edit: what do I search for in ebay? nothing shows up when I search for the above.
528hemi
Last Edited by on May 21, 2010 11:39 AM
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Ray
202 posts
May 21, 2010
11:48 AM
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For the MONEY, you can't go wrong with a Kalamazoo Model 1. 8o)
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Old Dog
55 posts
May 21, 2010
1:03 PM
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@ Greg...Just curious, how much does a typical K'zoo 2 overhaul usually cost? I've got one stuffed in the back of my attic, and this thread has me interested in it again. It seems to be in good solid condition.
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I used to be young and foolish. Now I'm not so young.
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Rick Davis
449 posts
May 21, 2010
1:19 PM
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Dog, Greg is busy at HCH. Check his website here for info about the Kalamazoo amps.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Harpaholic
106 posts
May 21, 2010
5:24 PM
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Hemi, apparently the amp didn't sell, people don't realize how good that amp is. Ask Dennis about his.
Harpsucker has a video of the amp. Multivox combo bass. The video is not a great example of the amp, but it will give you an idea. Here is the ebay listing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Multivox-Combo-Bass-Amp-Vintage-Tube-Harp-Amplifier-/320533582581?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa14a52f5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guBnu6WE4Nc
I can give you the sellers private email if your really interested.
I also have an audio file playing harp with that the amp in a three piece band (harp/guitar, rhythm guitar, and drums unmiced.
When I bought mine from Mark it had the same speaker as the one for sale. The Jensen P12R is one of the best speakers for that amp.
Last Edited by on May 21, 2010 5:27 PM
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bigd
131 posts
May 21, 2010
5:43 PM
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Oh! I didn't check but I'm sure that's my amp Mark is selling. I know this sounds aggressive but you would be a fool not to buy the Multivox relative to the Kaly (Yes I've owned both- but not a Greg N. refurb). So why is Mark selling my Multivox: We're friends and I needed something smallish with a 15'' so I traded a Premier b160 with a 15'' in a smaller Premier cabinet for the Multivox. And the Multi that Harpsucker (I believe it was his last amp review) reviewed was from Mark also. True story about the Multivox leading to one of the richest musical experiences of my life: I was using it with my band at Ashford & Simpson's Sugar Bar when the owner: Nick Ashford (he and his wife wrote for Chaka and Marvin and, etc and play around the world) heard us and Loved my playing. He later was galvanized to create a "Nuttin but the Blues" weekly series based on our performances audience response. Awkwardly he isolated me from my band and hired me to do 4 hour shows each Tuesday with a bunch of studio guys backing the hottest blues divas in the universe (many from shows like "Dreamgirls, etc). What a blast this has been. The multivox is a soulful, loud, really light secret weapon! Harpaholic looked out for you there. no affiliation-although Mark is a friend with integrity. Great singer and harp player too (via "high kings of blue" on Myspace). My best. d
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Myspace: dennis moriarty
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Old Dog
56 posts
May 21, 2010
6:02 PM
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@ Rick... Thanks for the heads up and the link. I'll check it out. Man, I wish I coulda got away for HCH!
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I used to be young and foolish. Now I'm not so young.
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Harpaholic
108 posts
May 21, 2010
6:22 PM
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Dennis, Even though the Multivox is a killer amp,
I'm sure they would have offered you that gig no matter what you were playing through. You have serious skills, and phrasing matched with real soul
Mark is a straight up guy, with some mad vocal and harp skills. He has litterally owned every tube Premier/Multivox amp ever made. Before he started selling them off a few years ago, he had over 200 in storage.
If you ask him what his favorite is, the Combo Bass amp will always come up. Most of the songs on his Myspace page he was using a Premier amp, and a If I remember right, a couple are the Combo Bass amp.
I recommend everyone check out his Myspace page.
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528hemi
118 posts
May 21, 2010
8:33 PM
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Harpaholic,
Can I send you a personal email?
528hemi
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Ev630
490 posts
May 21, 2010
8:42 PM
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Buy it hemi. Pull the trigger.
Buy an amp already. This endless tire kicking is killing me!
;)
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528hemi
119 posts
May 21, 2010
8:49 PM
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EV630
You are the best! By the way EV630 knows his amps and is a great guy which goes out of his way to help noobs :)
528hemi
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Ev630
495 posts
May 22, 2010
6:51 AM
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I almost bought a Regal last year.
Mmmmm-m-m-mmmm. Reee-e--e-e-egaaaaalllll...
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Harpaholic
115 posts
May 22, 2010
8:18 AM
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EV, what's the deal with the Victoria Blowbox harp amp?
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Ev630
496 posts
May 22, 2010
9:39 AM
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It ain't here yet. I am in between houses and stuff here in the ME, so I had the guy ship it to Clark, who's installing an Aussie trannie. (Not an Oxford street Tranny like you'd see at the Albury Hotel in Surry Hills... an electrical component thingy).
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MP
326 posts
May 22, 2010
10:21 AM
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mooohahahahaaaah! buy, buy, buy, oh powerless ones. the key to happiness through vacuum tubes. moohahahaaah!
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Harpaholic
123 posts
May 22, 2010
6:16 PM
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EV, I'm confused!
Do you know someone with a Vic blowbox?
Are they in production?
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