I recorded these tonight. The more time I spend on the internet,the more depressing it often is. What brings me down is a new breed arising - the internet bluesman. He never leaves the comfort of his non musical life, buys top gear, learns licks verbatum, and declares himself a true bluesman. I am not talking about guys that love it as hobby, but the ones that claim to be right up there with the real deal guys. Here are some songs from todays session. Walter
the internet bluesman sham tough times are part of living right my journey with breaking new ground shake them blues till their through
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Walter: Please be specific and name names. I'm not familiar with the breed you're referencing. Who on earth has made a reputation based soley, or primarily, on internet postings and claims "to be right up there with the real deal guys"? I can think of some younger players--Brandon, Jay Gaunt--who haven't played many gigs or led bands or released albums and who have considerably more fame than their equivalents would have had in the age before the internet, but I don't see them claiming to be up there with the real-deal guys, or not precisely that. I see them as young strivers doing what young strivers have always done: practicing like crazy, reaching for the next rung, networking, and paying some dues. Is that who you're talking about?
Or are you talking about Christelle?
If that's who you're talking about, I hope they steal your gigs.
But of course they can't, and you know that. You do what you do, and nobody else can. So why waste time complaining?
The world of blues, and the larger world of showbusiness, are what they are. It's always been the case that some players worked the levers of power in a way that got them the record deal and the national rep, and other guys--equally talented, maybe even more talented--remained merely local heroes. Tom Principato comes to mind, and there are guys like that strung out across America. Danny Gatton.
But I'll tell you what: If you're willing to trim down your signature line here at the MBH forum, to remove the phrases "2,000 of my songs" and "continuous streaming - 200 most current songs," then I'll concede you your point: some people make immoderate use of the internet.
Frankly, I'd prefer that you NOT trim down your signature line. I like that you're self-promoting. And I recognize, in Brandon and Jay and Christelle and their internet self-promotions, a spirit that is more kindred to you than you seem willing to concede. A shrewd old bluesman, it seems to me, knows what you and I know: that there's nothing to fear from the young, until they actually begin to accumulate the on-the-job experience that makes a difference. At that point they do indeed become serious competition, and it's always been like that. Believe it or not, there was a point in the early 1990s when I was much better than Dennis Gruenling and Jason Ricci, and each of them asked me for a lesson or two. Then they played five years' worth of gigs and they were serious competition. Now they've left me in the dust and I'm trying to catch up. Value the youth. They have much to teach.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2010 7:16 PM
And I will add this from my own perspective. There is a HUGE difference between live: running a band, setting up, tearing down, booking gigs, rehearsing, making set lists, crowds, drunk dancers, getting paid (or not), paying the band, promoting, always promoting...... and:
sitting in front of a computer playing to a backing track, no matter how many takes it takes to get it worthy of posting.
We ALL know that. Nobody is getting rich in this business. Nobody. So do what you do and do it well. Everyone follows their own path. Good musicians will be noticed, and so will bad ones - no matter what medium they choose. ---------- /Greg
Greg, I couldn`t agree more! I`ve had more than enough real experience with everything you`ve mentioned. It`s not the kind of stuff you learn in an open jam or you can pretend you have and post on the internet and BS people. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
do you know why blues is basically a dead genre? Because it refuses to go with the flow. It's selfish music and like all selfish things change is not something it does.
you should consider embracing the new champions for the blues, without them Blues doesn't have a chance. do you love your music or just yourself?
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Bro you make some big claims your self Ive always wonderd about this claim,
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band
?what makes this one man band better than the rest, after all if you are the real one man band, your claiming that the rest aren't real one man Bands or in fact there shit and your the real deal?
over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing.
?Are they spontaneously created songs or spontaneousely created ramblings,
I record about 300 full length cds a year
?How old are you,how many full lenth Cds Have you recorded to Date,
?Who is buying these Cd's how much did your biggest seller Gross,
?You Have mentioned many times,
You won't leave the comfort of your musical life and declare your self a "Real" one man band:/
i think you should sponto a song tonight called reflections of a Jelouse Blues man,
Come out name these Guys if there that good i want to listen to them pinch some of there tricks....
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2010 2:20 AM
IMO, "bluesman" is not a label that somebody can put on himself : you have to be recognized as such, by your audience and by your peers.
That said, I don't know who are the people Walter is referring of, but I don't need to know that, I get the idea anyway. It's the same thing as Greenday being labelled "punk" or Rhianna "R n'B". That makes no sense to me.
Buddah wrote "do you know why blues is basically a dead genre? Because it refuses to go with the flow. It's selfish music and like all selfish things change is not something it does. you should consider embracing the new champions for the blues, without them Blues doesn't have a chance. do you love your music or just yourself?"
For someone who frequently claims to have little interest in blues, you seem to have a lot to say on the subject. I am not aware that the blues is dead, neither are the guys I know with heavy gigging schedules, who are constantly writing new albums worth of material.
The blues has/does/always will change. It's popularity comes around in cycles. The phrase "blues" covers a wide spectrum, there will always be guys trying to expand the envelope & those seeking to keep the traditions alive...like in Jazz, Country, Soul...
I can't imagine why the blues is any more/less "selfish" than any other genre (or any more/ less peckish, sociable, playful, out-going, GSOH, having a bad hair day...or any other irrelevant personification that YOU want to apply).
You're entitled to your "perception", but stating it like it is some kind of "fact" is another thing...especially when it is clearly very much outside your sphere of interest/expertise. If there's something I'm not interested in, I just don't pay any attention to it...I don't start telling those who are interested who to listen to.
Wow, that title got a lot of responses! I will have to chip away at trying to respond to them. First off, the song I wrote is a reflection on the changing face of music. Back in the day before internet, we had music critics that claimed to be authorities (still have them) on what is real music and what is not. Most of these guys never have left their ivory towers.
Now I see guys posting all over the internet with the same kind of brash who back in the day would have been bedroom players. Now they post youtubes and such and present themselves as real bluesmen. A real bluesman to me must have lived the musical life of one. That means abandoning everything but the musical journey. Anything short of this is a hobbyist. That is a great thing, but to start sounding off like a pro, is a sham. They haven't lived the life. It just is a reflection. My music often reflects what is going on in our society. It may be my point of view or not.
Nasty old dog wrote:
?what makes this one man band better than the rest, after all if you are the real one man band, your claiming that the rest aren't real one man Bands or in fact there shit and your the real deal?
By a real one man band, I mean no backing tracks, loops, etc. What you hear on my recordings are pure live, the same you would see if I was doing a gig.
over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing.
?Are they spontaneously created songs or spontaneousely created ramblings,
they are spontaneously captured moments in time. Call them what you want. I call them songs.
I record about 300 full length cds a year
?How old are you,how many full lenth Cds Have you recorded to Date,
I am 53 years old. I don't really know how many I have recorded. I have about 50 cd spindles filled (100 to a spindle) shoe boxes full of 90 minute cassette tapes, cases of reel to reel tapes, and a hundred or so adat and dat tapes. I also have 2 lps.
?Who is buying these Cd's how much did your biggest seller Gross,
I sell them off the stage or to people who order them. The biggest seller? One of my albums- about 3,000. I only make a few of each most recent cds before a gig. I make a low budget cover. I don't mass produce them because I get more excited about the todays songs than the yesterdays.
?You Have mentioned many times,
You won't leave the comfort of your musical life and declare your self a "Real" one man band:/
I don't understand this one.
i think you should sponto a song tonight called reflections of a Jelouse Blues man,
I probably already have. How many people do you know that sing what is in their hearts? I put it out there and heat like this is just a byproduct that occurs when I hit on personal buttons.
Come out name these Guys if there that good i want to listen to them pinch some of there tricks....
These guys are anyone you think they are. I don't name names, I was just singing about a phenomenom in todays musical culture.
Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Walter, you're entirely correct on one point: there ARE a lot of mediocre players posting videos on YouTube who in the old days would have had no world-outlet for their mediocre playing. I'm inclined, today, to be far less judgmental about this than I was a year ago. When I first took a look at harmonica offerings on YT in early 2007, Ronnie Shellist was the one representative pro--that particular video, "Funky Blues Harmonica," now has over a million views--and there were a handful of other amateurs. I decided, rightly or not, that if I uploaded a bunch of videos, the overall level of respectable harp playing on YT would increase incrementally.
One result of this, and especially after my teaching videos were joined by Jason's, Chris's, Richard Sleigh's, and several others, is that YouTube became a place, in effect, for beginners to post evidence of what they were learning from all of us. Everybody likes attention, of course; we ALL had mixed motives. The kids with the REALLY neat skateboard tricks are happy when the other kids watch them. The law of unintended consequences, cross-fertilized by internet democracy, meant that the overall number of YT harmonica videos uploaded by non-pros, so to speak--people who haven't "lived the life," as you might put it--soared. Sure.
After a while I got alarmed by this, but then I began to see other, more intended, but still surprising, consequences--such as the people like our own Kyser and MichaelAndrewLo, who, after a surprisingly short period of time (a year, say), were able to play a remarkably competent version of my North Mississippi Front-Porch Harmonica lesson.
I think the paradigm is shifting beneath our feet. Like Chris (Buddha), I'm encouraged by this. This doesn't mean that I don't agree with you, and BBQ, and Greg H., about the importance of all the blues life BEYOND the videocam. I was lucky enough to have been graced with a chance to live the life of a gigging local guy and a touring pro for just long enough--about a decade, altogether--that I know how irreplaceable that sort of knowledge is. Seasoning counts.
By the same token, too much cynicism is unwise. I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised by what people are able to achieve through internet studies alone. Heck, look what I'm selling on this website! The one video I'm NOT selling, you may notice, is one entitled "How to live the blues life." That can't be taught in one video, or one set of videos. Each player who really wants to get at the juice of the music needs to live his or her own version of the life. It ain't always fun, as you know. I don't even really recommend it--and certainly not to the young!
Meaning that a guy like you doesn't have anything to worry about. You've got lots of stories to tell, and they're interesting stories that take a lifetime to accumulate.
Hi Adam: I really can't name names. It was just a flow of conciousness. Like all my songs. There was no real Tom Joad, but there was a culture created of his type. I don't fear youth. They are the next generation. What I see is an ever growing lack of respect for the elders as the power of the keyboard grows and the actual standing on a stage in a reputable club shrinks.
I share my music in hopes it might spark someone to explore the unique inward stuff that we all possess. Spontobeat is as natural as breathing. Yet it is something that hardly anyone does musically. I have gotten a lot of responses over the 5 years I have been giving my music away for free. My journey is one without forethought. I just walk.
I wonder how many posters that have been offended by my post listened to the song? My music could be me, you, him, her, or them. Much like Tom Joad, I channel the times.
I also have never called myself a bluesman. I am just a person that sings what is inside.
Walter Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Not that Walter was gesturing at Christelle in his OP, above, but Christelle occasionally drops me a line, and she sent me the following response to the issue that Walter raised. I think it's a good contribution to the dialogue, so I'm posting it below.
Here's Christelle's reply:
"[The] internet is a tool, a modern tool yes but nothing more and I've NEVER seen or heard, young guys or new comers that they were the 'real deal' including myself. To understand this I have to explain how this hole internet thing began:
I've began to post things on Youtube for 2 reasons:
1) 2 years ago I was (and still am) alone in France in the french redneck area, no harmonica players around and almost no good musicians, so I said why not sharing my progress on the internet? And I continue to have this attitude, if I were ashamed of what I'm posting I would delete 90 % of what I've posted, but I don't since it shows to people if they're curious how much someone can make progress on this instrument.
2) 2 years ago I was (and still am) unemployed, France is well known to have this unemployment issues for 3 decades, and I was bored, this is as simple as that. What can you do to keep your mind busy? So a Mac with a cam, a free software installed (Garage Band) and my harmonicas, it was simple and easy.
This is how it began.
Along the months I was surprised, very surprised to see that I was receiving comments and messages from people all over the world. More surprisingly Youtube led me in the USA (SPAH Convention), meeting great people (like Greg) and great musicians (like Jason), BUT OF COURSE internet is just a tool, NOT A FINAL GOAL. Walter you don't understand anything about this tool, and players like me NEVER thought it was a new way to perform. But in the other hand I don't know ANY artists that wants to keep the result of their works secret, and Youtube is one of the first available tool to do this these days. Adam, Jason and many other players are using this tool to promote and earn money with it and that's fine, but most importantly TO SHARE their love of the music first and second the love of the harmonica and giving their insight in it.
NO ONE has said that internet was the new play ground of the REAL DEAL musician , but Walter I'm sorry Buddha is right when he said :
"do you know why blues is basically a dead genre? Because it refuses to go with the flow. It's selfish music and like all selfish things change is not something it does.
you should consider embracing the new champions for the blues, without them Blues doesn't have a chance. do you love your music or just yourself?"
This music needs every available media especially the Blues that's slowly dying to become a kind of an ethnic genre.
Here you go Adam. If you think that this answer would make a good one on that subject feel free to post it."
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2010 4:49 AM
For the record, I have never heard of Brandon, Jay Gaunt, or Christelle. I just sing what comes out.
Adam, you have definetely carved your nitch and the net has been a big part of it. I think that is great! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Hobostubs: My music is all about straight, no thoughts. Very little art in our culture does this. Usually when one offends with their art, they are bringing something to the surface that unsettles souls for whatever reasons. I just do what I do and whatever happens from it is not in my musical equation. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
I heard this as a lament for the passing (usurping?) of a tradition, sung by an angry voice, a reaction to a sad sense of loss...
Certainly not an attack on anyone in particular.
And, as ever, thank you for the music.
@Buddha:
/do you love your music or just yourself?/
Both!
(Or do I have to choose?)
Actually, I love lots of other people and their music too!
(Is that OK?)
@Greg Heumann, @barbequebob
/There is a HUGE difference between live: running a band, setting up, tearing down, booking gigs, rehearsing, making set lists, crowds, drunk dancers, getting paid (or not), paying the band, promoting, always promoting....../
...and the waiting...
...and the hurrying up to wait some more somewhere else...
(or is that 'cos I haven't earned the good gigs yet?!)
And...
*seriously*
The way masters create their own space and time.
Their presence, their groove, their stories taking their audience with them is amazing, and, I think, is only achievable by playing live.
In spite of what the OP said...I think what is really depressing him and bringing him down is that the general internet harp listening public is declaring these "bluestubers" to be the "real deal".
I never heard of Walter Tore before the internet and only then because of a particular website. These days he seems to be increasing his territory a bit.
Walter, I find it interesting that you have not heard of these folks who have been discussed widely on at least two websites that you post your wares on?
You know, although i agree with what Adam is saying, Waltertore has a point. There is a species of YouTube virtuoso who will typically post some flamboyant harmonica antics that leave me wondering just what the rest of the band would be doing if the self proclaimed virtuoso were actually playing like that on stage, in public with other musicians.
There is a self delusional or masturbatory element to some of these types of postings since it is very apparent that the musical masturbator has no concept of what it takes to make music in a group context with other musicians. But, besides such performers' capacity for self delusion, they are apparently able to delude others judging from the ridiculous laudatory comments that are often posted in response to such self indulgent unmusical video depictions. Go figure...
Well walter...if nothing else your original post sparked converstion on a number of interesting weighty topics: On balance, is the internet a blessing or a curse for the music world? What does it mean to be a bluesman? Is the blues genre dying just because Buddha says it is? If it is dying, do modern blues musicians have to take the blues in a completely new direction to keep it alive? Why is the blues a selfish music (according to Buddha)?
I don't know if you intended for this to happen with your original rant walter, but thanks for the food for thought.
Helix: I am sorry, but I never have heard of any of those people. I spend most of my free time recording my songs, posting them, and responding to whatever comes of them. I don't watch tv, listen to the radio, go to the movies, read the newspaper. My free time is consumed with more positive musical journies. The media is too negative for me. I spent most of life playing gigs. The net has only been in my life for about 5 years.
captainbliss: I dig what you say! Thanks.
Adam: Thanks for posting that post from her. I thank her for her honesty. I wonder if she listened to the song? THanks to everyone who responds. We are entering a new age of life with technology and music is not immune. Sharing views is the way to go! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Honkin On Bobo: I never have any plans with my music. It just comes out as I do it with no thoughts. Most times it goes unoticed and sometimes I get slammed, cheered. I just let out what is in me. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Honkin On Bobo: I never have any plans with my music. It just comes out as I do it with no thoughts. Most times it goes unoticed and sometimes I get slammed, cheered. I just let out what is in me. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
"do you know why blues is basically a dead genre? Because it refuses to go with the flow. It's selfish music and like all selfish things change is not something it does.
If the blues is a dead genre, then so is rock and roll and jazz.
Point out ONE harp player in any of these genres doing anything new in the past 20 years that isn't just transliteration of innovation (or stale tradition) derived from other instruments.
This obsession with being seen to be innovative is just Emperor's New Clothes bullshit.
I agree w/ Buddha and Ev630. Personally, I don't think the blues is actually dead. But I just can't figure out why so many players believe it should be embalmed.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2010 6:34 AM
Alright, let's talk about the what does it take to be a bluesman question, but first let's rephrase it to: What does it take to play the blues?
The truth for me is that past a certain level of technical competence, I haven't got the slightest idea. I used to think you had to have had a certain set of life experiences that would come out in the music you made, but then i had this experience:
I am at my local blues jam, as a member of the audience only. Having a great time listening to all the great musicians tearing it up. I go over to an adjoining room where you can't see the stage and while i'm talking to someone i hear some awesome blues guitar, just gut wrenching, wailing stuff great stuff. I'm thinking who is this cat? so i walk into the other room and onstage playing all this stuff is an 11 year old kid. So I ask myself: if you must have lived life to some extent to be able to express the passions inherent in the blues...what could this kid have experienced by age 11 that would make him sound like a seasoned bluesman. Totally shook my belief system regarding what makes for a great bluesman indeed a great musician in general.
Nastyoldog: I think you posted a video? I can't see them on this computer. I came up in a generation where respect was earned on the bandstand and ones life was the music. I learned this way. I carried the old guys gear, fixed their cars, bounced guys out the door that hassled them, listened to them talk about their health fears and fears of dying. I use to help Johnny Otis carry his boxes of cds to his car from his weekly radio show for KPFA. His wife would pick him up. I never told him I was musician. He would mainly talk about his aching body and the struggles of getting near death. When I lived with lousisana Red, I helped him on all fronts. I was part of their lives.
I am sure Adam has done similar with Satan. This is how one becomes a real bluesman. It is not about notes, scales, tones, etc. It is a passing down of a way of life. I keep refering to The grapes of wrath and TOm Joad. He struggled with the change of times. My song tapped into that. Was it all me, someone else, a million others? I have no idea. I just sing what comes out of me.
Guys like Sonny Rhodes is a case in point. He devoted his life to being a bluesman. Now he is getting old and I don't see any of the young generation stepping up to book him. He is in bad health and hurting. Guys like Clapton have continually stepped up for the old guys. they created the steps for guys like me to discover the blues. I just don't see that happening as much today. That is the stuff that gets my respect for the younger generation. Playing fancy riffs is easy. Being a bluesman is a lifestyle that goes far beyond playing notes. Walter
Everyone can play the blues, but to be a bluesman is life commitment. YOu forgo everything but the music. Period. We who just play the blues should step up to support the bluesmen. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
@ Honkin On Bobo: You've got to be able to play what you feel in a way that expresses things that can't be said in words but that others understand and relate to.
This requires a certain level of technical ability to be able to make what you feel or what you hear in your head come out of your instrument, it requires an understanding of the blues idiom so it comes out in that format or in that language and it requires an uninhibited freedom of artistic expression to make what you are playing an original statement of your own.
But, first and foremost, it requires blues inside of you because if it's not in there to start with, you can't make it come out. Blues is a fundamental aspect of the human condition. Some come to terms with that emotional reality at an earlier age than others and some never do and others can have the blues and not know it. Some never understand it and therefore can't play it, even though they may have the technical musical ability. Some understand it, but never develop sufficient technical ability on their instrument to be able to express it.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2010 6:55 AM
Rock and Roll isn't dead yet but Jazz is nearly dead just like blues.
All you need to do is ask your next door neighbor about their favorite Pop Star, Rock Band, Jazz Group and Blues Player to get your answer about what is alive and dead.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Rock may have been in a near death state from the mid 70s to some time in the late 80s, but thankfully is no longer on life support.
Hanging around with jazz guys is sort of like hanging around with blues guys, except the jazz guys know more chords and didn't lapse into suspended animation until some time after Jaco died. Most of the blues guys have been waiting to be embalmed since Muddy passed.
I have mulled over the idea of the old bluesmen a lot since I got picked up by a blues band last year. Weirdly enough, i didn't play harmonica yet.
Tonight, a little more than a year later, I have been invited to play at a jam over an hour away in a Lake of the Ozarks blues society venue that hosts one every wednesday. The invitation carries an "audition" implication with the host band and the money is WAY better than around here, even after you deduct the gas and time to drive.
Am I a bluesman yet? Not really, just a musician who stays active and plays whatever is being played on whatever i brought with me. I played conga rhythms on a guitar case once when i stopped into a place after work. I made a shaker out of a basket of dominos at a coffee house once, just to be included. The result? An offer to sit in with the band at their next concert here.
I am no bluesman, but I sort of picture their lives and music going a similar way. I think they just played and went with whatever happened next. My own personal internet postings are primarily for my family back home to get a kick out of. I am in Missouri (misery) and they are in New York.
My primary focus is Live performance. It is way better and the energy compared to jam tracks is no comparison at all.
I think those guys played with energy everywhere they went and fed off each other in a way only live people can.
@congaron: You know, I always play better live than i do when i practice. Feeding off the other musicians (to use your term) is what it's all about. I frequently think of things to play that i would never have come up with playing by myself. Sometimes i can't remember what they were after i get off stage. In the moment, here and gone....
"All you need to do is ask your next door neighbor about their favorite Pop Star, Rock Band, Jazz Group and Blues Player to get your answer about what is alive and dead." All that tells you is what your neighbor knows/doesn't know. Buddha, you have little interest in blues, you're not the person I would ask about the state of the genre, for no other reason than you don't follow it.
Even when blues was "alive", your average neighbor in the 50's wouldn't have given you a sensible answer either (unless he lived in certain neighborhoods). There's the famous quote by a reporter, when Lennon first touched down in the US he was asked what he wanted to do 1st, "Go see Muddy Waters" he said, "Great, where's that?" asked the reporter!
In the UK (as I imagine in the US) the recent financial situation has affected most areas of life, smoking bans have affected pub/club attendances & things probably weren't what they were 10 years ago...for everyone. But new venues pop up every now & then get passed down the grapevine.
Your average "neighbor" usually can't tell his blues from his jazz, from his rock anyway...do your straw poll outside the local mall & you'll see. I like to get to venues early, get a comfy seat & a drink & listen to the speculation..."They said that there's a blues band on tonight, but that feller has got a double bass, must be rockabilly, or jazz, that's it rocking jazz. I like this rocking jazz"...but they're listening to blues. Most typical Brits seem to think rock is blues & blues is jazz.
Seasick Steve is probably a name you'd hear tossed around in the UK as a prominent blues player today, due to TV & festival appearances...then it'll be Clapton, Gary Moore...maybe BB King...
The popularity of all established genres waxes & wanes...dead is dead, anything else is alive. Ask the guys who make their living doing it, ask the guys who work hard by day & still do 50-100 gigs a year by night (as the majority of blues players accross history have always largely done)...
I know of rock'n'roll acts that are unknown to the masses but do 200+ nights a year, sell 500 CDs a week after launch...they're very much alive.
Even for the guys who head the pop charts, they're getting a much smaller slice of the pie than say in the 60's & 70's, million sellers might not have made No.1, nowadays 20,000 down loads will do it! The music industry, as an industry on the whole, isn't what it was. But blues, as a a genre - in all it's forms, is probably as healthy has it has been for much of it's history.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2010 7:48 AM
Question everyone- How has the internet (youtube, song posting sites, etc) played on the decline of club gigs for the real bluesmen?
Most real bluesmen play(ed) small clubs (50-200) capacity. These venues are drying up real quick.
Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Many guys posting stuff are gigging too, ask any venue who has live acts - within a couple of weeks they have 1000+ CDs from prospective acts. I don't think that the internet is having a detrimental effect in that respect...the reverse if anything, people get seen on myspace/youtube & get dates because of it.
My blues harp playing is currently confined to the woodshed and the deck in the backyard. I've played in other venues but not in a blues context so I've not "paid my dues".
On the other hand I recently got into it with my mother-in-law over an issue that's been brewing for 20 years. It will eventually drag in all of my family, extended family and have a detrimental effect on my marriage.
It's a no win situation for me.
I've got the blues. ---------- Ozark Rich __________ ##########
@ hyvj "If you are gigging regularly, it's hard to find time to record and make videos." But it's a necessary evil, how do you break into new markets & venues if you have no product? It's where a lot of (the admittedly small) profit comes from too. A lot of what bands are posting on Myspace etc is tracks off their CDs. There are fans that will video you anyway at gigs.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2010 9:14 AM
I got my first harmonica a little over 3 months ago. I'm as green as they come, but I posted a video on Youtube for fun a few days after I got it.
Youtube is more than a competition for musical validity or an avenue for self distribution. It is also a tool for communication with others, life journaling, and self documentation. You will find pros giving lessons, students replying to those lessons, or someone just documenting their progress (like the 5Kproject dude).
Just because you are more talented than others doesn't mean that they should not use the tools. It's like saying you shouldn't use a phone because you are not Philologist or a published author.
The cream rises to the top. People will find you if you are worth listening to, or watch something else if you suck. I found Ronnie Shellist by chance, then Jason, then Adam. They inspired me to buy a harp. I plan to post vids of my playing as soon as I am able to not make a fool, and I will be proud that I put myself out there blues man or not.
I gig regularly with a funk and soul band (on bass), and I find time to post videos at least once a week. This actually helps drive people to my shows and promotes the bands.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea to make promo CDs and video posts on the internet. It's just hard to find/make time to it depending on what else you have going on.
I'm not a full time musician so have other non-musical demands on my time. The rest of the guys in my band are full time musicians but have other bands they play with, gigs they hired for and teaching commitments. i also have other bands i play with or have standing invitations to sit in with. We've been meaning to do promo recordings for the last i don't know how long but haven't been able to find time.
But it's not a bad idea at all if you can get everyone together to get it done.
getting a high quality video, cd, together for full time musicians that aren't famous, has always been hard. The full time musician that isn't famous rarely keeps the same bandmembers for long, is touring much of the time, barely has enough money to pay bills and eat. Gear/vehicles are in seemingly constant need of repair/replacement. Health issues are something you pray never hit you. Record labels don't want to mess with them because of the fear of sales failure.
The hobbist on the other hand usually has finacial stability compared to the full time, not famous, musician. He takes and leaves his music as it hits him. He can usually afford good gear, his bandmates live close, and they also do other things for money. They often make stellar sounding recordings, and have elaborate practice spaces and top of the line gear.
All the while the full time guys just dream that someday thier endeavors may pan out to such things. Just some reflections from a guy that spent 20 odd years as the not famous full time musician and now has spent about 16 or so as a musician that no longer does it full time, or depends on it for a source of income.
To address one of the young guys... I have read some of Jason's postings on being full time. I would venture to say most on this forum live much more comfortably than he does.
It is all choice. No excuse from either side. Each side comes with different yeahs and nays. But to be a bluesman, you have to walk blindly in persuit of music. From what I can tell, Jason sure does.
To master most anything worthwile persuing takes a lifetime. Life is a finite thing. We all choose what path we will take with our lives. There is no shame or glory with any path except the shame or glory we put on it. The bluesmen I respect and look up to, spent their life doing it. It was their life. Anyone can play blues. I am talking about being a bluesman. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Wouldn't it be weird if 'Internet Bluesman Sham' became a hit because it was a little controversial like 'I Kissed a Girl' or 'Cop Killer'?
Then what if it launched you into a pro situation again where, rather than play spontaneously you had audiences cheering for you to redo your hit over and over again?
The song probably wasn't posted to be Walter's 'I Kissed a Girl', his 'Chocolate Rain' or his 'Pants on the Ground'.
As Christelle wrote, the net is another avenue. And there's going to be more hacks and wannabes there because there is no hiring process, no cover charge.
I don't think I'll see the demise of live music - it's just too unique, too intimate of an experience to disappear soon. And those who have travelled that path will always have a different, more difficult experience than a "bedroom bluesman", and that population, as a whole, will be more "pure" in the Blues.
I enjoy what the net has brought to us - I get to see and hear a lot of things I would't otherwise experience - but it will never replace a dark, boozy club.
I personally cannot buy into any of this "is you is or is you ain't a bluesman" stuff.
Does anybody really ever hear a live or canned blues tune and then stop look at the players bluesman credentials before deciding if they like it or not?
To me it is about performance and entertainment. If somebody plays and/or sings and I find it entertaining then that is the bottom line.
The original post started off as Walter complaining about real life people.
Now Walter is saying that it was just his lyrics...just his song...
Helix: I am better off just letting my songs talk. I wonder how many people even listened to the song? Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Hey Honkin, That 11 year old kid probably had the blues because he just halved his brother,and the wrong kid died.Did you ask him if he was smell-blind?
I read where you entered a video harmonica contest but you said you did not personally cast a vote for the other contestants.....did you listen to them?
You belong to forums where Christelle, Jay Guant and Brandon Bailey have been discussed at length and had video and audio examples and links posted...did you listen to their song?
