Way too distorted - and artificially distorted at that for my taste.
You play really well!! You don't need to hide behind so much effect. If you use your hands more and your synthesized effects less you can have much more variety in your tone. ---------- /Greg
Greg's right and too many players think that the more distortion, the better they sound. With the sound being so distorted and so heavily overcompressed, you lose dynamic touch, overall dynamics, tonal variety, and more and then everything gets badly muddled. The overly saturated distorition/compression is for th efolks that can't/won't take the time to properly hone their chops and try what they think is the easy way out to sounding more "professional," and all they suceed in doing is exposing themselves. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
thats Hakan, folks. love it or leave it, as long as ive seen his vids, thats how hes sounded... good job my foreign brother ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
I'm with you on this Tooka. That's the sound I'm after too. That's right up my street. Filthy dirty tone...sounds dangerous.
I love this Hakan keep it up.
Couple of questions ...you got a headshake type sound going on there but you don't seem to be shaking your head or the harp. Are you using your tongue to move sideways over the holes to acheive that sound?
Also where did you get that backing track? As soon as it started playing I had another song going through my head which I'd like to try and do.
It wasn't just good.... it was great.
Not all of us want to sound like Little Walter. I much prefer the sound of this and Dr Feelgood anyday.
I had to post it here, because I thought the backing track was so f***ing heavy, exactly what I wanted. I was experimenting with my Boss BR-1200CD digital recording studio and tried different presets for bass (standard 12 bar blues progression in Em) & drums and I found the right speed. And added extra bass on the drums just to make sure. Which was niiice.
I´m not an expert on sound but I thought a little more dirty harp sound would fit with this song. What I really would like to sound like is like Jason Ricci when he plays Baked Potato. Maybe next video...or maybe not.
Oisin (about headshake typ sound): I am mainly putting my tounge down on the harmonica and then up from the harp very fast. I move my tounge sideways sometimes but not very often.
Joe L/BBQ/Greg...you are probably right in all that you say but when I look at an internationally successful act like Dr Feelgood whose harp player was not technicaly the best in the world but who could get across a certain sound with a limited ability, it makes me wonder why I would want to speand years trying to sound like someone (like little Walter etc) whose sound I don't even particularly like and to me sounds dated. This is Modern Blues harmonica after all and although the old style is still a huge part of that and believe me I do highly respect your guys experience and opinions, it is also ok to not want to sound like that. I would imagine that Lee Brilleaux (Dr Feelgood harp player) would have played more concerts and earned more money than all of the members of this forum added together. Not bad for a boy from Canvey Island who couldn't play for shit!!
At the end of the day it's all about enjoying yourself and if you're sitting in a woodshed getting stressed out because you can't just get that Little Walter lick down to pat then perhaps your not getting as much enjoyment as you think.
I'm no expert on harp, I know the basics and can get by at a jam without embarassing myself but I do know how to enjoy myself!
Before you all go crazy at me please remember...this is just my opinion and I know that 95% of you will disagree and that's brilliant. I won't be losing any sleep over it!
@ Oisin. Don't feel you are alone I'm with you. There must be as many styles and tastes in harp as there are players. Wouldn't be any fun if we were all ploughing the same furrow.
Dr. Feelgood's tone is much cleaner. OK with me. It is a human produced tone. Not artificial. If you want to sound like Jason, Charlie, Kim, Rod, Paul, LW or any of a host of the most popular blues players - you simply can't get that by artificially producing that much distortion. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using effects, but this was totally monotonous across the entire song. Hendrix NEVER did THAT. It just sounds artificial. Effects should be used in service of musicianship, not to cover it up.
You can get a really nice warm "dirty" with a good mic, a good tube amp and good technique. Even though Jason uses a lot of pedals, most of them are OFF most of the time. His tone indeed comes from ...a good mic, a good tube amp and good technique. And when you do that you can VARY it, with your hands and technique too. To me that is much more interesting.
I can tell from watching the vid that Hakan has good playing technique, but his hands never move - he hasn't learned mic technique - or at least isn't showing it on this track. ---------- /Greg
I can't disagree with anything you say about technique Greg except that sometimes interesting is not the affect you're after.Totally monotonous might just be what's doing it for you.It certainly did it for me. That's not to say I don't appeceiate technically good playing and the use of hands and mic like you describe above but growing up listening to punk sometimes I like to hear a good old dirty sound like this now and again.Vive La Difference as they say.
@Oisin - You don't have to spend 15 minutes trying to play like anyone else. If one is going to play blues harmonica, (which at some point requires you to play Blues,) one will eventually be compared to the masters of the blues genre.
The moment one plays a {insert your favorite musician's name} song, someone is going to compare the player to {insert your favorite musician's name}. It doesn't matter who it is.
When I listen to the best practitioners of "modern blues harmonica", they all seem to have a solid grasp of traditional playing. Of course, I could be completely wrong.
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 6:44 PM
nice playing,very cool trills,I have to agree with the less distortion is better,for my taste,but i have played around and recorded with thrash metal settings for the hell of it befor,and you said you wanted a distorted sound so who am i to say,over all playing was nice.
Good stuff, Hakan. If Little Walter had listened to the naysayers, he certainly wouldn't have cranked up a small amp into the stratosphere to create the sounds of "Blue Midnight."
The great thing about this forum is that we're free to disagree, as long as we do it respectfully. I think that Greg Heumann and BBQ Bob are wrong on this one. I hate to keep pointing this out, but every tonal choice that a harmonica player makes is historically conditioned. "Taste," of the sort that GH invokes, is historically conditioned. Believe it or not, there are some people who think that the best possible amplified harmonica sound is created by old Astatic/Green Bullet mics plugged old vintage tube amps, or from contemporary versionings [sic] of that hardware, and that any variation from such hardware--and from the aesthetics that derive from such hardware--is an aesthetic failure. I beg to differ from that party line. Call me a modernist. I love my '72 Chevy truck to death, but there are some incredibly cool 2010 trucks, too.
Hakan realizes something that few players here seem to realize: Adorno was right. Negation has an important critical function when hegemony threatens--as, for example, when a particular kind of aesthetic orientation weighs heavily on a tradition, as the retro aesthetic weighs heavily on those who consider themselves serious players. In such circumstances, somebody who directly and consciously contradicts the prevailing aesthetic--as Hakan does here with his processed, highly compressed sound--plays an important role, and NOT as a Holy Fool who shows us what to avoid. He's opening up new possibilities. Hakan is a pro; he's no fool. When I listen to what he's doing, I recognize a nuanced aesthetic imagination at work. He's not just some mid-pack follower. (And I'm not suggesting that anybody here is a mid-pack follower. I'm simply suggesting that Hakan is offering us something that most of us might learn from.)
This isn't to say that the wisdom accumulated by BBQ Bob--about swing, for example--is useless and outdated. I find BBQ's wisdom about such things compelling, in fact. I'm not trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater. But I also know that Hakan is trying to do something new rather than work familiar territory. His deliberate choice of a slow-rolling groove, for example, cuts against the futuristic overcompression of his tonal range. To that extent, he's moving away from Sugar Blues's take on the modern sound, which would have us speed it way, way up.
Hakan, I think you need to recognize that when you share something new, not everybody will like it. And those who don't like it will insist that it is, in fact, not new, or thoughtful, or worthy. The way you play isn't the way I want to play, but I hear what you're trying for, and I like it.
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 8:12 PM
I'm loving this discussion! Joe L...I totally agree with you and when i play at my local jam I'm always playing blues..sometimes not quite as orthodox as some might like but still 99% blues. I know from past threads that there are members on the forum who love trad blues playing and aren't that keen on some other types of playing and that's great...as i say Vive La Difference.
However i've got to say that as well as introducing me to some beautiful traditional players that I had never heard before I have also been more excited with some of the more left-field players that various memebers have posted clips from on here.
Some examples;
Duster Bennett That crazy guy that Tooka posted (Shirley Shipxa?)He was great. That last Ska looping thing that Isaac did Lester Butler Son of Dave
Those are my kinda guys and that's why I love this forum so much. I don't think I've ever dissed anyone on the forum and I totally respect the fact that a lot of people probably don't like the music I've quoted above. And what a boring place this would be if we all agreed.
I'm not very experienced player (with any instrument), but I love to start to learn new things and instruments. Somehow those all seem to add to each others.
I just modified my Charvel model 4 guitar, which I used to play heavy rock/metal with, in to a slide guitar. I sometimes take vocal lessons from a guy who made a record with Champion Jack Dupree in the eighties and when I told him I was going to start to learn slide guitar he recommended that I should switch my guitar to telecaster or some other guitar that has better sound for slide. Some other people were also making the same recommendations. However, I thought about it and came to a conclusion that with the Charvel I will have lot more options to go as it has Floyd Rose, humbucker+two single coil mics and active electronics. It will certainly not look very bluesy but it might actually work better with the things I will be doing.
I think that we are all historically conditioned, like Adam wrote. The beauty of arts like music is that it can change far more rapidly than religion or science can. With music we don't have to build a wide consensus to get to something. It can be just a small underground scene and it is still enough, sometimes it will expand to mainstream and sometimes not. The important thing is that it is pleasurable for those who make it and to the audience. That's it. Of course things change if you want to become a pro in a sense that it's your only source of income, but then it's not just about music anymore but also about business.
I liked Hakan's sound and it's nice to hear fellow scandinavian musicians. I agree that the dynamics were lost on that vid, but sometimes that's good for the song. It's really cool to experiment all sorts of things. Actually I have been thinking about experimenting effects like Hakan has on some other vids, so that I might play in some metal bands that are very popular here in the northern Finland.
I certainly appreciate and enjoy hearing a harp with good tone, but as far as actually being rocked by the music, I'll go with Hakan's style and the effects his style calls for.
It's like... Andy Williams has the technically better and traditional voice, but no thanks. I'll take early Robert Plant.
You need to re-read the comments EV. You have made that assumption not me. As I said above I like traditional Harp playing too it's just that I like this kind of stuff more.
As I also said, I don't expect everyone to agree with me and am only expressing an opinion.
I know from past posts that Kingley likes his traditional Blues harp and from what I've heard from Greg and BBQ Bobs playing that is what they seem to favour too. Brilliant. You can't make some like something they don't.
All I was trying to say was that although Greg didn't happen to like Hakans sound, I did.
You're comment seems to assume that if you don't like something then you must like something else. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm with Adam on this one. What Hakan is doing is a completely different aesthetic and it is in a style of his own. Personally, it's not how i would choose to sound, but that's the point--it's how HE choses to sound and he carries it off extremely well. A fully realized original artistic statement. IMHO, going up to the high register for several measures saves the performance from the monotony that some are complaining about.
Whether I could sit through an entire set of music in that style is a different question, but I thoroughly enjoyed this tune. To my ear, it's much more interesting, more musical and certainly more original than the simple cliches that Dr. Feelgood is playing.
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2010 1:58 PM
I think you guys are missing the point here. Even I (an ethusiastic ametuer) recognise that Lee Brilleaux (Dr Feelgood harp player) is not the best harp player in the world. However his style fits perfectly with the type of music he's playing.High energy R+B. I agree totally that what Hakan's playing is much more "interesting" than Dr Feelgood, but then Dr Feelgood fans don't come to hear interesting harp playing. These guys were HUGE for a period of time in the seventies and 80s and although Lee is sadly no longer with us, Dr Feelgood are still playing and touring today with other band members.
The whole point I was trying to get across is that although you might not like a certain style of playing, there is a always someone who will and a type of music where that style will fit in, interesting or just cliched. And as I aslo pointed out above, that cliched playing probably earned Dr Feelgood more money than all the members of the forum earn together...so it can't be all wrong can it?
I liked the tune by Dr. Feelgood. But, clearly Dr. Feelgood's earnings were not because of Lee's virtuosity on harmonica. Yes, what was played fit the music well. But if the player actually knew what he was doing he could have played something that fit the music even better. I play high energy R&B all the time which, btw, I would not get the opportunity to do if i played no better than that.
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2010 2:52 PM
Hvyj..."But if the player actually knew what he was doing he could have played something that fit the music even better"
Then it wouldn't have been Dr Feelgood. That was the whole point. The fact that he didn't know how to play something better was part of the whole ethic of the band and why people loved them and still do. That is my point. Being a technically brilliant player does not guarantee comerical or even critical success.
Absoloutley nothing wrong with being a technically good player in fact it is something that I would imagine 99% of people strive for but the case of Dr Feelgood proves that it is not essential to be successful.
I certainly would never advocate to someone learning harp to follow this cliched path but if they chose not to it wouldn't be the end of the world.
I can tell this is pissing a few people off and that's not what I'm trying to do..just show that there are different ways to do things. It's the same with guitar playing. Some of the early punk bands couldn't play for shit but they sold thousands of records and were very successful.
Hakan this tune is yours Bro it's the way you wanted to play it,i couldn't see it being played any other way, just one mistake if you don't mind me picking you up on it you forgot to say FUCK!! YEH!! at the end:)
But being Trad i would love to see it played with out effects just Old school with those Dinosure tools Adam mentions,i could hear them in there and think it would convert well i love the Groove it's Nasty:)
Yo Adam Believe it or not,there are some people who think that the best possible amplified harmonica sound is created by old Astatic/Green Bullet mics plugged old vintage tube amps,
is there something wrong with this?
I can't hear anything new going on in this Fantastic peice of work all i hear is all Old School Technique,
Just because i'm Trad don't meen i'm Ignorant to new Musical influences in the Harmonica world,this for me is an untruth,
if i didn't like experimenting i would never have taken LSD in my youth and Listend to the likes of Jean Michal Jarre Sky Craft work Rick wakmen Mike Oldfeild Pink Floyd
You mods just better watch out that old stuck in the mud Trad sitting over there you think he ain't listening, cunning as a shit house rat he is waiting to hear something to prick up his ears, raises his head now and then,Hmmmm that sounded good he says to him self i will stick that one in my Quiver:)
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2010 3:09 PM
Good stuff Hakan! He's definitely not hiding behind anything he has his own sound no matter what amp he plays threw. That's the sound he was after here & it worked & sounded perfect if he was after a vintage little Walter sound maybe he would of taken out a vintage green bullet & amp instead. He's nobody's fool when it comes to playing Blues Harp he knows what he is doing
Nastyolddog, I am also more of a traditional school guy but I certainly enjoy a lot of things outside of that and do experiment and I don't subscribe to the JT30/GB mike and vintage amp as the only way to do anything either. Clean, dirty, whatever, but what I want to hear is that everything can be clearly articulated no matter what the attack may be and there are too many times some players have a setup that's too distorted to get a really well articulated and intonated note at all different breath and attack levels and that's the thing I was talking about. I think those who are dissing total old school vs modern are really missing that point. I'm not one to subscribe to the notion that you need gear to sound good. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
You don't need gear to sound good, but you need gear to achieve certain sounds. Same with guitar. Does an accoustic guitar sound good? Yep. But an electric is capable of more. Does a guitar with no effects sound good? Yep. But the horizons are greatly expanded with effects.
Barbeque and Greg, I totally dig what you guys are saying, and I honor and respect you for the treasure trove of info, experience, and generosity that you guys are.
I also get that y'all were contributing to Hakan and not dissing and that is an example of how great you are.
I also want to say that I dig dynamics, they are a big part of the tension and release that to me, is a big part of what I love about music, be it rock, blues, country, reggae, whatever. I love hearing the reeds still quiver after the note is blown.
I see this piece as another level of dynamics; full out.
That nasty, overdriven tone, combined with the restraint of that tempo, to me, is a very rock expression of the blues.
It could be a generational thing, something people about 45 or 50 and down can relate to.
For me, it is punk, it's plodding towards nihilistic destruction, restrained and dangerous, others may disagree and I hope they do, because a diversity of expression and emotion is music is sacred and necessary...
I don't think it is like Hakan has chosen this as his "sound". I don't think he is the type of musician who settles on a single sound, I think he likes to change it up and reinvent quite a bit like a musical chameleon, and I dig that.
There is just so much to do and so little time...
I love "old school", be it country blues, rockabilly, western swing, chicago style, whatever.
I also come from a generation, many of which were touched deeply by that nihilistic overdriven sound, relevant to the times we came from...
I am proud to say that I believe that the punk movement was the beginning of the destruction of the record industry, and also the beginning of a grass roots movement in music, indie labels etc...
I am reading a lot into this but that is the impact of this piece on this particular forum member.
---------- There is nowhere to go and nothing to find, only something to create.
People will play how they want to play and like who they like...there's no right/wrong sound & agreed talent/technical ability doesn't translate to sales/financial success.
But, getting back to the 2 clips posted:
Haken's clip has much more even order, crunchy, fuzzy, distortion, a sound like this might be great for a number or two, but soon becomes hard on the ear. It is the sound that people typically associate with "preamp" distortion (all preamps, even in tube amps are "single ended" & naturally richer in even order harmonics). It's not always easy to get a dirty, but rich, recorded tone without employing the output section if an amp, which will smooth out & compress under load, adding a more organic quality. It's probably better to record (if straight to a desk/mixer) on the cleaner side & see what you can add with regards to effects (drive, compression, EQ etc)?
The Feelgood clip shows Brilleaux playing straight into the PA, which is clean enough for him to be singing through. Quite a different deal & not particularly relevant to Hakan's clip.
Whether your musical roots are traditional or modern (I don't know where one ends & the other really starts...or what the relevance of the terms are, you still just suck & blow through a 150yr old design, overblowing was being done before I was old enough to walk, some so called "modern" players are old enough to have kids of voting age, some traditionalists are in their 20's - it's still 2010 for all of us), the idea is still to make music that is still listenable to, without it becoming an effort, or a chore to sit through a whole number.
That distortion Hakan is getting doesn't work for everything, but in the video he's posted, I like it. It reminds me a bit of some bad-ass George Thorogood back in the day. Gritty buzz saw guitar sounding, almost. And I love it when a harp can pull off a guitar sound - whether it be the effects applied, or the player's style and phrasing.
5F6H...again I agree with everything your saying except....the reason I posted the Dr Feelgood clip was nothing about trying to compare it to Hakan's clip, you're right it's not relevant in comparing it to the SOUND Hakan is getting, but it is relevant from the point of view that the sound that Brilleaux makes is relevant to the song. My point has got absolutely nothing to do with how someone gets their sound whether through a PA, through a valve amp or through a megaphone or whether they are employing "correct"(whatever that is) cupping style or what mic they are using ...it's what they do with the sound they're producing, what song they are inserting that into. This thread started with Hakan playing a highly distorted piece through a green bullent amp. Some people said they didn't like it, some people thought he should do it differently and some people like me and quite a few others loved it. What you might find a chore to listen to others might actually like. And in the case of Dr Feelgood (whom I sure some of the more traditional fans would find a chore to listen to) make a very successful living from it.
And thank goddness there will always be people with different tastes otherwise what a boring place this Forum would be.!!
@ Oisin - "What you might find a chore to listen to others might actually like. And in the case of Dr Feelgood (whom I sure some of the more traditional fans would find a chore to listen to) make a very successful living from it." That's the point, the Brilleaux stuff isn't a chore to listen to (you seem to confusing my points about the sound, with a perception of what my tastes might be...your pre conceived ideas are influencing your percption of what I'm saying). I'm not aiming to be rude about Hakan's clip, hopefully he will see at as constructive criticism (that's how it is meant). It's less a question of taste, as regards musical preference, more a question of sound quality. I don't doubt others like it, I'm not commenting on that, but it's way more distorted that ANY recording of harp I have ever heard released. Fine in small doses, but after a while it's not an easy sound to listen to. Any studio engineer worth his salt would pick up on this & query it with the performer...before continuing (possibly with the same sound IF that's specifically what the performer wants).
"My point has got absolutely nothing to do with how someone gets their sound whether through a PA, through a valve amp or through a megaphone or whether they are employing "correct"(whatever that is) cupping style or what mic they are using ...it's what they do with the sound they're producing, what song they are inserting that into." My point is, that when playing directly into a mixer/digital recorder, it is too easy to end up with that fuzzy, "wasp in a jam jar" tone (single ended SS distortion, digital recorders don't handle distortion well either)...it is very relevant to the gear being used. It's not the level of distortion that is necessarily the issue, but the harshness & lack of dynamics within it.
Compare it with say, Nine Below Zero, On The Road Again,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f--euFIRF_0
...a hot distorted sound but still sweet, still good to listen to, still "lively".
When the sound gets too compressed, you tend to lose the basic acoustic characteristics of the sound of the harmonica. Even when playing amplified, loud and raunchy, my personal taste is for all this raunchiness and 'in your face' drive to be sort of underlayed by the natural sound of the harmonica.As soon as that gets lost,I feel that you do the basic acoustic characteristics of this marvellous instrument an injustice. Just my humble, struggling amateur opinion. Bye, Ruurd
