I played at an acoustic music festival last weekend. Playing with about 7-8 folks at a time, one or two banjos, a few guitars and a upright bass player, etc...
The guys who were playing loved it, but the folks in the crowd could not hear me. Elcetric amping is strictly taboo with these folks. I'g going to play with them again in the fall and want to figure out how to get the volume up.
I tried using a glass, but that seemed only to make it sound different but no louder.
I'm thinking about gapping very wide and the blowing very hard.
Parhaps I need a taller comb? Bigger rise on the coverplates? Harps with longer reeds? I've worked very hard to get my sound where I want, but its not loud enough when these guys get going.
Though, it was kinda neat, everyone asking, "can you play louder?" Usually the other way around.
Was the singer using a p.a.? If so, it's fair game for you to play harp thru it, 'acoustically'. What good is it to play this way if no one can hear it? ---------- Todd L Greene. V.P.
Yes,I agree with Todd. I've been to bluegrass jams and there's no way to get as loud as those banjos and mandolins without some kind of amplification. You'll just end up blowing out reeds otherwise.
play higher harps and on the high end of the harp, that really cuts through. don't bother with cupping, play with your hand shaped more like a megaphone out toward the audience. play single notes not chords... if vocals are not mic'd you should easily be louder than the singers, but not as loud as a loud guitar or banjo probably. madolins are small but loud because they play higher notes that cut through the mix. if vocals are mic's then there is no reason not to play acoustically away from the mic (but don't cup it that would to too loud and the tone would not be right)
I play at an acoutic jam with resonator guitars that are quite louder. Open up the backs and play MB's, Seydels are not loud enough, LO's are softer too (opinion) ----------
The Original Downtown Philadelphia Fatman... Accept No substitutes!
To a certain degree, if you are in a situation with no mic, other than following Walterharp's good advice, you CAN play a little harder, but this comes with a price, as BBQ Bob will surely tell you-your harp's reeds' life will be shortened. ---------- Todd L Greene. V.P.
If I was in that position I would mount a small megaphone to a mic stand a go through that. They are easy to make. I made one once that had a custom sized opening on the narrow end that fit the whole harp. I would often swipe the orange cones that construction projects use and blow my harp through them in parking garages and stair ways. You can get a cool trumpet mute too when using small enough ones to cover with your hand. You will be amazed at how much more volume those things can add- and acoustically at that! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
you can retune your harps to A444 and that will help you cut. In general, resonance is going to be your problem more than anything else which is why I asked for a sound clip.
There are also techniques like presounding your notes before you play them.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
A step or two away from the band and towards the audience has worked for me when soloing with a 6 piece, no PA band (2 guitars, upright bass, snare, accordion / banjo).
(I think the step-forward / step-back thing for the soloist also helps draw attention to the soloist / lead vocalist / whoever is the focal point, and encourages listening out for that part.)
Another helpful thing for me - as walterharp mentions above - was playing higher in pitch / higher harps.
I also found I could cut through more if I puckered rather than TBed. Seems I can play louder and more trebly puckered (not always the best of ideas, but maybe useful on occasion?)
Of course, it helped enormously that I was lucky enough to have band members who were very good at dynamics and diverting attention onto my playing when appropriate...
xxx
---------- I'm running a FREE 90 minute blues harp workshop @ The Blues Kitchen, Camden, London (UK) on Saturday 17th April, 3pm | BYO diatonic in C | see www.theblueskitchen.com for more info...
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2010 9:34 AM
Just to add to Walter's megaphone suggestion, I've seen a fellow use a small cheap toy megaphone (battery operated), with the trigger taped on, with harp and sound really good.
remembering the funnel idea has got me excited to try it again. I am going to rig one up and do some recordings/video with it. I will post some when done. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Open up the backs and play loud. If that still doesn't work you could see if there is a diatonic similar to the Seydel Fanfare with a megaphone built in. If there is a definite front to the stage area, get closer to the crowd. Higher keys. Maybe they'd let you get away with one of those little strap on amps? If it's just an occasional thing you can always sacrifice a harp to the harmonica gods and just blow until it dies.
A glass wouldn't work. It doesn't shape the sound to come out louder. Maybe you could get one of those cheap plastic megaphone cones. I got one at a party store as part of a Halloween costume for a couple bucks. ---------- Nate Facebook
Gapping wider and playing harder is a totally losing proposition. It's learning how to breathe from your diaphragm and being very physically relaxed at ALL times because if any part of you is uptight, you completely kill your tone, volume and projection, and the very same thing applies to vocals as well.
Blowing harder is only gonna make you blow out harps at a much faster rate and you're gonna sound like total crap in the process and that's a BAD move you want to avoid.
Open backs will make harps play louder without a doubt, and that's one of the first things customizers all do. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2010 10:02 AM
I know this may sound overly simple, but make sure the back of the harp is pointed at the crowd. Down look down at the floor or up at the sky. It's pretty easy when you're used to playing amplified to forget that the noise is coming from the space at the back of your harp. Shape your hands like a megaphone. (I my plastic megaphone out. I'm just waiting to find someone willing to stand a distance away to see if that helps. I'm guessing an old metal one might work better, like the ones you see in old college football movies. Of course, you'd have to figure out tone issues, but I'd rather through 20 stupid ideas out there than miss throwing out one good one. ---------- Nate Facebook
If I have to play with relatively large unplugged band I use my Danelectro honeytone. It helps me sounds at trumpet or saxophone volume. ---------- http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
I'll post somehting new tonight, I'm at work right now. I have one of my old ones (two months ago) up. http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/557154.htm
I can't embed it here at work (youtube blocked), But will embed when I get home.
after the electrified jam, we do unplug everything for a late night, neighbor friendly acoustic set, all is unplugged but the vocal mic's. even with everything unplugged, the singer cant always be heard over the three guitars and congos... the singer and i HAVE to use the mic's or we just dont get heard...I pull away from it considerably... ---------- Kyzer's Travels
Creating all air pressure from the diaphragm, staying relaxed and keeping a large and open airway and oral resonance chamber are the key to good tone and VOLUME when volume is required.
And opening the backs of the covers will make a harp louder.
I couldn't manage to get enough wife free time to record last night, I will prob have time Monday night. This one was done all into a 545 with some foam over its head. Harp is off the mic about a half a foot.
Another vote for higher pitched harps. The high hard tenor voice associated with bluegrass and mountain music came about as a way to be heard over banjo's and mandolin's.
One other thing if you widen the gap is that if you do that and play really hard, you are gonna get winded REAAAAL quick, which defeats the purpose, plus if you're playing phrases that use tons of really fast breath shifts AKA going from blow to draw note and vice versa extremely fast, much like what Charlie McCoy does on his uptempo version of The Orange Blossom Special, you're gonna have an extremely tough go of it because the momentum alone is gonna physically beat the living crap out of you.
I had a discussion with a friend of mine who played tons of country and bluegrass harp, and many of the lines being played are fiddle oriented and required tons of ridiculously quick breath shifts and he said straight up, if he played that stuff even one tenth as hard as a lot of blues players do, he would be phsycially too wiped out to be able to do it and it would be the sloppiest mess in the world.
If you've got a PA, let the PA do the heavy lifting because killing yourself like that makes absolutely no sense at all. Your posture is definitely also gonna play a huge role here because bad posture also kills the resonating cavity inside you and constricts the air flow in a very negative way. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
How you gap depends on how you want the reeds to respond to your attack and style of play. I'm not sure i necessarily agree w/Bob about higher gaps making a player winded IF the player is using decent breath technique to begin with.
I mean, if the gaps are too wide, the harp is not going going to respond very well anyway. And if you have to play loud, that alone has potential to make you more winded no matter how the gaps are set. But it may actually be more difficult (and therefore require more effort) to play loud on a tightly gapped harp.
IMHO, the moral of the story is that less effort is required to play a harp that is properly gapped for YOUR particular style of play, whatever that may be.
Last Edited by on Apr 16, 2010 2:11 PM
