Hey Chris, I was just wondering something. I figured maybe others would find this cool to hear, also. We all know your influences are vast, including Indian musicians, throat singers, early and modern jazz, etc. But, I was wondering something I have never heard you speak about. Who, in your opinion, is the best BLUES harmonica player? I'm not talking modern, I'm talking about 1925-1960 or something like that. I'd be interested to hear who you think was the real top dog of the group.
Something along the lines of Rhythm Willie because of his more jazz influence perhaps? Who else...I'm not sure. The only other name that is coming to me is Deford Bailey for some reason.
Not so old (mid-70's?)and "happy blues", Chris made a great recommendation that is on my tops list: Mike Turk on 'Beans Taste Fine' with Papa John Kolstad ---------- Rob
Big Walter. For me, he defines blues harmonica. I'm not a little walter fan and honestly, I find his music to be arrogant. ---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
I'm not a little walter fan and honestly, I find his music to be arrogant.
I find his music to be bold with strong fruit characteristics and a slightly peppery finish with bold tannins. Suitable to listen to now but will develop with good cellaring.
I have a bootleg of a bunch of Little Water tunes that were never released. Have any of you heard that? He really comes across as an asshole in his music. This is all speculation, but I get the feeling from LWs music that he wasn't a nice guy and the energy I feel when I hear his music just puts me off.
There is a certain purity and beauty in Big Walter's music that I find very engaging. ---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Last Edited by on Apr 14, 2010 9:51 AM
Well, from Jimmy Rogers personally telling me, LW was actually an OK guy sober, but once he got into the drinking and drugs, especially in the later years, he could be anything but a nice guy. In the mid 50's, he was a much bigger star than Muddy was on Chess, but when Chuck Berry become much more popular, and LW's fame was waning because public taste was changing (as it always does), he took things really hard.
There are tons of people in the business that weren't always the nicest people in the world. The LW bio book probably gives the best overall insight into him of anything I've ever read.
BW was actually pretty shy, and not easy to get to know. I miss that crazy old man. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
eharp...I only thought about getting into the game, so I'll only think about sending you my money. ---------- I used to be young and foolish. Now I'm not so young.
I didn't play, but I would have say Big Walter. Maybe because when Buddha posted himself playing blues some weeks ago, it had a "BigWalterish" flavor.
On LW, I don't know if he was nice or rude, but his playing is really doing nothing to me. Mostly, I find he plays good, but I don't like his music at all. I couldn't really explain why.
It's really irrelevant as to whether LW was a nice guy or not. We're not discussing whether he was ever going to marry a sister of ours. Having met some of my heroes, some are great, personable guys, some are knockout on stage but as charismatic as a wet lettuce off it, some are just plain arseholes who happen to play music very well. Does it matter? Not a bit, if we are simply appreciating their music & performance...if we were their bank manager, employer, prospective father in law then we'd look with different eyes...and that's really beyond the scope of a harp based forum.
LW may have been arrogant, there are also tales of how insecure he was...the 2 often go hand in hand. But, just from listening to his contributions as a side man, I find it hard to perceive the arrogance in his music, he usually dovetailed perfectly with what was going on around him, evolving what he was doing bar, by bar. The guy played harp more fluently than most people I know can speak in their mother tongue. In 200+ recordings, listen to how little he repeats.
Big Walter, also a great player...other than them both sharing the same fore name (& nickname - Horton was also known as LW until Juke broke & Jacobs shot to prominence) there's not a lot of common ground. BW seems much more structured, milking every note...LW lighter, more flighty, "more in the moment". Not better, or worse, just different, I can see how either might be considered "the greatest".
This character analasys & assassination smacks of art world BS, "Oh yes, you can see the tortured soul in the strokes of the brush...". A load of old, revisionist Jackson Pollacks! Making the story fit the art.
Of course, Buddha is entitled to his preference & I am in no way suggesting that I have a problem with that. Just judge the man by his output...it's the only reason why we are aware of him in the first place.
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2010 8:03 AM
I do not like things that make me feel angry, or nervous or hollow. I don't care who likes who, I know what I like and what I don't like. I simply do not like the way I feel when I listen to his music. I feel the same way about Butterfield.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
I'm with you, Chris. Case in point-last weekend was French Quarter Fest here in New Orleans. I happened by a band that i know of while they were onstage, and the front man launched into a politally-driven speech over the microphone(the Repuplican convention was here at the same time). I can't STAND when politics are overtly paraded in music, or in this case, between songs, whether I agree with the politics or not. I was digging the funk they were laying down, up until the song break. I looked around, and many others left as well, shaking their heads in disgust. That's just a personal example, but sometimes how music affects us(or we LET it affect us) goes beyond the music itself and is a reflection on the musicians. It's hard, at least for me, to separate character from the music-once I've become aware of the character. ---------- Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2010 8:57 AM
Granted...but how much of that is what you, personally, are bringing to the table?
"I know what I like and what I don't like." - "Clean up squad! - Overused cliche in aisle 3!" That must make you a very selective human being, I for one, have absolutely no idea what I do & don't like! :-)
I'm not asking you to justify your preference, or your own reaction to music, that's pointless - it just seems a bit negative to attach & voice such connotations when your reaction is personal to you (irrespective of who does or doesn't share it).
I don't like aubergines...it's my issue, but I don't find them evil , dishonest, or provocative.
"does anybody really think that personality does not influence how music is played and how it sounds?" Of course it affects how we play, but can you REALLY tell from listening to someone play a harp, whether they are honest, arrogant, humurous, loyal, ticklish, defaulted on their last house repayment, what their favourite seafood is...?
Don't forget that, whenever they were in the studio, the guys who played on the Chess cuts were being employed to turn out a product, they were under a degree of pressure and outside factors (well, principally Leonard) will also have had an effect on what went down to tape on a given day. LW was noted as not being terribly keen to play plodding blues with Muddy, but still he did a bang up job.
Should we only like the music of people that we would feel comfortable inviting around our house for a latte & a night of Disney DVD animations? Of course not...the music is what we are interested in.
Sure, I've had experiences with individuals that has affected how I personally view them & their music...but it's not for me to influence a wider appreciation, I can just choose to skip it. If someone else take pleasure from it, hell, let them have their moment.
The guys under discussion are long dead, the option of self help groups is no longer open to them, they were who they were, products of their time & environment, nothing we, or they, can do about that now...much more has been written about LW than BW, but if you dug deep enough you'd find testimony that anyone can be an arsehole sometimes...perhaps, God forbid, even me! :-o
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2010 9:45 AM
As you all know, I almost never participate in blues harmonica threads. The case here is that I was specifically asked WHICH blues harmonica player I like. So I said so. I made mention of LW because many assumed my choice would be him because he's an innovator.
It's not that I like or dislike innovation, heck, I'm often regarded as an innovator myself, I stated the reasons why I don't like LW to demonstrate that my choice has nothing to do with innovation.
Speaking of innovation, you will find me listening to more classical music than anything else.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
it's madcat ruth and to a lesser extent, Sonny Terry and Mike Turk (beans taste fine only)
My main harmonica influences are Charlie McCoy, Howard Levy, Lee Oskar and Madcat Ruth
lesser influences are Mike Turk, Sonny Terry, Big Walter Horton
I could play harmonica before I ever listened to a pro harmonica player. I remember being 14yr old and have 11 bucks in my wallet. I was at the record store and bought Big Walter Horton with Carey Bell. I HATED IT. I remember buying it solely because there was a dude playing harmonica on the cover. I listened to a few seconds of each tune and then put the record away.
It was couple of months later that my dad came home with 14 Charlie McCoy albums. He said my grandfather used to like him. I thought charlie was great and learned nearly everything he had on those records.
From there I was heavily into country and blue grass music and started digging on Bela Fleck. I got Howard Levy's Harmonica Jazz Cassette and hated that too. It wasn't until I bought the first flecktones album that I started to like Howard's playing. Then I learned all of that stuff including the harmonica jazz material.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2010 10:34 AM
No, I know that now, EV...I had made a jump judgement when I heard some substantial wah effects...Horton was what I should have said. This means, for me, I need to listen to more Big Walter! ---------- Todd L Greene. V.P.
I have a little walter lp called blue and lonesome where little walter cusses out a fellow band member named billy at another point he cusses the producer because they cant seem to get a take lw says everything you do is all my fault
Billy Stepney was the target of Walter's criticism, I wouldn't assume that there was any particular malice behind it. These were guys that worked together. LW, Muddy, Leonard Chess (the producer), SBW2 are all recorded cussing each other/band members/themselves...When Leonard was hospitalised he received cards addressed to "Leonard, my favourite Mother". They lived & worked in a tough environment, it's to be expected.
Quotes.....Don't like Little Walter...or Butterfield...said last week that Jason Ricci was NOT a good improviser....not a blues fan.......Is this not Dirty-South Blues Harp Forum?
I myself (and I'm not saying this because I think my opinion matters and bestowing it on everyone lifts me to a higher plane of existence) am a true gut-bucket blues fan. Cotton, Muddy, Terry "Harmonica" Bean, Big Daddy Pattman, Jerry "Boogie" McCain (very under-rated by the way)....one chord dirty south blues rocks my world......"I wish I was a Catfish"
Wait a minute....I get it...with my preferences, I belong in the Uppity Classical, play me a tune in 14th position, Jazz harmonica club......and the members would crave my opinion on everything.
I don't think anyone 'craves' Chris's opinions on everything-but they are valued here, as are yours or anyone elses'. We all have a common thread in that we are students of the harmonica. We all don't view the way the instrument should be played the same, that's for sure, but we can all learn here, no matter how experienced we are or aren't, and from many folks-not just the 'pros'. Just because someone is a 'pro' or has played harp seemingly forever, doesn't make him the be-all, end-all in advice or opinions. Chris has a lot to offer in general, and some folks may hang on his every word, while others take some/all his opinions with a grain of salt. The same could be said for anyone here.
So sorry Todd if my attempt at humor offended you. I don't know Chris, but I have picked up much from his youtube videos. Watching his stuff encouraged me to learn position play. I played 4 breaks with 4 different harps on Stormy Monday at our local blues jam (did the 1/2 steps Chris). I am now starting to understand the value of positions, as I am learning a few non-blues songs for a local band. I don't agree with everything he says, but his opinions are usually interesting. I also respect and know very well that he is respected in harmonica circles. His stuff on youtube is among the best for harp students. He made me think outside the blues box, which I think has made me a better blues player. I will refrain from any more attempts to join the playful banter on this board.
"Saturday night is your big night. Everybody used to fry up fish and have one hell of a time. Find me playing till sunrise for 50 cents and a sandwich. And be glad of it. And they really liked the low-down blues."
You are welcome. I am humbled that someone of your stature responded to something I posted. I hope my compliments were not insulting. Wish I could ease your pain.
