phogi
366 posts
Mar 30, 2010
3:49 AM
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I keep avoiding going to the jam in town. Every time I go my ears ring louder than normal for a few days. That's WITH musician's earplugs in. Anybody else have this problem? I'm thinking about going to a bluegrass jam or something acoustic. I love the amped up sound, but it's just too loud. Way louder than a 100 piece band. This is really frustrating because I love to play with the guys there, and love playing blues music. I keep intending to go, then on the night of I seem to find an excuse not to go.
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toddlgreene
1112 posts
Mar 30, 2010
4:22 AM
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Tell someone, especially the bar owner, that you would probably frequent the jam there more if it weren't so loud. If he cares about his business, he will see it gets turned down. If the stage volume(i.e., guitar and bass amps)are REALLY loud, the p.a. is getting crept up to compensate. Speak up;the squeaky wheel gets the grease!
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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5F6H
43 posts
Mar 30, 2010
4:43 AM
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Get there early, look keen, network & try & get up early in the night, before every other player that has got up has edged up the volume controls. Talk to the houseband, explain that you'd like to do some quieter stuff at the start.
Then retire to the bar for the rest of the night, resplendent in your big, orange, industrial ear defenders (optional...the ear defenders that is, not retiring to the bar)! :-)
The ringing in the ears is a sign that you are suffering damage, take action now, before you find that the ringing is permanent and stops you sleeping/enjoying life! Tinnitus really is no joke. No one else is going to protect your hearing but you.
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XHarp
329 posts
Mar 30, 2010
5:47 AM
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The ringing in the ears is a sign of the start of something like tinitus, etc. and as you noted in your post, due to continuous exposure to loud noises.
Had the same thing start happenning to me about 5 years ago. I ignored it as a sign of anything and now I have had to give up the band and change to acoustic venues or softer music.
doc told me exactly this,
"you have lost 15 % in one ear and 20% in the other, could be because your getting older or it could be the loud music. If its age, not much you can do, if its the loud music you will eventually go deaf. Its your call."
I recommend that you find out why you get the ringing, then make your decision. Do it in an informed manner but in the end, its your call whether you keep ringing or move on to something else.
Lots of music to be made out there in all kind of manners.
I still turn it up occasionally, as per my funky junk submission, but its not too often and in short bursts.
Go acoustic and enjoy the tone.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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The Gloth
326 posts
Mar 30, 2010
6:24 AM
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A few years I was playing acoustically with two guitarists and had no problem, but when I joined two electric bands a few months ago, my ears started to hurt. I bought personalized ear-filters (for 100 €) and have no problem since then, even if the sound is very loud (one of my bands is VERY loud in rehearsing, probably because the guys are already half-deaf !).
Maybe your earplugs are not adapted and they let too many Db pass through.
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Randy G. Blues
174 posts
Mar 30, 2010
8:51 AM
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I bought a set of the "Hearos" musicians' earplugs from Musician's Friend (http://www.hearos.com). They work as advertised. As "The Gloth" mentioned, you can get custom earplugs made for musicians. These are molded to fit your ears, and they can come with with different attenuators to meet the situation.
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Bluzdude46
555 posts
Mar 30, 2010
8:56 AM
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Excuse Me? What was that you said?......Too Late for me I'm deaf as a post.
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The Original Downtown Philadelphia Fatman... Accept No substitutes!
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Helix
19 posts
Mar 30, 2010
9:13 AM
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Unfortunately the doctors can only test your ears and assess your hearing loss but cannot repair it or tell you exactly why it occurred.
Either due to overexposure or natural causes....one day that ringing that used to clear up the morning after a gig is now permanent and all day long every day.
You will miss the small sounds at first like being able to hear when the coffee starts to perk while in another room. It is worst when all is quiet such as early in the morning....permanent crickets in your ears.
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nacoran
1511 posts
Mar 30, 2010
9:23 AM
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Helix- I miss read your post. I scratched my head and wondered. I can see why they'd want to test your ears for hearing loss but I was wondering about the asses...
:)
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Nate
Facebook
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XHarp
330 posts
Mar 30, 2010
11:04 AM
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Doctors do test both.
A machine for the ears.
A finger for the 'assess'.
Something wrong with that but its a damn good thing they don't test the 'assess' and ears with the same finger.
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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
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congaron
738 posts
Mar 30, 2010
12:06 PM
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If it's always that loud, I'd just not go. Or maybe you could wear some 33 db earplugs under a set of shooting earmuffs for effect. Get a dozen people to go to the bar that way and you MIGHT make your point, but I doubt it.
That kind of volume SHOULD drive away business, but the owner still has to believe that or nothing will change.
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phogi
367 posts
Mar 30, 2010
2:36 PM
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I've always had a quiet ring, but this fall, when I started going to jams it got louder. I had my hearing checked, it is all within normal range, no hearing loss. But I bought those custom earplugs. They are custom molded to my ear. I wear the solid plug in it while listening. Reduces 30db. When I play, I put the 15 db plug in because I can't hear myself with a 30 db plug. I wear them to every show I go to , and for a while I wore them all day. Its a small bar. Stevie Ray's in Louisville.
I think I just need to stop going, or find another jam to go to. A shame, cause all the best guys in town come to this one.
I do like the idea of the shooting muffs...
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harmonicanick
703 posts
Mar 30, 2010
2:43 PM
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toddlegreene is right get the bar owner/manager on your side and get him/her to explain how his business is being effected.
We have noise monitors/limiters most places in the uk now for live music
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waltertore
328 posts
Mar 30, 2010
2:50 PM
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as long as there are volume knobs, there will be ringing in the ears! I don't go out to see live music anymore unless I am playing or I know who is. Even movie theaters blast the sound now. We live in loud volume culture. Loud surround sound tvs, booming car stereos...... If I can't converse in a normal level onstage, it is too loud.
Jams/open mics have always been notorious for being loud. Most guys that don't play for a living have more and better gear than most pros. They love to take it out and blast it at open jams. I knew one club owner in austin that wouldn't allow over a 15 watt amp in his club. That pissed off the pros who played the club. Guys like Chris Duarte use to play twin reverbs on 6 in the club and it only held 80 people!! I played guitar through an unmic'd champ and blew harp off the mic via the PA. My trio had to use that as the volume benchmark or they were immediately fired.
My point is the volume thing is out of the bag. It has been discovered that ear piercing volumes move alot of air and the feeling of power, like mashing the pedal on a muscle car, can be very addicting. It will always be there becasue of this factor and if you really want to control it, you will have to run your own band or start your own jam with strict rules. Most bar owners count the cash. If it is loud, quiet, or no music, whichever puts the most in, gets the gig rebooked.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2010 2:55 PM
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nacoran
1520 posts
Mar 30, 2010
3:45 PM
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Helix- Probably right. I suppose I've got my head up there enough that that's the fastest way to give me a hearing test! :)
Walter- What you need to do is get to their amps and repaint the numbers around the outside. Move everything a little counterclockwise, and add an 11 about where you think the volume should be. Tell the guitar players they are already playing as loud as a Spinal Tap concert and that the police will come if they turn it up any louder.
Your right though, it's an equipment arms race. Unfortunately, there is something about being able to feel the pulse of the music going through your body that is addictive. Some people are willing to bargain away their future hearing for it and when their hearing is gone they'll just try to get it turned up more so they can still hear it, which will create more people who can't hear who want the music turned up... and of course, no one can hear the words clearly in the back anyway...
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Nate
Facebook
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jawbone
298 posts
Mar 30, 2010
4:00 PM
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I have stopped going to a popular jam as well, mainly because it is painfully loud. One of the reasons I started my own band was the volume issue, but even there I am losing the battle.
I now wear ear plugs at rehearsal (boy, does the trumpet ever sound wonky when you have plugs in!!)
But I'm at the point of saying "I've said it over and over and over so I guess it's time for a new band"
I still can't understand why people, musicians and audience alike, equate volume with excitment.
I have a constant "million crickets on caffeine" thing goin' on and I don't want it to get worse.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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Kyzer Sosa
253 posts
Mar 30, 2010
8:59 PM
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we rock out in a garage and most of the boys dont turn any of their stuff up past 2. we keep on the verge of loud for two reasons, our ears, and the neighbors.
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Kyzer's Travels
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phogi
369 posts
Mar 31, 2010
3:56 AM
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You know what else I want? an amp that sounds awesome at low volume. My valve jr? WAY to loud unless I'm outside. My radio can sound awesome at low volume. Why is this not a priority?
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jbone
302 posts
Mar 31, 2010
4:21 AM
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walter is right, since the advent of affordable powerful amps, the volume has risen. every other player wants to go into a small club loaded for arena gigs.
to me this begins with the drummer usually. if the drummer keeps his stuff low, and the guitar(s) will stay low, things work better. unfortunately a lot of guitarists seem to like playing way over everything else on stage.
i got a bassman so i could keep up volume-wise in most circumstances, but truth is i'd rather go with a much smaller amp and not have to lug the 50 pounder around. it sounds great even at low volume- i can unplug the 2 top 10" speakers for smaller rooms and it still sounds great. and it's a good idea to have the capability for when i'm gigging with a louder band.
i have some percentage of hearing loss due to industrial settings before osha got on the stick and required ear protection, and from loud shows both on and off stage. these days if it's too loud, i won't hang around too close or too long. unless i'm getting paid. and a lot of times the stage volume seems ok but i hear from audience members that it's loud out front.
in the ideal world we'd all have 5 to 12 watt amps and small p.a.'s and the drummer would set the bar low. that doesn't happen very often.
all this is part of why i really dig no-amp street busking with one partner in a duo.
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GermanHarpist
1327 posts
Mar 31, 2010
4:26 AM
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"My radio can sound awesome at low volume. Why is this not a priority? " Very good point.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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7LimitJI
71 posts
Mar 31, 2010
5:39 AM
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"You know what else I want? an amp that sounds awesome at low volume. My valve jr? WAY to loud unless I'm outside. My radio can sound awesome at low volume. Why is this not a priority?"
They are available, 1w and less tube amps, but are expensive.
I've built a little approx 1w amp using a 12AX7 pre amp, 12Au phase inverter and a 6SN7 power tube in push-pull config.With a vintage 10" alnico speaker.
Have a listen to Southbay Beatdown on my Myspace linked below to hear what very quiet amp can sound like.
This recording was made at a volume you can talk over.
Blackheart make a 1w amp that quite cheap.The Killer Ant.
http://www.blackhearteng.com/bh1h.html
I've never heard one though.
The Torres tiny tone, or ZVEX Nano
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The Harpist formerly known as Doggycam
Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2010 5:50 AM
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waltertore
329 posts
Mar 31, 2010
6:37 AM
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I use a THD Hotplate. The guy that makes them is a friend of a friend. He insisted I get one because I was struggling keeping my deluxe reverb amp quiet enough to not ruin my 1 man band recordings. I was using the amp around 0-1 on volume to keep it from bleeding/dominating my recordings. I also couldn't get any tube distortion at that level. I don't use much, but to get the little I want, I need to run the amp around 2-3. That is way too loud for my 12'x12' studio. I bought the hotplate and it works just as advertised. I since have sold the deluxe and gone to a princeton. Still to run it around 3 is way to loud. I use the hotplate in small clubs as well. If you listen to my song "I'll never let you go" (song number 9 on the continous streaming link below, you will hear my guitar fairly distorted. I had the volume set on the princeton reverb to about 6 and the actual volume coming out of the speaker was as loud as you would whisper in church to your neighbor while the mass is going on. The hotplate allows you to get the tone you want at any volume you want. I also tried it with my harp going through the amp. Here is an expample of it with the volume at 10 and the hotplate set again to just above a whisper listening volume. You have to buy a good one. the THD Hotplate is around $200 I think. The cheaper ones sound cheap. There is no longer the age old excuse- I need to open the amp up to get my tone. Walter
Here is the song "amplified reed" with a shure 57 going into a princeton reverb. Like I said the volume was set to 10 but the actual volume coming out the speaker was at whisper volume. This was my first time playing amplified harp in over 30 years. I wanted to see if it was of any interest yet. I recorded the backing track myself. Walter
amplifided reed
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2010 6:52 AM
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