Philippe
5 posts
Mar 14, 2010
5:47 PM
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I'm a beginning player (seriously playing-if you can call it that- for about 3 months) and I'm wondering about bad habits. Are there any bad technique-related habits associated with harp playing, and if so how can they be avoided?
Thanks!
Philippe.
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congaron
668 posts
Mar 14, 2010
6:02 PM
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Using too much air. Try to play with as little as you can. Seriously, blowing and drawing too hard actually makes it harder to learn things. Lip pursing is not really a bad habit, just a way to play that works great for some things and less great for others. Trying to learn tongue blocking is one of the reasons I quit playing so many times until last year. Everybody is different regarding LP and TB, but using too much air as a beginner would be a bad habit.
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HarpNinja
270 posts
Mar 14, 2010
6:40 PM
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Breathing and posture. Don't play with poor posture and don't play with your chin on your chest.
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Mike Fugazzi
vocals/harmonica
MySpace
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Nastyolddog
424 posts
Mar 14, 2010
6:59 PM
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Trying to learn tongue blocking is one of the reasons I quit playing so many times
The Statment above speaks volumes for many Lip Pursers
they take the easy way out,
this tells me the person who trys TB and gives up and reverts back to Lip Purseing lacks true comitment
Last Edited by on Mar 14, 2010 6:59 PM
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congaron
669 posts
Mar 14, 2010
7:15 PM
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wrong. I have been playing over a year this time after learning the tilted harp, lip blocking technique. I can overblow holes 5 and six in a musical context (not just in practice) and play musically with my band in blues, rock and folk genres in 1st second and third positions. I practice diligently and lip blocking with the DVD from Dave barret demonstrating how to do it was the jump start i needed after nearly 40 years of losing interest due to tongue block bending making no sense to me as a beginner. I wanted to bend and sound bluesy. Tongue blocking didn't get me there. Lip pursing did. I am also learning to tongue block as I see fit.
Your opinion is your own, but i will never buy that an accepted playing technique qualifies as a bad habit for a beginner. "Reverting back to lip pursing"... implies it has no role in legitimate harmonica music. Sorry but I have to raise the BS flag on that.
Taking the easy way out? A sweeping generalization that may or may not apply to some players. I am not one of them. Many others are not either.
Last Edited by on Mar 14, 2010 7:18 PM
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gorignak
65 posts
Mar 14, 2010
7:52 PM
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don't breath through your nose while playing.
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Blueharper
87 posts
Mar 14, 2010
7:53 PM
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Why not do both when needed? I do.
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DanP
112 posts
Mar 14, 2010
8:00 PM
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Keep your nose closed as much as possible when playing. Any air that goes out your nose when playing is wasted. Keep your mouth relaxed. The more relaxed your embouchure is, the better your tone will be. Practice either standing up or in a straight back chair so you can sit up straight. Work on breath control or you may find yourself running out of air at bad times. Don't try to bend notes until you can get a good clear single note with no air going in to the neighboring holes. Don't play amplified until you have a good acoustic tone. If your playing with a singer, don't play when the singer is singing, except during breaks in the vocals. And last but not least, keep your harmonicas out of the reach of drunks.
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Nastyolddog
425 posts
Mar 14, 2010
8:18 PM
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Hi Philippe the reason i say learn to Toungue Block 1st is,
learning the easyer method of Lip Purseing 1st
is a mistake,?why
when it comes time to discover there are many things Tongue Blockers are unable to to with out haveing a free tongue of the comb,
it's harder to switch from Lip Purseing to Tongue Blocking,
than from Tongue Blocking to Lip Purseing
Conga man Raise that flag Bro i should not have implyed it as a bad habit
and lip Pursers are a bunch of losers with no commitment,
see i have switched from LP to TB i never bagged anybodys playing style,
and i have never felt so fucking beat up on from every Lip Purseing player who thinks ive done something bad
the Forum evokes this deeply,
i will admit i will be pulling out some of my old LP tricks to stick in my quiver,
so man you may guess im in a mood
if someone askes a question hay i only been playing 3 months my answer will allways be learn to tongue Block.
Last Edited by on Mar 14, 2010 8:37 PM
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gene
414 posts
Mar 14, 2010
9:41 PM
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Don't take the first "fancy" technique you learn (wah-wah, warble, hand effects, etc.) and use it ALL the time. Learn a few "fancy" techniques and spread them around in your playing.
Don't neglect dynamics. Flavor all your notes.
Don't neglect working on tone. Drop your jaw, sit up straight, etc.
Be careful who you discuss TB vs LP with.
Be careful of who you're talking to when you dis Bob Dylan.
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Philosofy
344 posts
Mar 14, 2010
9:43 PM
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Dan P, I have to disagree with you. Breathing through your nose while playing can be essential. If you're playing a lot of draw notes in a row, and have only one or two blow notes, you need to get rid of the excess air through your nose while playing those blow notes. The same works with too many blow notes. You have to be able to control your breath, and have the ability to breath in or out of your nose while having the right amount of air going through the harp.
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Kyzer Sosa
191 posts
Mar 14, 2010
9:46 PM
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I breathe thru my nose often when I play... whats wrong with that?
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Kyzer's Travels
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alleycatjoe
28 posts
Mar 14, 2010
10:56 PM
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I THINK IT MIGHT BE NICE TO START OUT TOUNG BLOCKING , BUT I DONT THINK THAT IS REALISTIC. I MEAN ITS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET A SINGLE NOTE IF YOUR TRYING TO TOUNG BLOCK AS A BEGINNER . I WOULD SAY DO LIP PURCING UNTIL YOU CAN NAVIGATE AROUND THE HARP WITH SINGLE NOTES THEN TRY TO TOUNG BLOCK . BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA WHERE THE HOLES THAT YOU HAVE TO COVER ARE. IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW ADVANCED YOU ARE ALREADY. ONE THING YOU SHOULD ALWAYS DO IS LISTEN TO YOURSELF AND WHEN YOU MAKE A MISTAKE REALLY TRY TO CORRECT IT BEFORE YOU MOVE ON. SLOW IT DOWN TILL YOU GET IT RIGHT AND DO AS MUCH LISTENING TO OTHER PLAYERS AS YOU CAN. GET THE SOUND YOU WANT IN YOUR HEAD.
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Oxharp
213 posts
Mar 14, 2010
11:07 PM
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Stay focused, practice very day with or without a harp to internalize riffs tunes in your head.
Always relax when you cant do something and try again.
There are no bad habits really just developments along the way.
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Oxharp
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Blown Out Reed
77 posts
Mar 14, 2010
11:23 PM
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harmonicanick
663 posts
Mar 15, 2010
2:11 AM
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A bad technique related habit would be to take any notice at all of sweeping generalities about LP & TB
Look at Gussow's lessons on you tube and find your own path, good luck!
'be careful who you are talking too when you diss Bob Dylan' lol
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 2:13 AM
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Tryharp
314 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:16 AM
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On the breathing thru the nose thing, I'm with Kyzer, I do it all the time. Is it a bad habit??
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phogi
343 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:21 AM
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When I started playing I could not even lip block. I had to U-block. If I had someone telling me "don't do it that way, you'll never learn" then I might have not kept on playing. Once I ran into U-block limitations, I had enough time invested that I thought it would be worth the effort, so I learned some basic tongue blocking (1st position, no bends).
Then I saw Adam's vids, and spent the time to lip purse. Now I can do all three when needed. I still have trouble with the whole step bend on the 2 hole on certain harps (when tongue blocking) and I'm not yet consistent with my TB overblows and blow bends. But it will come.
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Miles Dewar
451 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:21 AM
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Nastyolddog. You are seeming pretty damn ignorant.
Adam gussow is a lip purser. Have you reached the level of play he has? Jason Ricci?
Do YOU posess the drive and commitment that they DO?
Are they, "a bunch of losers with no commitment"
............
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 3:28 AM
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Andrew
921 posts
Mar 15, 2010
4:36 AM
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It's a bad habit to rely too much on people here giving you good advice. You can avoid it by using your brain and ears 90% of the time and listening to people here 10% of the time.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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captainbliss
1 post
Mar 15, 2010
4:44 AM
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Hi Philippe,
You ask whether there "any bad technique-related habits associated with harp playing, and if so how can they be avoided?"
Taking "technique" in its broadest sense...
1. As a beginner don't spend money on any gear other than decent (decent = stock Marine Bands, Special 20s, that kind of quality) harmonicas. Until you can actually play the thing, microphones, amplifiers, pedals, etc are a pointless distraction.
Spend that money on a teacher instead.
I can't emphasise this strongly enough.
Seriously.
Don't buy gear.
Hire a teacher.
2. Find out what technique you need to make the music you want to make. Ask your teacher (see #1 above), ask in forums, use the wealth of material on YouTube and so on...
For example... If you want to get a 50s Chicago sound you probably have to tongue block, and you can probably get away with no lip pursing at all. For a rockier, jazzier, maybe even more "modern" sound, you may never need to tongue block, but you might want overblows. Some acoustic harp styles are impossible without tongue-blocking, some sound great puckered.
3. Don't get hung up on and technique for technique's sake.
Try not to get sucked into the big-endian / little-endian (as you may have noticed) nonsense about lip-pursing, tongue-blocking, "authenticity," black music, white music... Entertaining, certainly, interesting, yes, but not always very helpful for someone trying to learn to play.
The point is to make music, no?
4. It's very important to focus on acoustic (i.e. no microphones, no amplifier) tone. Try to get the richest, fattest, nicest tone you can using (as has been mentioned earlier in this thread) as little air as possible.
Smiles,
CB
xxx
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 4:45 AM
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Nastyolddog
427 posts
Mar 15, 2010
4:47 AM
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Hi Miles Kissy Kissy lets see a big smile now:)
Nastyolddog.You are seeming pretty damn ignorant.
AT TIMES I WILL AGGREE YES..
Adam gussow is a lip purser. Have you reached the level of play he has? Jason Ricci?
WETHER IV'E REACHED A CERTAIN LEVAL OF PLAY BARES NO RELIVANCE TO WHAT I THINK.
FUCK I DIDN'T KNOW MILES,I WAS GOING TO BUY THERE ALBUMS,
IN FACT IM STILL GOING TO BUY ADAMS AND I JUST HEARD
JASONS RECENT CLIP POSTED ON THE FORUM I WILL BUY HIS ALLSO
Do YOU posess the drive and commitment that they DO?
YES,EVERY MAN HAS HIS OWN WILL OF COMMITMENT.
Are they, "a bunch of losers with no commitment
MILES I NEVER ONCE MENTIONED NAMES
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 5:02 AM
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hvyj
202 posts
Mar 15, 2010
5:37 AM
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Most common bad habit: playing with air from your lips and mouth. ALL air pressure should come from the diaphragm and, when playing, the mouth and jaw should be open and relaxed (sort of like in the position they are in when you yawn).
Anyone who claims a player MUST tongue block for good tone has psychological problems. TBing FORCES a player to do certain things that are necessary for good tone production, but those techniques can be employed when lip pursing for substantially equivalent tone. It just requires a conscious effort to do so.
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Philippe
6 posts
Mar 15, 2010
5:58 AM
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Thank you all for your responses! I need to work on most of the suggestions (many of which hadn't crossed my mind).
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hvyj
203 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:00 AM
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Lip muscles may need to tighten to firm up the embouchure to achieve certain blow bends.
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Jaybird
170 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:01 AM
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My advice is to spend less time in front of the computer, and more time in the woodshed.
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www.Youtube.com/Jaybird33066
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 6:02 AM
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Kingley
1015 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:10 AM
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Phillipe - Most of what has been mentioned already is good sound advice. The main things I would suggest are not to blow too hard and to relax.
In general you want to use no more breath force than when talking at normal volume. Also learn to relax your whole body when you play. These things combined will make your playing sound better and make your harps last longer.
Now to the issue of tongue blocking. I agree with people that you can play well using either tongue blocking or lip pursing. However some things can only be duplicated by tongue blocking.
I would advocate learning to tongue block at least some of the time, because without it you will miss a whole plethora of techniques from your musical vocabulary.
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Elwood
400 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:53 AM
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Captain Bliss is on the forum? Oh happy days - pay attention, folks. The Tesla of acoustic harp playing just stepped through the door.
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Murray. The smartist formerly known as Elwood.
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harpdude61
28 posts
Mar 15, 2010
7:03 AM
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hvyj....I disagree...Blowbends can be acheived without tensing the lips at all. Throat and tongue position change, but lip position stays the same.
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hvyj
204 posts
Mar 15, 2010
7:10 AM
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I agree for 8 & 9 holes, but can you drop the 10 hole blow a whole step w/o tightening your embouchure? I'm not referring to a change in lip POSITION, but, rather an increased muscle tension.
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harpdude61
29 posts
Mar 15, 2010
9:05 AM
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hvyj....On 10 blow I play with harp deep in mouth, with mouth open as wide as possible. When I bend down a whole step mouth closes somewhat but the lip position and lip relaxation stay the same. Not saying my way is best, just how it works for me.
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waltertore
270 posts
Mar 15, 2010
9:28 AM
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On a another angle- One thing a lot of beginners forget is the reason why they picked up the harp -to have fun! I read a lot of posts where beginners are so critical of themselves. People don't realize the beginning stages of learning are the most exciting in many ways. Much like a little kid, everything is new. Huge leaps and bounds are to be had regularly. Then, the longer one stays with it, the longer and longer it gets between new things and it is more of a polishing on the already discovered stuff. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 10:15 AM
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barbequebob
601 posts
Mar 15, 2010
9:42 AM
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Personally, saying which one is better is kinda bordering almost on sillyness. Personally, I recommend learning both methods because they both have different advantages. I've been able to fool TB's when I puckered and fool pucker players when I TB'd.
I've often changed from the TB to the picker very often in mid phrase and I personally know a great player who does this a lot and that's Kim Wilson.
The U-block I've never mastered and that's what Norton Buffalo used, and when he played a chromatic, he used this method to get very unusual chord voicings on a chromatic that cannot be achieved any other way.
The which one is better almost sounds like another reason for snobbery.
To do ANYTHING on a harmonica, your body HAS to be FULLY relaxed 24/7 or all you're doing is working against yourself and making everything you're doing 1,000 times more difficult than it needs to be and it only is good for getting into more bad playing habits.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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kingrobot
1 post
Mar 15, 2010
11:31 AM
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Make sure your mouth is clean before you play.
Food and pop will gum everything up.
Once it dries, there's a good chance you'll suck it right back up on a draw bend.
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congaron
673 posts
Mar 15, 2010
11:44 AM
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"if someone askes a question hay i only been playing 3 months my answer will allways be learn to tongue Block."
Fair enough. Seems like a good piece of advice to me.
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Chickenthief
26 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:07 PM
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I tried to post on this thread last night, had connection probs and gave up
thinking that surely someone else would tip Phillipe on the 2 and 3 hole
bend situation.
No sweat phillipe, just beware the fruvious bandersnatch, and the momraths, and the red queen, and the 2 and 3 hole bends. Find yourself
a cheshire cat versed in blue 3rds, or a chromatic tuner (Alice recommends the I phone ap) and you wont have to worry about practicing the wrong notes for 4 months. This actually happened to "a
friend I know".
Welcome to the other side.
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MrVerylongusername
978 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:24 PM
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My 2p
1. learn to distinguish the difference between opinion, speculation and fact. Opinions are like arseholes: everyone has one and there are plenty on this forum - present company included ;-)
2. Learning to adjust your harps is useful, but any harp can be played out of the box. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the reason you haven't been able to bend a certain hole is the harp's fault.
3. Everyone has it wrong - U-block is the dog's doodahs, TBers and LPers are just jealous that they can't do it. ;-)
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congaron
674 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:29 PM
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lol
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nacoran
1419 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:05 PM
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Switch back and forth between tongue blocking and lip pursing, they are both useful and if you get to far along in one without developing the other you'll develop opinions based on the difference in your skill at playing one way or the other instead of based on the real strengths of the styles.
Get a couple cheap harps and open them up. Learn how to fix gapping and jammed reeds. If you find you enjoy that sort of stuff you can graduate to embossing and tuning.
Spend some time learning songs but spend some time just making stuff up. Both are useful skills you'll need later on.
Try to rinse your mouth before you play if you've been eating or drinking anything but water. It will save a lot of cleaning later.
Memorize the circle of fifths. Then learn key signatures. A little theory can go a long way.
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Nate
Facebook
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MagicPauley57
75 posts
Mar 15, 2010
7:06 PM
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some great points here and some not , circular breathing , learn it otherwise you'll be falling over backwards and gone purple , learn all the techniques but also learn how the harmonica fits in with other musical insrtuments ( phrasing and timing) a friend of mine who was learning blues guitar , while he thought he was great playing along to a song in his bedroom , when put in a band situation , he was totally lost!
most of all
don't get into pointless rows about whether this is better than that etc
don't run before you can walk , take your time and enjoy it and you willl get much more out .
most importantly , use your EARS!!!
best of luck
Paul
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 7:07 PM
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nacoran
1421 posts
Mar 15, 2010
8:13 PM
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Oh, and Jaybird, remember, multi-task. You can be in front of the computer and playing harp at the same time. If you want to type too there is always a harp rack.
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Nate
Facebook
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captainbliss
2 posts
Mar 16, 2010
4:23 AM
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@Philippe: a pleasure. Enjoy the journey...
@Elwood: Tesla? Destined to die in debt, alone and in a hotel room? Hmmm...
xxx
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Jaybird
171 posts
Mar 16, 2010
5:55 AM
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Real progress and learning to properly play the harmonica occur during concentrated study in the woodshed.
Yes, you can have fun playing the harmonica while sitting in front of the computer or driving your car.
But, anyone who thinks they can seriously advance their playing skills while driving or surfing the web, is just kidding themselves. And that includes you, Nacoran.
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2010 6:04 AM
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GermanHarpist
1280 posts
Mar 16, 2010
7:21 AM
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I'm with nacoran on this one... There's some stuff that I can't practice while occupied, but there are a surprising amount of things that I can practice while watching a movie, reading posts.. mindles things like scales, vibrato, tongue-blocking techniques that should work absent mindedly anyway (if you understand what I mean..).
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!
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nacoran
1423 posts
Mar 16, 2010
9:34 AM
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That seemed unwarrantedly mean spirited. I wasn't suggesting you do all your practicing in front of the computer, although a computer chairs as good a place as any. You've got Adam's lessons, access to all sorts of other learning materials, access to your media player,...
No oncoming traffic (just kidding, I'll leave that alone since I'm not going to change any minds on that.)
Have a nice day everyone. And that includes you Jaybird.
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Nate
Facebook
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congaron
682 posts
Mar 16, 2010
10:32 AM
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I just drove home from the dentist after a root canal and played my d harpmaster all the way home. I advanced my level of being able to play without feeling one side of my mouth...lol. I figured out how to get single notes, bend, even do some of my favorite licks. I don't know when this new skill will come in handy, but I can guarantee you it took a few minutes to figure it out and some things are still not doable. So, I learned something new on the harmonica that required concentration while driving. My mouth is still numb...I want some coffee, probably not the best idea.
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Andrew
922 posts
Mar 16, 2010
10:58 AM
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My mother once ate a chicken and avocado sandwich after a local anaesthetic. Can you guess the rest?
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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Miles Dewar
454 posts
Mar 16, 2010
4:19 PM
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"lip Pursers are a bunch of losers with no commitment"
Lots of people fall into that category
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