Tom585
120 posts
Mar 02, 2020
8:04 PM
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I know that air escapes around the sides of the reeds because the reeds are attached to the reedplate above the slot. That results in less volume. To counter that, we can reshape the reed so it sits lower in the slot and apply nail polish to the reedplate at the base of the reed to raise the reedplate up to where the reed is.
To eliminate the need for these alterations, couldn't the attachment area of the reedplates be designed to be lower so the reeds could be attached a little lower and eliminate air leaking out the sides? I presume this hasn't been done because it weakens the reedplate, adds expense,isn't that important, or maybe it would affect the sound negatively. I just envision little indents on the reedplates.
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the_happy_honker
315 posts
Mar 03, 2020
10:38 AM
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It's not so much the height of the reedplate that is important, rather it is the narrowness of the gap between the reedplate edge and the reed that determines leakiness. A kind of berm around the base of the reed will not in itself adress that issue.
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nacoran
10233 posts
Mar 03, 2020
11:09 AM
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Tom585, I've thought about that too. I It would be a different machining process needed than what you cut the reed slots with. I sort of wondered if anyone had tried it in the custom world. A machined dip where the reed attaches could also, if cut to really high tolerances, could also prevent reed misalignment issues. I know if the reed is completely in the slot it chokes, so you wouldn't want it full depth. It would be very fine machining, and then who knows what the effect would be on tone.
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florida-trader
1497 posts
Mar 03, 2020
11:24 AM
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I have done this and it does yield positive results. It is a lot of work though. You have to remove the reeds, mill out a cavity large enough for the reed pad and then re-mount the reeds. I used a small end mill in my drill press and set the depth. That is less than idea, but for experimenting or making a prototype it is fine. I have spoken with my machinist about doing this with his high end equipment but so far I haven't pursued it that forcefully. We both have so many projects in the works that it is hard to fit another one into our work load. The other issue when you do something like this on a commercial level is in order to make it worth your while, you have to do a lot of "pieces". I cannot justify asking my machinist to make the design just to make a couple sets of plates. There is too much time involved. He would be compelled to charge me for the design and then machine time. Generally speaking, I am very blessed in that my machinist usually does not charge me for his design work when make a new product because he knows that I will make hundreds of them and he recoups his investment of time through sale of the parts. So, let's say that I decide to do a large quantity of harps. Now I have to disassemble 50 or 100 harps, keep all the reeds straight. Then have my machinies cut the cavities - which would be child's play for him. then I would have to reattach all the reeds. Time consuming and expensive. Sooner or later you will bump up against a price ceiling as to how much people will pay for a custom harp. It would have to produce a dramatic difference to justify the additional expense. So far, in my experiments, where it makes the most difference is on overdraws. The overdraws are definitely easier when the reed pad is slightly below the surface of the reed plate.
Just my two cents.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Last Edited by florida-trader on Mar 03, 2020 11:29 AM
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Tom585
121 posts
Mar 03, 2020
9:14 PM
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Tom, that is what I suspected. A lot of work for a small return. What would it take for the large companies to include this in the manufacturing process for reedplates on, say, a particular model that sells in large quantities?
Last Edited by Tom585 on Mar 04, 2020 8:08 PM
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florida-trader
1498 posts
Mar 04, 2020
7:42 AM
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"what would it take for the large companies to include this in the manufacturing process"?
It would take a lot of work - which is why they don't do it. Not saying that the harmonica manufacturers are lazy or don't care about quality. I'm just saying that there is a limit to what they can do. They have to keep thier costs down so they can make a profit. Guys are already complaining about the cost of harmonicas. If the manufacturers did some of the tings that customizers do, it would slow down production and raise costs dramatically.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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dougharps
2080 posts
Mar 04, 2020
8:15 AM
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The rule of diminishing returns applies to this modification.
There are ways to optimize performance of an instrument or anything, but there is a point at which the gains are so small that they don't warrant the effort or expense. Even with the lower set reed pad you would need a gap to activate the reed. The gap would leak...
Each player has a different attack, technique, etc. I don't believe that the extreme alteration would be worthwhile with a production harp.
Already all the vendors leave a reed gap significantly bigger in OOTB harps than what I prefer. I have to adjust all new harps to meet my preferences.
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Doug S.
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florida-trader
1499 posts
Mar 04, 2020
10:42 AM
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Pareto's Law, also known as "The 80/20 Rule" says that 80% of the benefits will come from 20% of the activity. Just as it behooves the manufacturers to control their costs, the same thing applies to customizers. We are, in a sense, one-man factories. We have to be productive. The amount of time we can justify investing in a custom harp is dictated by how much we charge for it. There are exceptions where sometimes a stubborn harp will take a little longer to build, but basic business principles demand that we budget our time. The 80/20 Rule applies to us too. There is a big difference between building a harp for a customer who plays traditional Chicago Blues, sans overblow, and customer who plays chromatically via the use of OB/OD. A traditonal blues player would not like OB/OD harp. It is too tight for him. So why spend the time setting up a harp that doesn't fit the customer's needs Likewise, an OB/OD player would be satisfied with a tradtional blues harp setup. Too much work to OB & OD. The point is, we don't do everything we know how to do, or CAN do, to every harp. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Fortunately, this practice also serves the customer.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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Tom585
122 posts
Mar 04, 2020
8:07 PM
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All of that makes sense. It is what I suspected. Thanks for all of the insight. I've become a lot more interested in how harps are made and I get great information from all of you.
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jbone
3147 posts
Mar 04, 2020
11:02 PM
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I mostly just play OOTB harps. Sure it would be nice to spend the dough for some nice customs but my wallet is too thin. But with a bit of gapping and keeping things clean I have had a lot of years of rewarding play with no special tweaks. Wife and I rehearse 3 to 5 times a week and gig maybe 12 to 20 times a year including street and farmers market stuff. I put my harps to use often then, and if I treat them like the great instruments they are they give me a good return.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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