StalwartJohnson
54 posts
Mar 01, 2020
5:39 PM
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I’m currently working on being able to tongue block single notes across the entire harmonica. For the last 5 years or so I’ve played lip pursed holes 1-3 and tongue blocked 4-10. It has always felt natural to put my tongue on the harp after the 3 hole. Sans times when I attack a fast run that spans the gap, I would lip purse the whole lick. I got quite fluent using this approach. But of course the more I advance, the more I need that thick slap of a tongue blocked single note in that low register. It is time.
I’d like to poll the brain trust here about the hole 1 and 2 relationship. Do you essentially lip purse hole 1? Or do you tongue switch? Or do you keep your tongue/embouchure in the same position that you might have for hole 2 and up (essentially blocking holes that don’t exist on the end of the harp)? Or is it all of the above depending?
Thanks in advance.
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SuperBee
6522 posts
Mar 01, 2020
7:03 PM
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Effectively I lip purse the 1 and move back and forth between 1 and 2 by slapping my tongue on for the 2 and lifting for the 1.
I’ve tried the ghost block but I just never felt right with it.
Mark Hummel told me to switch to the other side to move between 1 and 2.
I should have questioned him more about that, because I don’t understand why he told me to do that. I’m sure he had something in mind but I didn’t see how it could ever be quicker to move between 1 and 2 that way.
Between 1 and 4 though, I do switch. I haven’t worked on playing out the left side beyond that but I know it’s quite feasible and potentially useful.
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nacoran
10232 posts
Mar 01, 2020
9:34 PM
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I mostly am a purser, but I don't have any problem TB'ing on the low holes. I use it for TB octaves a lote, and particularly like using the 1 hole as a pedal tone. The intro to one of my songs starts with a pedal on the 1 and the melody on the 3 and 4.
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The Iceman
4036 posts
Mar 02, 2020
12:52 PM
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Initially, Jerry Portnoy taught to single note holes 1 - 3 with a simulated TB sound and TB 4 up...I believe he has changed his position on this over the years.
I'll leave my tongue on the harmonica for TB for ALL the holes when playing in that style.
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The Iceman
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Spderyak
326 posts
Mar 02, 2020
1:12 PM
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I tongue block on the opposite side for the lower notes.
So that is blocking the notes on the right and play the note on the left.
When I'm higher up on the harp often around the 6 hole I switch my tongue to the other side.
So I am never off the harp so to speak.
but
recently I have been increasing my lip pursing abilities so yes often more than one technique during a song, I would have to say.
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SuperBee
6525 posts
Mar 02, 2020
1:21 PM
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As I understand, Jerry currently advocates TB 4-10, and changing to non-TB for 1-3, with a transition around the 4. This has been the case for over 10 years.
I raised the question with Dave Barrett about 10 years ago, when David was teaching to TB the entire harp including all bends.
Jim Conway (not James) had drawn my attention to Jerry’s approach when advising me to not pursue my recent discovery that I could bend draw 3 while tongue blocking 1 and 2. Jim told me this was a blind alley and referred me to Jerry.
Accordingly, I was surprised to find David promoting the approach to playing this way, and quickly embraced it. I questioned David about the difference in his advice and Jerry’s. David, ever diplomatic, told me he didn’t know but would find out.
Later, David contacted me to say he’d asked Jerry about it, and that Jerry told him that he used to block the entire length of the harp including all bends, but he found he had developed an asymmetrical embouchure, which he didn’t like, so he adopted his current approach.
I really am not much wiser for that explanation but I suppose it means he thought it was creating limitations and was not necessary.
Dennis Gruenling is on record saying he plays by blocking the entire harp, apart from hole 1 on which he effectively is lipping, and iirc he sometimes lips the 10, and also lips when it’s called for by particular situation.
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StalwartJohnson
55 posts
Mar 05, 2020
6:59 PM
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Thanks for sharing. It appears that I’m landing in the tongue off the harp while playing hole 1 club. Dexterity is improving and no problems bending (which was my biggest fear). Also just loving new/different rhythmic opportunities that come with the territory.
About playing hole 1 tongue switched (using the left side of my mouth). That is proving to be tough. Absolutely seems like a worthwhile technique though.
I'm sure it will come with time but any insights are welcome!
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Littoral
1726 posts
Mar 06, 2020
4:16 AM
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I don't see any benefit to TB 1.
I do prefer the tone of TB bends so I usually use them although I think I LP more when I've been drinking ??
Last Edited by Littoral on Mar 06, 2020 4:16 AM
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WinslowYerxa
1671 posts
Mar 06, 2020
10:05 AM
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I use all three approaches, depending on context, as all three can yield benefits. I don't see any reason to impose arbitrary limits.
Re getting used to playing out of the left side: The more you do it, the more it will seem easy and natural. Try playing all your usual stuff - licks, riffs, scales, even slaps and other TB effects, while playing out of the left side.
I sometimes play out of the left side farther up the harp, to allow for a quick leap or back-and-forth set of switches, or to bleed in a split with a higher note.
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Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Mar 06, 2020 10:06 AM
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StalwartJohnson
56 posts
Mar 06, 2020
8:44 PM
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Thanks Win. Playing usual stuff is what I'm doing to lock in tongue blocking in general. Didn't occur to me to just play everything switched as an exercise. Always more fun learning something new if things are familiar and musical. Perfect.
I might as well keep the TB questions coming since this is happening real time for me: Double stops? I've always puckered them but I'm digging the tone when I cover 4 holes and block 2. Also, I've covered 5 holes and blocked 3 for the double stop. 1-5 for example, blocking 123 and wailing on the 45. Then again I can just pucker the 45 too. It all sounds pretty cool.
What do you do? All of the above?
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SuperBee
6533 posts
Mar 07, 2020
12:05 AM
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How are your splits? Split exercises are good for finding your way around. If you’re good with splits and going from 2 to 3 you probably have a good sense of how much harp you’re covering already.
A couple of exercises for those trying to get to grips with splits;
Dave Barrett teaches exhaling 1-4 (ie blocking 2 and 3). Get that happening cleanly however you do, then shift the tongue slightly left to block 1 in addition to 2 and 3. Is it a shift or does it involve pushing out a little more at the same time? It’s not a lot of movement and it’s a light touch. Then back to the 1-4, followed by the movement to the right, blocking 234 and playing only 1, then back to 1-4
Shift to inhale, repeat the exercise, shift to 2-5 exhale and repeat the exercise. Now you have the extra challenge of finding a clean hole 2 without getting the 1 into it.
Repeat on the exhale 2-5, shift to exhale 3-6, repeat, then work back down in order to 1-4 exhale.
That’s it. This teaches where the holes are, how much tongue is needed, how much lip coverage, how much tongue movement required.
Dave reckons daily repeats of that will have you well clued in on split octaves after a few weeks. I did it, and I do believe it was very beneficial.
Exercise 2 is quite simple. It’s just exhale octaves, 2 up, 1 back, low to high, and back.
Exercise 3 is also simple but challenging. It’s alternated blow and draw octave splits.
I know 2-5 inhale is not an octave but it’s part of the exercise nonetheless. Navigation around the 6 inhale is educational, and the area above 6 inhale requires alternating between covering 3 holes on the inward breath and covering 2 holes when exhaling. I found it easier to get going with this by starting at the top and working lower.
This 3rd exercise is pretty obvious I suppose but I’ll drop Mark Hummel’s name here as the person who encouraged me to do it.
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mr_so&so
1089 posts
Mar 07, 2020
9:44 PM
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SJ, I'm in the all-TB, and tongue-switch the 1-hole camp. I concede that it may be a little slower to switch and it took me a long time for it to feel natural. I've found I can bend fine while switched. Just my preference.
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Chris Sachitano
38 posts
Mar 09, 2020
4:48 PM
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I used to give myself a rule that I TB'ed past hole 2 only, out of the right side of mouth. Then I delved into alternate tunings, and the switching from left to right gave me some unique sounds I liked, so I quit thinking about which hole, left, or right, etc. I just tried TBing it all, especially from the front (or more centered).
So now my rule is to keep the tongue down for most everything, and once I have a pattern/lick/passage down that I like, I vary the embouchure as part of the exercise.
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