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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Bands
Bands
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SuperBee
6090 posts
Jul 26, 2019
7:36 PM
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I feel like talking about various aspects of band-life, but maybe I just feel like expunging the swirl of overthinking I’m doing on the topic.
I’m just realising that there’s a fair bit to fronting and “leading” a band which isn’t about playing an instrument.
In an amateur band, maybe it’s even harder than a pro band in some ways. Trying to make a living and fit a band in around that, as a ‘hobby’, is a pretty full-on trip I think.
Bands need leadership though. Someone has to score gigs, publicise, coordinate, make lists, book rehearsals, and listen to what’s going on and work out what needs to change and whether the band can deliver, and negotiate egos. Maybe if you’re a pro band leader, paying the bills, you can just hire and fire, but as an amateur it’s often not quite like that. Maybe you’re in a smaller place and everyone is local and you just have to try to get along with the people who’re available.
Then there’s the problem of fronting; just because a person can play and sing doesn’t mean they automatically have great presence on the stage. That’s a thing to work on I suppose.
Of all those things; admin, MCing, and music arrangements and people management, I’m not sure which is the trickiest.
Admin can be allocated to others perhaps. You can try at least.
Musical questions might be best workshopped but someone still has to make a call. And sometimes maybe what’s needed is more skill which is a call for commitment or personnel change.
MCing is probably the most confronting for me. I used to be mouthy but also stupid. Not sure if I can learn to have a more charismatic engaging personality without making myself sick. So I just keep holding my unpleasant personality back.
Managing people is probably the least good thing. I try to just stay real but sometimes it’s hard to know whether I’m dreaming. I’m lucky at the moment to have a pretty good group but that’s such a fragile thing. I think a good bandleader needs a very cool head and to be pretty direct.
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indigo
569 posts
Jul 26, 2019
11:03 PM
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First band i was ever in in was a (enjoyable) shambles.All of us early twenties in love with the blues and very fond of the local greenery.
Ended up falling to pieces but what a great time we all had.
Second band was much more professional in its approach
even rehearsing! But slowly fell apart through members disagreeing about song choices etc and no one really in charge.Shambles too but not in a good way.
Then i ended up in a band where one guy was the BOSS.
He did the vocals and M'Cing,Gig booking,sacked people who weren't up to scratch and formed us into a tight unit.
I am sure a lot of us have been through similar circumstances.
I suppose it comes down to what one wants out of playing in a band,fame,money or just a chance to strut around on a stage.
Me,well none of that will never happen now but i look at my time in bands as some of the best times i ever had.
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jbone
2975 posts
Jul 27, 2019
1:44 AM
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I was truly a babe in the woods early on. Invited into a couple of outfits and back then as a sideman. Once I found my voice things changed some but I've never been the kind of leader who can pull off a band. Even co-leading is a pitfall for me.
First band I founded with someone, he quit within a couple of months which forced me to take up vocals. But the other guitarist and I co-managed. 2 of the guys I hired in later took over somehow and I was the one who left.
You are right Bee, music skills are only a beginning. I think the best thing that has happened in my music life has been forming a duo with my wife and staying with it. Much less complicated! We both go in and book places, we both write and arrange, the money comes home, we know who's going to show up every tine out. I do the roadie and soundman stuff and she does the rhythm guitar and splits singing with me. She lays down the groove so I can soar on harp and vocals. We do some duet stuff.
One CD we did we brought in a percussion guy and a bassist. I had hoped we might go to a 4 piece format but it was just too complicated since we were about to get out on the road and do our thing. So duo it is!
I like a band format but it was not something I could manage. The duo works so I'm not going to try to fix it.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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The Iceman
3889 posts
Jul 27, 2019
4:33 AM
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My experience as a Professional Musician, circa 1973 - 1990...
1. "Democratic Band Leadership" NEVER works. Need strong focal point. Only 1 chef in the kitchen.
2. Three factors are a) bookkeeping/booking/mgt skills, b) music arranging skills c) competency on your instrument.
I was lucky enough to develop all 3 skills. Not everyone can pull it off - most have 2 of the 3 skills.
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The Iceman
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jbone
2976 posts
Jul 27, 2019
7:13 AM
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Good points Ice. I was pretty good on harp back then. And improved a lot in intervening decades. I'm an extrovert/salesman kind of personality too. Good at talking to owners/managers. But managing people ie band mates is not a strong suit.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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barbequebob
3601 posts
Jul 27, 2019
8:25 AM
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From my own experience, Iceman has it totally NAILED!!!! There can be 2 different bandleaders fi the responsibilities are properly broken up into two main things only and that's one takes care of the musical side of things and the other takes care of the business side of things and music isn't just an art form, it's also a business as well and often times bad musical decisions like hiring musicians with lousy time isn't just bad on a musical level, but on a business level, it makes it very difficult to build a good following and without that, there will be a huge lack of gigs and a real pro situation is FAR DIFFERENT than trolling open jams because the stakes are 100% higher and what may be passable in an open jam can be death blow to a band in the REAL world of gigging.
If the bandleader, like in most bands, is also doing both music and business, just on the musical side alone, it's HIS job to be THE most musically together musician on that bandstand, meaning you gotta really know your s**t and also know exactly how to communicate both what you do want from every member as well as what you DON'T want and all in no uncertain terms.
In my experience, I've never seen a democratic band work for longer than 6 months max because somebody has to be that alpha male dog that keeps everybody's butts in line and having band eetings are fine for getting input but someone HAS to be there to make all the final decisions about everything.
One thing I learned along the way from quite a few pros is that as a bandleader, if something gets messed up by one of your band members, as the bandleader, it's ALWAYS you, the bandleader, who will forever get a ration of s**t from the club owner/manager/booking agent/talent buyer and just like in a regular business where if a customer gets screwed by a low level employee, it's the manager who gets the heat and deservedly so. Why? Just like in ANY business, it's all happening under your watch. It's the exact same thing with the military and the different ranks and their responsibilities.
This is just a small taste of things and this is a subject that those of us who has been either a pro or who has led any band can tell you some hard experiences they've had to deal with and nowadays, even online and in a number of publications that are available, I will ALWAYS recommend learning the business side of music, even tho it may bore some of you, it will be extremely eye opening. Goofing around in an open jam is a FAR CRY from being in a REAL band situation and no jam can ever really replicate what a real band and bandleader deals with.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Jul 27, 2019 8:26 AM
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dougharps
1984 posts
Jul 27, 2019
10:18 AM
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Great stuff posted in this thread!
Bands need an identity and direction in terms of music and performance. Usually there seem to be one or two primary leaders in any band, though in a group there are lesser roles that help things work between musicians. If the primary leaders can share the duties cooperatively and other members accept the leadership, great. Otherwise things will fall apart.
I break gigging down to 3 factors:
1. Music (arrangements, musical skill, chops, band musical cohesion and direction.)
2. Entertainment (The band and vocalist(s) have to be able to bring enjoyment to the audiences and bring out enough people to the venues to sustain attendance. You can be great musically and not entertain and fail. You can be musically mediocre and great at entertaining and do OK. No crowd, no income for the venue, no gigs!)
3. Business (Booking gigs that support the band, dealing with venues, travel, lodging, payment, and sometimes riding herd on some band members so they don't screw up a good thing.)
I haven't toured much, but know and play with many musicians who have toured extensively. Long distance touring adds a lot of hassle and costs making arrangements and may not be financially as beneficial as regional touring, unless you really can draw BIG crowds willing to pay. Merchandise is almost a financial necessity if you tour.
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Doug S.
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nacoran
10155 posts
Jul 27, 2019
2:23 PM
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In both bands I was in I was the secretary. I made sure everyone had copies of lyrics. I occasionally did a bit of leading on stage, but it was frustrating. The other guy would say he wanted me to do it and then cut in in awkward ways. I have to put myself in a weird headspace to take the lead on stage (although not so much when I'm up there alone... it's not about stage nervousness so much as not wanting to step on other people.)
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Nate
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Gnarly
2675 posts
Jul 27, 2019
7:16 PM
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I have been in bands and I have been a solo act.
Also a bunch of small groups, duos and trios.
I like solo the best because it's just me and the audience--and the person running the venue, again I can deal with them myself instead of following someone else's lead.
I enjoy being a sideman, but not having to split the pay or obey someone else's orders. Mostly what I like is the musical synergy.
But I'm not a harp player, as such--it's just a relief for the vocal or guitar solo . . .
I think it's a natural for the harp player/vocalist/frontman to be the bandleader, but I understand if they don't have the musical skills to do it all--
How does Mooncat do it? Or Kim Wilson?
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barbequebob
3602 posts
Jul 29, 2019
9:52 AM
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The business side of things as a leader also means people skills and just dealing with musicians alone can be quite the headache as many have extremely fragile egos and ALL musicians will also have to learn to compartmentalize things and there are going to be ough decisions that will HAVE to be made, and one example is that a musician in your band that you may like on a personal level, but is a drag on the band musically and business wise, with things like lousy time, trying to keep them sober enough to play decently as examples, you can't afford to wait for them to get better and you'll have to move on and tell them that you have to fire them and it's never easy but it has to be done.
The bandleader being the most skilled musician in the band isn't just about solos alone and one of the things that he/she HAS to have is excellent time and bandleaders who have lousy time almost always hire musicans with lousy time and of course, that means that'll be a really lousy, grooveless, boring band for the audience.
Dealing with club owners/manager/booking sgents/talent buyers can also be another headache as well and if you're the bandleader, just like a doctor or the owner of your own busines, you'e always on call 24/7 because you do have to know exactly what time they can be reached and you have to get used to playing phone tag quite often.
Having a website now is important, but now, social media presence is also important as well, but promo kit/press kit is still a must and for many bands, they may need to think about hiring someone who sets these things up professionally because if it looks amateurish, that's the impression you give and you lose immeditate credibility. Even with the electronic press kits, you still need the old school press kit, which had the cover letter, hype sheets, your band schedule, reviews and a glossy 8x10 photo (preferably black and white, but color can do also and a good idea is to have both) and it's a good idea to go to reputble professional photographer who specializes in band/musician photography for the best results.
When you deal with a club owner, before you even contact them, MAKE DAMNED SURE that not only you get the PROPER spelling of their name, but also the proper pronunciation as well, just like if you were going to an interview for a day job and even tho some it won't matter, to a lot of them, it's bad business etiquette and means you're too lazy to do your homework and that alone can cost you a possible gig.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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