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Shure Elements
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Lou
72 posts
Jun 24, 2019
9:20 PM
Hi, I've got an old Brown Bullet shell I want to put a good sounding vintage element in but don't want spend 250 on a black label element. So my question is in there much difference between the white label elements from different decades. I had a Green Bullet from the early 1980's that I really didn't like much and don't want a kate 70's early 80's element. The elements I'm looking at are from late 50's early 60's and they all are marked 99A86 some have an AG,NI or a QA after the number one reads 99A86 112 and are selling for around 60-100 bucks but if there pretty much the same element they were using in late 70's early 80's I'm not interested in them.
Thanks
Lou
nacoran
10137 posts
Jun 27, 2019
1:14 PM
I don't know much about the electronics end of the game. If you are on FB you could try asking Greg Heuman. He'd likely know. If you aren't on FB I can try to page him to the thread, but our Bat Signal doesn't always work. :)

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SuperBee
6037 posts
Jun 27, 2019
4:43 PM
Hi Lou. I think it’s really hard to try classify these elements by year. They really don’t seem to work that way ime. You can get 3 elements from the same year and they could all be quite different.
Greg has tried to classify them on his website, breaking them into 5 groups iirc, but he makes the point that the difference between individual elements from any group can be greater than the general difference from one group to another.

Having said that about the website, I found I was misremembering. The comments I was remembering were elsewhere.

They are in a post Greg made on Bluesharmonica dot com a few years back. Here is what he had to say about the elements back then:

“The Shure CM's and CR's are excellent elements with that "brown sound" - anything from the single impedance CM on up is very, very good. Here's the chronology:

1949–Model 520 introduced - “R5” element ( “Black Label CR”) 1954–switched to (“White label CR”)

1960 - switched to R7 single impedance CM with opaque epoxy (“Premium CM)”) 1963- switched to single impedance CM with translucent epoxy (“Single impedance CM”) 1980–Model 520D introduced. R44 element. (“Dual impedance CM”) 1997–Model 520D discontinued. 1997–Model 520DX introduced. High/low impedance. Not a CM at all.

The older the element, the better it is, in MOST people's opinions, and that means "for getting a big fat warm blues tone through a tube amp."

Let me try to describe the difference this way. The difference between a black label CR and a dual impedance CM? Anyone can hear it. The CR is warmer, fatter and grittier. Between a white label CR and single impedance CM? Most good players can hear it. Between any two adjacent models? A really good player can hear it - but the variation from one element to the next of the SAME category is as big or bigger a difference. In other words, moving from one model to the next improves your odds, but may or may not result in an appreciably better element. The price IS driven by both tone AND scarcity which is why the price begins to get really steep. I put single imepdance CM elements in my wood mics by default and they are very, very good elements. (In fact, the difference between the single and dual impedance CM's is a good deal greater than any other interval.)”

So, according to that, there’s no big predictable difference between elements made from late 63 to 1980. But there can be considerable differences between individual elements made in that period. You could find an awesome element made in 79 though, and an ordinary element made in 64.

I have a pretty lacklustre 1950 black CR, and a 59CM which is nothing special. I have a 64 CM and 72 CM that I’d never part with until I’m done. Also a 54 white CR which is very special.

Last Edited by SuperBee on Jun 27, 2019 4:52 PM
Lou
73 posts
Jun 27, 2019
9:39 PM
Cool, good info. makes sense and explains why I didn't like my early 80's 520D very much. I'll see what I can find in the 60's or early 70's that would fit my budget. I have 2 mic's that bring the goods 1 is a JT 30 shell with an old turner element in it kinda honks and has good distorted sound when pushed/cupped the other is a Bulletini so I can take some time and hunt around. What has me puzzled on my mics is some days the JT 30 is it super tone no feed back, cutting through the mix & I'm thinking this sounds better than the Bulletini other days It's just the opposite & I'm saying I don't need that JT 30 this mic does it all, same amp, same band similar set up, same clown blowing same harps ?? When I hear them played back if we record something I have no preference at all & I'm just hearing where my playing needs work. I still don't have a ton of hours playing em so it's defiantly a work in progress.
Thanks
Lou
Harpaholic
945 posts
Jun 29, 2019
5:23 PM
Bee, all good info except the R5 was a replacement CM/CR. So if you had one go bad you would order an R5.
R meant replacement.

The R7 was the replacement crystal for the 707A's. Obviously more common to see an R7 over an R5 for obvious reasons.

The only early R5's I have seen and owned were NOS in the box. I actually still have one, a 99G86 from late 50's and it's strong!!
I tested it with jumpers to keep it NOS.

It's truly a superb element, but I don't want to use it because of rarity and the box is mint with all the original packing material and literature.

Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jun 29, 2019 5:30 PM
SuperBee
6043 posts
Jun 29, 2019
9:00 PM
Good pickup. I’ll accept blame for missing the error but I can’t claim credit for the info: That’s a direct cut/paste from Greg’s post on BluesHarmonica dot com.
Lou
74 posts
Jun 30, 2019
6:53 AM
Are Ohm reading outputs any indication of how the element will sound ? I've seen sellers showing or claiming ohms from low thousand like 1008 & some higher ones up to 1300 ? I found a late 50's CR that fits my budget with ohms on the lower end at little over 1000.
Thanks

Never Mind
Just read Greg H article on mics & He answered my question
Ohms don't matter as far as tone goes is what I got of it.
Thanks
Lou

Last Edited by Lou on Jun 30, 2019 7:17 AM
Harpaholic
946 posts
Jun 30, 2019
10:39 AM
At the bottom of Shure spec sheets for vintage mics with crystals or cm/cr's you will see a list of replacement parts, e.g., R5, R7

The ohm readings just tell you Hi Z, medium Z or Low Z. Typically Black Cr's are highest.
1.3-1.4K ohms is not uncommon

Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jun 30, 2019 10:43 AM


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