agarner
15 posts
Apr 04, 2018
6:15 PM
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I got lost on Youtube and found a video by Todd Parrott (under appreciated in my opinion) and he was saying that he tunes the 7 hole draw a half step lower on most of his harps. He explained how it not only affects the draw note but also the 7 blow bends. Granted, he plays a wide variety of genres, but even with blues it sounded great from him.
Is anyone working with this tuning? If so what is your take?
Last Edited by agarner on Apr 04, 2018 6:27 PM
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SweetBlood
58 posts
Apr 04, 2018
8:03 PM
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I just looked up the video and watched it. Sounds like a great idea to me. I almost never use the 7 draw (mostly due to my own inadequacy as a player), but if it was tuned down a half step I think that would be a lot different, and you don't lose the note because you will have it on the 7 blow bend.
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florida-trader
1288 posts
Apr 05, 2018
4:17 AM
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It is an easy modification to make. Similar to Country Tuning where you tune the 5 draw up a half step. You don't lose the original note. You just have to do a half step bend to retrieve it, but you add what would normally be a 5 overblow.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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dougharps
1739 posts
Apr 05, 2018
5:19 AM
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On a C harp it gives you Bb on the 7 draw instead of 6 OB, and you can blow bend the 7 blow from C to B. I tried this out a while back and there was a thread here.
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EDIT:
Todd Tuning Thread
There is also a link to an earlier thread at the top of this linked thread.
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I tuned an old Lee Oskar down by filing (still have it) then 5 Spec 20s using BluTak. I found I seldom used them, though they were interesting and very good for easy minors and bluesy stuff in second where the Bb is the flat third. It is the flat 7 in first position and natural 4 in 12th.
After a while I removed the BluTak and returned them to normal tuning. I would suggest tuning down with BluTak on the reed end rather than solder or removing metal near the base. It can be reversed with BluTak.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Apr 05, 2018 6:19 AM
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Martin
1456 posts
Apr 05, 2018
6:22 AM
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It´s weird, but my experience is very much the same as dougharps. The weirdness consists in the fact that some basic retuning really *does* open up new possibilities, and 7D lowered is one of them.
But I rarely used it.
Some form of conservatism has established itself in me and, once I got the hang of it, several re-tunings that I hade made was left unused in my case.
The only alternative tuning that has withstood the test of time for me is raised 5D: sometimes, in 2nd pos, you need that maj7th for a bit of wailing.
(I have not yet come around to the "B thing", which, although it might be something of a one trick pony, has a luscious sound.)
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GamblersHand
679 posts
Apr 05, 2018
6:30 AM
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This tuning makes the normal scale of each position closer to the next one "up", especially if the 3 draw is also tuned down - ie. 1st becomes similar to 2nd (Mixolydian), 2nd to 3rd
Country tuning does the opposite, ie 2nd to a pure major scale like 1st position, 3rd similar to 2nd
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Gnarly
2468 posts
Apr 05, 2018
10:40 AM
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@Gambler Hmmm so | C d | E g | G bb | C d | E f | G a | C bb | E d | G f | C a |
Adding a Bb to the C scale definitely makes this tuning in F, so Lydian (actually more like G minor Dorian).
I wish Overblow.com would come back online, I sure miss their scale finder.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 05, 2018 10:42 AM
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bigd
650 posts
Apr 05, 2018
12:48 PM
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Coincidently I just ordered 3 of these tunings from Joe Spiers. I still get a thrill when I hit that note! Tod tuned one for me a few years ago. His “E blues” demo video is one of my all time favs: what verve!
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GamblersHand
680 posts
Apr 05, 2018
3:08 PM
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@Gnarly - for your 1st position C-scale example, the flattened 3 and 7 draw give a flat-7th, so playing first becomes closer to the standard 2nd position Mixolydian scale
If you played 2nd position you would have minor thirds but a major 6th (Dorian), like 3rd position on a normal harp.
3rd position would have a natural minor scale like 4th on a standard harp....and so on
....though it's not great for 4th or 5th
This tuning is especially useful for 3rd, as a lot of harp players use this position over minor key songs (not Dorian minor) and have to avoid the 3 and 7 draws
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Piro39
133 posts
Apr 05, 2018
4:45 PM
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I do it all the time, it gives you a complete minor pentatonic on the upper register in 2nd position and I put a valve on the 8 blow reed to get the flatted 5th on the 8 draw bend so you have a complete blues scale. There is a lot of good stuff in the upper register. One should learn scales by degrees and the upper landscape becomes very easy to navigate. What you loose is a great legato from 3 draw notes in a row which are part of the major pentatonic scale, one must blow bend the seven blow to get the missing major 3rd. When ever you change something in Richter tuning you gain something and loose something.
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MP
3579 posts
Apr 06, 2018
4:29 PM
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I've done this mod and after fooling w/ it I changed it back. Often, w/ mods, one gains something cool and loses something else that's equally cool.. Parrotts single note style embraces this type of mod, mine doesn't. I'd rather OB a 5 if needed. By the way, Parrott is overdrawing and has been for awhile I suspect.
Re mods and cool new harps. I finally saw a new harp called the SlipSlider. It's a Brendan Power baby and his best yet in my opinion. The plates have magnets so you can slide them and get all kinds of new notes. It's brilliant!!!! The cool thing about it is you don't lose the original note set up. Oh, and he uses an MBD and I love my MBDs.
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Reasonably priced Reed Replacement and tech support on Hand Made Series Hohner Diatonic Harmonicas.
'Making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time.
Click MP for more info. Aloha Mark
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Last Edited by MP on Apr 06, 2018 4:34 PM
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snowman
332 posts
Apr 08, 2018
7:54 PM
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after watching T parrot talk about it and play it years ago, I tuned one
Now few years later -I have all 12 keys tuned that way --mostly for blues n rock
I kept a set of [A Bb C D E F G] with regular tuning for my rack when I do Neil Young Dyan etc
I love this tuning it helps in ascending from the low end to the high end of the harp===and descending from high to low end sounds bluesier to me
All my harps are either powder coated or painted [auto paint ] so i can quickly determine what type harp i have
my ugly orange ones are all reg tuning for dylan type stuff]
My natural minor harps are all powder coated with a glitter blue [YES I CAN PLAY 3RD POS, BUT PREFER NAT MINOR HARP FOR RACK]
I have [b7 draw] harps in Bb Ab Eb Db Eb Gb as well---they are all Blue comb with grey covers and a flame on them
So when I look at my case I know what to grab
This last year I got Melody makers in 5 keys, they’RE white w/ flames—I use for “Georgia”=== Whats goin on “ marvin Gaye
Once u get use to one different tuning ---it no longer feels weird trying a new one
LET YOUR EARS ADJUST AND DON’T BE AFRAID OF CHANGE
I will try make demo soon of the difference between T parrot tune and regular--- Do an ascending and descending thing
if u want the 7 draw to be flat 1/2 step----
1] get one from arzajac or
2] the speed and weight of a reed determines its pitch---- if u want a reed to be flat , u need to slow the reed down
---I SCRAPE METAL OFF AT REED END---this makes the reed vibrate through the slot slower [MAKIN GO FLAT]
u can also add weight to the reed end [opposite of base end] causing reed to slow down---'go flat'
blu tac whatever=
try one first then
GIVE YOUR EARS A CHANCE TO ADJUST-
I gave my buddy a natural minor and or a b7 draw harp years ago-- but because it sounded different he gave em back
That guY still hits draw 3 and draw 7 in cross harp on fully minor songs---after 35+ years of playing -he still does this-he won't learn 3rd and he won't adjust ears to alternate tunings
Try one
PS T don't think T Parrot is under rated-- most players i know think he is in a league that few enter-- HE'S FRICKIN GREAT IN ALL STYLES MUSIC
Last Edited by snowman on Apr 08, 2018 8:02 PM
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Michael Rubin
1179 posts
Apr 09, 2018
9:32 AM
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I also agree Todd, is not underrated. Most pros think he is one of the best. Perhaps he is underrecognized, i.e. not as famous as Ricci, Gruenling, etc.
I wanted to learn his song Sunday Soup. It is a fast 4 minute instrumental. Give it a listen.
I had someone tune me a harp in his tuning. The harp and my embouchure wasn't up to the challenge of the tune. I got a Joe Spiers harp. I got it to 80% of the speed before I lost patience. I had been working on it for two months.
I like the tuning, but had Joe retune it to standard. I still have my first harp if I want to mess with it. There are a myriad of possibilities.
What I mostly took away from the tune was various methods of tongue articulating or not tongueing overblows and different ways of raising and lowering the various pitches on the overblows, especially 6 and 7. Definitely upped my overblow game. Thanks, Todd!
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Todd Parrott
1444 posts
Apr 11, 2018
9:11 PM
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Glad some of you like the tuning and are using it. For the record, I also use regular tuned harps. The flatted 7 draw is a useful tuning for me, but I use whatever the best tool is for the job.
I need to make a new video about this tuning, because it has many more uses than just being a minor 3rd. It's probably a good idea to have at least one or two in your harp case.
I wasn't the first to use it. In an e-mail from 2011, Pat Missin had this to say about it:
"That tuning has been used by a bunch of people over the years. JJ Milteau and Johnny Mars have been using it since at least the 80s. Lee Oskar has been using it in combination with other alterations for a similar length of time. Nilo Guzman was using it as his main tuning, the last I heard. I've hear repeated stories that Al Wilson was doing it back in the 60s, but there doesn't seem to be any hard evidence of that and it's definitely not what he used on tracks like "On The Road Again" (which had the 6 draw raised to get the same note).."
Thank you all for the kind words!
Last Edited by Todd Parrott on Apr 11, 2018 9:11 PM
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MP
3582 posts
Apr 16, 2018
6:53 PM
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Just so no one gets the idea I'm against alternate tunings I'd like to say I have an A in the Blind Owl tuning, At least one maj7th I've made, A slew of Natural and Harmonic minors, A Koch or two, a circa 1925 Hohner Chro w/ original box- (it's actually a Koch tuning used prior to the real chros made some years later) a bunch of Low tunings, a couple of high tunings, and at present I'm making a Maj7th for a friend out of a Crossover. Just to set the record straight. C yah,
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Reasonably priced Reed Replacement and tech support on Hand Made Series Hohner Diatonic Harmonicas.
'Making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time.
Click MP for more info. Aloha Mark
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Thievin' Heathen
1003 posts
Apr 28, 2018
10:39 PM
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Hey MP, What's Blind Owl Tuning?
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indigo
501 posts
Apr 29, 2018
2:53 AM
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Canned Heat "on the Road again" he tuned the 6 draw up on an A Harp a semitone to 'G' (from F#)
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MP
3591 posts
Apr 29, 2018
12:36 PM
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Yeep- indigo is correct. I have it on good authority via the brother of the guy whom does Owl in the present Canned Heat that Al 'Blind Owl' Wilson tuned all his harps that way. I havent listened to Heat songs lately so I have no proof. I only use the A Owl when requested to play 'On the Road Again' @ gigs. It's surprising how often people ask for it. The 6 draw up from F# to G sounds hip and is essential to the tune. An OB doesn't cut it.
Reasonably priced Reed Replacement and tech support on Hand Made Series Hohner Diatonic Harmonicas.
'Making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time.
Click MP for more info. Aloha Mark
.
Last Edited by MP on Apr 29, 2018 1:27 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
1004 posts
Apr 29, 2018
12:49 PM
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Ooops, I see Todd had that covered ~2 posts up.
Man, that's pretty innovative.
I need to study this instrument some more.
Out to the shed..., I think I've got a partially assembled A floating around the bench somewhere.
Last Edited by Thievin' Heathen on Apr 29, 2018 12:52 PM
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MP
3592 posts
Apr 29, 2018
1:23 PM
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Theavin. Its a cool mod and easy. Tuning 6 up a half step takes no time at all. I use a file as it removes brass fast. I think Hakan has a video where he uses the small lee oskar chisel. Its actually a good tool.
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Reasonably priced Reed Replacement and tech support on Hand Made Series Hohner Diatonic Harmonicas.
'Making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time.
Click MP for more info. Aloha Mark
.
Last Edited by MP on Apr 29, 2018 1:29 PM
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