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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Harmo Harmonicas?
Harmo Harmonicas?
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nacoran
9501 posts
Jul 02, 2017
12:58 PM
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Has anyone ever heard of Harmo harmonicas?
http://harmo.com/
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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WinslowYerxa
1357 posts
Jul 02, 2017
2:48 PM
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Their chromatics, like EastTops, have Suzuki-shaped covers and offer brass combs.
Positive reviews of their Torpedo diatonic have been turning up on Facebook harmonica groups. The reedplates appear to be chrome plated and thicker than standard.
Their mailing address is in Eagle, Idaho, while their telephone area code maps to southern California.
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Winslow
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Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
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Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jul 02, 2017 2:50 PM
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Rontana
414 posts
Jul 02, 2017
3:15 PM
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Eagle, ID and Woodland Hills, CA also appear to be the registered addresses for the Harmonicaland site (Harmonicaland LLC).
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Rontana
415 posts
Jul 02, 2017
3:21 PM
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I think the spam filter ate my post.
Anyway . . . Eagle, Id and Woodland Hills, CA are also the addresses of record for the Harmonicaland site (Harmonicaland LLC - David Herzhaft).
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WinslowYerxa
1358 posts
Jul 02, 2017
6:36 PM
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David Herzhaft is a diatonic player, originally from France, who lives in Southern California. He has a couple of books out of scales for diatonic.
And "harmo" is a common French nickname for harmonica. I was wondering about that. Now it makes sense.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2017 for SPAH in Tulsa!
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jul 02, 2017 6:37 PM
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nacoran
9502 posts
Jul 02, 2017
9:32 PM
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The plot thickens! I'd think if they are East Tops they'd make for good customs, with some built in profit margin since East Tops seem to come in under the price for comparable harps.
At first I thought maybe it had something to do with Turboharp. Their site design is similar, sort of early modern? No links there though.
The only French term for harmonica I had heard was "ruine-babines" (ruins the lips).
I think it's a good sign of health in the community that we are getting new entries all the time.
I always dream that if I even hit the lottery I'm going to start the Hudson River Harmonica Company and make all my crazy ideas (double decker spinning pitch pipe let lets you use any 12 notes with any other twelve notes... a harp with reeds mounted 90 degrees over, so they swing through the sides of the tines, meaning that they interact with the reed in the next hole over (I have a back valve system in mind so that you can play each one as a draw or a blow hole... a 10 hole ocarina that lets you play all the notes you can get on a harmonica, laid out like a harmonica... thick reeds that don't bend, but rather swing on a magnetic spring... a hand spinner for harmonicas so you can spin them easy in your hand to show off... a harmonica that will teach you scales- you plug it into your computer and start playing along with the song. Any time you miss a note it shocks your lips. Even have an idea on how to make a super quiet harmonica for practice...
Me crazy? No, not crazy. Eccentric maybe, but not crazy. Well, okay, maybe diagnosed crazy, but what's 'diagnosed' really? It's just someone's opinion...
:)
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Sherwin
239 posts
Jul 02, 2017
9:40 PM
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Torpedo has Easttop pattern coverplates, which leads me to believe it's a rebranded/OEM Easttop.
I'm impressed with the many models of easttop diatonics I bought, to try out. The cheapest one they offer, the T10-3, a Spl. 20 clone, is better than every other cheap harp I've tried. All draw bends and blow bends are available, though I wouldn't say it plays 'easily', it is the class leader.
Hmmm, the longtime established manufacturers must be taking notice of these developments. And they must be thankful for brand loyalty. These are exciting times, and I don't wish this on the big three. In some respects, the comparison is an apples and oranges thing. These harps are not terribly refined, yet they get enough of the really important things right.
Michael
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bluzmn
113 posts
Jul 03, 2017
4:55 AM
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I see that some of the East Top models of harps are available with riveted or welded reeds, and the ones with welded reeds are more expensive. What is the advantage of having welded reeds? I prefer riveted reeds, because they're easier to replace.
Last Edited by bluzmn on Jul 03, 2017 5:04 AM
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nacoran
9504 posts
Jul 03, 2017
6:46 AM
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Bluzmn, I think I heard that welded reeds, since they don't apply pressure when you put them on, are less likely to bend the reed plate, and just in general more likely to be slotted well. I got one with the welded reeds. It plays well, but that's a sample size of one.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Sherwin
240 posts
Jul 04, 2017
5:10 AM
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An overblow harp for $69.00 US tells me the set up must also be done in China. If so, that's something new.
Last Edited by Sherwin on Jul 04, 2017 5:51 AM
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David Herzhaft
62 posts
Mar 09, 2018
9:05 AM
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Each Torpedo is hand customized in Eagle Idaho USA
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Flbl
130 posts
Mar 09, 2018
12:04 PM
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Looked at there web site a while ago, and there was something about customization coming soon, they do look very much like a rebranded EastTop though, and EastTop just looks like a copy of a Suzuki,good template to follow though so if they can offer customization and a low cost like EastTop, then this could get interesting
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BeePee
58 posts
Mar 16, 2018
9:28 PM
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I bought one and found that the Torpodo is simply an Easttop with some wax roughly applied at the base of the reeds. No embossing at all - I examined the reedplates under a microscope. Describing it as 'hand customised' is to debase the meaning of the term for commercial gain.
Don't waste your money, just buy the Easttop original, which is a good harp but much cheaper. If you want the same harp that has good embossing (microscope verified) and other nice real customising touches, buy it from Sergey Zernosek: http://ermonica.ucoz.com/
Last Edited by BeePee on Mar 16, 2018 9:35 PM
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Flbl
142 posts
Mar 17, 2018
5:48 AM
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That's sad considering their prices are up there with Suzuki.
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David Herzhaft
63 posts
Mar 18, 2018
3:11 PM
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Bee Pee,
I personally customize each harmonica and a lot is going on ...
Far more than wax applied !
I make sure they all play all OB and OD - when you of course know the technique
I'd be more than happy to offer you a full refund if you don;t mind giving your real name here we could find your order.
Please contact Harmo customer service to arrange your return and refund
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
Last Edited by David Herzhaft on Mar 18, 2018 3:13 PM
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BeePee
59 posts
Mar 20, 2018
6:42 AM
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Thanks for your reply David. Brendan Power is the name. I bought your version of the Easttop 008K (which you rebrand as the Harmo Torpedo) and the Ermonica version of the same Easttop model, and the difference is massive. That's because Sergey embosses the reed slots on his, and you don't.
In my opinion it's misleading to call a bit of wax and reed gapping 'hand customised' - as it's commonly understood, that term includes slot embossing. Since you don't actually define the term on your website, I felt people should know the facts of what is actually done, or not done, on the Harmo Torpedo. There is certainly no embossing done on it at all.
The Easttop 008K is a decent harp that overblows pretty well out of the box, but it's also their cheapest diatonic, available for $15 or less. The Harmo publicity omits to mention the Torpedo is simply a rebranded Easttop 008K however. Instead it says "The Torpedo is a top-of-the-line professional quality instrument...". Considering the true provenance of the harp and how little is actually done to it, this seems again to be somewhat misleading.
It certainly misled me: I bought into the Torpedo hype expecting something pretty special, only to be sadly disappointed - not only in the playability, which is adequate though not spectacular, but in what I saw under the microscope. Especially in comparison to the Ermonica version of the very same Easttop harp, which I purchased at the same time. There is simply no contest between them.
I like the fact that Sergey Zhenosek doesn't in any way obscure the fact that his harp is an Easttop 008K and, despite the far greater amount of customising work he does on it (including expert full-reed embossing), his prices are cheaper too.
Last Edited by BeePee on Mar 20, 2018 7:15 AM
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David Herzhaft
64 posts
Mar 20, 2018
2:23 PM
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Oh Brendan,
Don't be jealous. Now we can all understand that you're not happy someone else is making harmonicas. Sorry your brand is not doing so good and Thank god harmonicas don't have to be approved by Brendan Power !
I'm so sorry your knowledge of diatonic customization and overblows is not as good as I thought :) You're more into valves anyways but you see I don't spit on your models like you do. I remember you wrote me once you don't think overblow is the future.
We clearly diverge in our opinion. To me Overbends is the way to go like so many players have proven and will continue to demonstrate.
I would still be glad to offer you a refund even though I now understand that the sole purpose of your purchase was to fire at will on a new competitor under false pretense.
There is much more than reed gapping and wax done on this harmonica otherwise it wouldn't play that well. And the techniques I use are by no means to be disclosed or supposed to be the same as your friend.
I encourage customers to compare the Torpedo to any other harmonica and also check non biased reviews posted on internet from people who purchased the Torpedo.
I sincerely think the Torpedo is the best bang for your bucks at $69.90 and beats any day of the year out of the box or much more expensive so called custom harmonicas that look cool but don't sound that good :)
The truth lies in the hands of harmonica players and customers
I hope you'll feel better and get back to playing good music instead of trying to sack honest people trying to change the harmonica world in a different direction than yours
Sincerely,
David Herzhaft
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
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BeePee
60 posts
Mar 21, 2018
12:00 AM
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Thanks for your interesting reply David. That's quite a litany of false arguments you employ: Argumentm ad Populum, Argumentum ad Hominem, Begging the Question, Evasion, the Straw Man fallacy... well done on getting them all in there!
Your condescending personal attack and general obfuscation barely merit a reply, but just to address one point. You say: "...I now understand that the sole purpose of your purchase was to fire at will on a new competitor under false pretense."
Absolutely not, on two levels.
First, my purpose in buying the Torpedo was the opposite of what you assert: if it was indeed as good as claimed, I was going to recommend it to customers of the Easttop version of my Switch-Harp twin diatonic model as an overblow friendly choice for them. That's why I bought the Ermonica version of the same Easttop harp at the same time, to make a comparison and select the best. For the factual reasons I described earlier, it was no contest: the Ermonica won hands down.
I would have said nothing, but felt I had been misled by the Torpedo publicity and thought other prospective buyers should know the facts. I was frankly astonished that you were claiming to offer a harmonica "hand customized for overblows" - without embossing...?? This simply doesn't make sense. You claim to do various mysterious processes (too precious to reveal apparently - another old sales trick) but all I could see under the microscope was a lot of very roughly applied wax, and perhaps some reed gapping. Many harps will overblow out of the box quite well, notably Hohner and Easttop, but no serious overbender would omit embossing from the mods they include to make the harp play to its best for that style. They would also expect it to be included in any harp they buy that is claimed as hand optimized for overblowing. The Torpedo is not embossed, as you still fail to acknowledge.
Second, I always like to see new independent makers/sellers in the harmonica scene, and have often publicly praised those who offer something genuinely new and good. What I don't like in any field (not just harmonicas) is to see innocent buyers paying over the odds for items sold under false pretenses. In all the fancy promo on your website you obscure the fact the Torpedo is just a rebranded Easttop harp people can buy for a fraction of the price. That gets into the highly dubious area of false advertising.
To be fair, Harmo is not the only one following this nefarious practice. The Bushman Delta Frost is another case of mutton dressed as lamb: it is simply a rebranded version of another Chinese harp, the Kongsheng Amazing 20. But nowhere are Kongsheng or China ever mentioned in the Bushman hype... And then there is the expensive Goldsnable chromatic; though claimed to be designed and made in Holland, it is simply a rebranded brass-comb Easttop you can buy for a third of the price. (All three cases can easily be verified with clear photographic evidence - just Google the names of the Chinese originals and compare the photos to the rebranded imposters).
This illicit sales practice of obscuring or not declaring the true maker or country of origin of a product (illegal under consumer rights laws in many countries) not only deludes innocent Western harmonica buyers, it also disrespects the Chinese manufacturers who make these fine harmonicas. I've visited the Easttop and Kongsheng factories in Jiangsu province and seen how hard everyone is working there to constantly improve their products, for our benefit and their commercial success. I came away very impressed with their work ethic and commitment to quality.
I get harps made by Easttop (Lucky 13, AsiaBend) and Kongsheng (PowerBender, PowerDraw) and make a point of stating the manufacturer's name in my publicity, as well as including it on the harps themselves. That's not only being clear and transparent for the buyer, it's also giving due credit to the hard working Chinese companies who are making these good quality harps.
Rebranders trying to cover up the fact their harmonicas are made in China are not only deviously seeking to dupe their customers for commercial gain, they are also perpetuating a kind of commercial racism with the implication that "all Chinese stuff is crap" (therefore the true Chinese origin of the stuff they sell must be hidden or denied). That's not just disrespectful and distasteful - it's also very out of date.
Last Edited by BeePee on Mar 21, 2018 4:31 AM
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David Herzhaft
65 posts
Mar 21, 2018
7:37 AM
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Brendan
I have been customizing harmonicas since 1997
Started like most people doing it on Suzuki, Hohner and Seydel models and sold a lot of them.
I developed my way to do it I use my own tools and techniques. I offered some of those brands to do an overblow model like the Torpedo but they were not interested and said harmonica players will not care about it nor buy it.
What I do and how I do it is again not to be disclosed.
I never asked you what you do and how you do it
I think there is enough space on earth for as many harmonica players, brands and manufacturers
I don't badmouth your harmonicas or models
If don;t like your Torpedo I'll be happy to give you a full refund even though you bought it last year. If you ever come to Idaho I'll buy you a beer.
Now to other members and harmonica players please read around there has been several independent non biased reviews that are let's say more objective (as people who wrote it are not direct competitors like Brendan)
There are also videos showcasing how Harmo harmonicas sound like and truly deliver Overbends
I'm very happy and excited to be able to offer harmonica players a good custom harmonica at a competitive price with the Torpedo.
Check us out on www.harmo.com
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
Last Edited by David Herzhaft on Mar 21, 2018 7:38 AM
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hot4blues
109 posts
Mar 21, 2018
9:28 AM
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Brendan (BeePee). I have a question that perhaps some people may have overlooked. You stated in a post that the Bushman Delta Frost is actually a rebranded Chinese harp. Are you indicating that the Delta Frost is actually a Chinese brand harp, & the cover plates are rebranded to give it an American appearance? My suspicion is that the Delta Frost is made up of parts made in China, but assembled here in the USA. Or since the model is in fact made in America, but is a copycat of a Chinese brand harp? I'm always curious about reading between the lines. To me, there's a difference between anything that has parts made in China but assembled in America versus both the parts are made as well as assembled in America. Inquiring minds need to know.
Last Edited by hot4blues on Mar 21, 2018 9:30 AM
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BeePee
61 posts
Mar 21, 2018
10:38 AM
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@ David Herzhaft:
You persist in alleging my motivation in calling out your misleading advertising is because I see you and the Torpedo as a 'competitor'. That's simply not true: I do not sell any 10-hole Richter harp at all, let alone one billed as being good for overblows.
Aside from making such unwarranted assertions you haven't directly answered any of my factual points; I'll leave others to draw their own conclusions from that.
@hot4blues:
The Delta Frost was never made in USA. To start with it was a rebranded Suzuki Harpmaster, and in recent years it has been a rebranded Chinese Kongsheng Amazing 20 (which is itself a copy of the Harpmaster).
Why not check for yourself? Here are photos of the current Delta Frost:
http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/harp%20pics/bushman_02.jpg
http://www.bushmanmusic.com/images/7-af.jpg
And here are photos of the Kongsheng Amazing 20 (it comes with various comb colours, in this case blue):
https://www.amazon.com/KONGSHENG-AM-20D-Holes-Blues-Harmonica/dp/B073WB6R5B/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1521651442&sr=8-5&keywords=kongsheng+harmonica+bb
If you don't believe it from the photos you could always buy one of each and verify they are the same harp directly. You'll find all parts are identical, and interchangeable: you can fit the reedplates and covers from each harp to the other and they will fit perfectly. The only difference is price: the Amazing 20 will cost you less than half as much.
Bushman claim on their website that they import the parts for the Delta Frost (though they don't say from who or where) and assemble the harps in America. They don't supply any evidence for this claim but if you believe them and it matters to you, then that could be worth the price difference perhaps? A direct comparison of the two Kongsheng-made harps will tell you the answer.
To be clear: there is nothing wrong with rebranding per se, or importing harps and adding value (as Harmo and Bushman claim to do). However companies who do so should be honest and inform customers of the true origin of the rebranded goods. Since these are both American-based companies they should be aware there are USA regulations about country-of-origin marking:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/492/~/requirements-for-country-of-origin-marking-on-goods-imported-into-the-u.s.
Last Edited by BeePee on Mar 21, 2018 11:01 AM
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1847
4786 posts
Mar 21, 2018
11:00 AM
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how about hohner.. everyone is convinced that they would never import parts and assemble them in germany.
Last Edited by 1847 on Mar 21, 2018 11:01 AM
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hvyj
3558 posts
Mar 21, 2018
11:52 AM
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I like the Harmo case. I usually use a Seydel hard case for my performing harps. But I also have a small set of harps tuned down for playing with musicians who tune to A432. I use a Harmo case for those. The Harmo case is smaller than the Seydel case and holds fewer harps. The Seydel holds 22 harps and the Harmo holds 14 but they both have the same type of interior slots/pockets that hold the harps, which i like. The exterior zipper pocket on the Harmo is also handy. The pocket is a little tight, but it's useful. The Seydel case doesn't have an exterior pocket at all.
Last Edited by hvyj on Mar 21, 2018 11:52 AM
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jbone
2520 posts
Mar 21, 2018
12:14 PM
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I don't know about Harmos, never tried one. I did have a run with Bushman, which I thought were decent enough, but I was not satisfied with my treatment as a customer. When a much more known, older, respected company brought out a harp I was interested in, I tried one, love it, began restocking my case, and never looked back. I began hearing or reading allegations that Bushman Delta Frost were a sort of imposter and never got a straight answer from the seller, so the deal was sealed for me.
I see several new kids on the block claiming to be good quality etc etc. Generally speaking, I usually go with a big name that supplies what I want in a harp. Hohner has a small place in my kit, Suzuki a much bigger place. Eastop has earned a place with their quality and price. I hope to try one of Brendan's Lucky 13's at some point. Otherwise, to date I'm in good shape.
Re: customs, I have a couple. One is a MB, one is an Eastop. The Hohner plays better. I generally can't afford a custom harp and these were horse trade deals I made.
I want an ootb harp that performs with little to no tweaking. I'm willing to adapt to individual harps rather than get stuck in all the minutiae of tweaking. My one concession is I will do some gap work.
I will be watching how this all shakes out.
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Harmonicatunes
245 posts
Mar 21, 2018
7:23 PM
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I usually stay out of these things, but a few observations come to mind.
Firstly David is an A+ overblow player. As the following video shows: https://youtu.be/XIH72ujn244
Secondly Brendan has a deeper understanding of Chinese harmonicas than just about anyone outside of China, as well as an intimate knowledge of the harmonica customisation process and community, going back over 30 years. And a world class player to boot. His efforts over the decades have won the backing of the worldwide harmonica community, myself included.
In short, it's not a good idea to argue Brendan down. Better to take what he says on board.
Looking at the harmo.com site, the term "Simply the best overblowing harmonica on the market" stands out. I'm not familiar with instruments from the newer customisers, like Joel Andersson, nor the harmo.com ones, plus I'm not an overblow player. So I can't comment. I have been impressed with Easttop diatonics out of the box, many other folk likewise.
However, hyperbole in the harmonica world is generally unwise, given the massive talent out there. In my view it's better to just state what you do, and leave it at that.
Finally, we all benefit from small enterprises like Brendan's, BlowsmeAway, Lone Wolf and others, providing our community with products we would otherwise not have. Harmo.com can potentially add to this. Let's hope for that.
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Tony Eyers
Australia
www.HarmonicaAcademy.com
everyone plays...
Last Edited by Harmonicatunes on Mar 21, 2018 9:54 PM
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David Herzhaft
66 posts
Mar 22, 2018
11:06 AM
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Thanks for the nice words Tony
The goal of the Torpedo is to provide an out of the box overblow ready harmonica
I used to sell customized promasters or Crossovers at $130-150 now you can get a Torpedo at $69 and the result is even better
It;s been long enough that overblows have been around and I believe harmonica players shouldn;t have to pay from $250 to $400 to get a decent overblow harmonica.
I have done a live demo in front of an audience with 20 different models including OTB and signature customized harmonicas and everybody agreed that the Torpedo was louder, would sustain the overblows better with no squeaking, would nicely overbend the overblows / overdraws and trigger them very fast.
There is a lot of hand work being done that is pretty time consuming but we want to keep the price down and managed so far.
I use those harmonicas every day.
That's the thought behind the Torpedo
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
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David Herzhaft
www.davidherzhaft.com
https://www.youtube.com/davidherzhaft
Last Edited by David Herzhaft on Mar 22, 2018 11:27 AM
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Spderyak
212 posts
Apr 02, 2018
4:06 AM
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interesting about Harmo being common french for harmonica.
Must be in the old country.
The region of Quebec I go to refers to them as "music embouchure"
If I'm up there saying I was looking for a harmo..well I think the resulting info would be much different...
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