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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Comb evolution of Hohner Marine Band
Comb evolution of Hohner Marine Band
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synopsis
1 post
Nov 20, 2016
7:04 AM
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All, may be some of you have notices that along the years, the combs of Hohner Marine Band have changed, obviously over the last 10 years.
I had one Marine Band like this one here:
Fairly orange in the front, and black in the back.
https://s4.postimg.org/69aspxh21/e778c6fc1324243bd5d618914e81f0a34235878b.jpg
https://s4.postimg.org/5l1y6zic9/81b1955ae84c89ebc32c8f2a1e91b0f17c730d63.jpg
Since few years (I do not even have a clue when this really happened), I noticed that the the combs became rather brown, pretty much like MB Deluxe.
https://s4.postimg.org/x5ury8zvd/hohner_marine_band_189620_c.jpg
https://s4.postimg.org/8bba46f15/04ce6e079c.jpg
I often wondered why this changed occured, and especially why Hohner never communicated about this change. If that would be any improvement, I believe they should have done it.
I like MBs a lot, but I do not own anyone yet, at least no longer. I have Crossovers and Deluxe which are really good. Really good, but pretty much the same.
I remember from the MB classic I had, it was slighly different with a slightly warmer tone (well "roots" actually) especially when playing chords.
Does anyone know exactly what are these "new" combs actually bring? Is it only about new sealing?
On many forums I can read many people swearing only about customs, but some other have a great sound without customs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQdDmK-i4f8
At this time, I'm still wondering if Crossovers or Deluxe are still worth against MBs classic. Does it still make a major difference?
Last Edited by synopsis on Nov 20, 2016 7:05 AM
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the_happy_honker
258 posts
Nov 20, 2016
9:04 AM
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As far as I am aware, the change in Classic combs occurred gradually some time after 2005, when Hohner introduced the MB Deluxe.
Hohner likely discovered it was cheaper to have one comb-making process rather than two. If you buy an uncommon key (B, F#, or a minor key) you may still find an old style comb once in a while.
The first "natural" brown combs were only sealed around the perimeter and the coverplates retained the lip-ripping, moustache-grabbing fold-over seam at the front edges, just like the Classic.
The changeover to a thicker, more durable, completely sealed comb and coverplates with rounded front edges coincided with the introduction of the Crossover in 2009.
If you tinker at all with your harps, as many of us on the forum do, the Deluxe or Crossover is a good deal, because they can be easily taken apart and assembled again. Classics are a pain because they are nailed.
I was very surprized to learn that the Deluxe version will no longer be sold in the U.S., due simply to the fact that the Crossover outsold the Deluxe 10:1. I have both and I prefer the Deluxe.
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Thievin' Heathen
877 posts
Nov 20, 2016
11:37 AM
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If you go back a real long time, you will find that alcohol dissolves the lacquer.
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synopsis
2 posts
Nov 20, 2016
12:40 PM
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Hey Mr Honker, many thanks for your reply.
This is very interesting. I also thought it came nearly after the introduction of the Deluxe. I just couldn't figure out even after googling that the new combs came with the introduction of the Crossover.
I also like the MB Deluxe over the Crossover. But they sound so close to me. I'd be thinking my opinion is all very subjective and I just have no clue to be honest.
I might prefer the Deluxe because I know it has a pearwood comb and look more traditional.
In my case, preferring the Deluxe over the Crossover is probably placebo effect.
I'm spending most of the time on French forums, where a handful of artists have a preference for a local customizer who's actually rather a real harmonica builder than a customizer, if we consider he's not only crafting combs, but beautiful coverplates as well.
According to owners, it blasts any stock harmonica, and it's priced like any harp of these categories. Of course, there is work behind it.
However, considering my modest skills, I stick to stock harmonicas.
Few years back I shown interests for an MB Classic, and compared to my others harps (including other MBs), I found it very good. Not as airtight, but still very good.
I pretty much like the spirit of the MB Classic when you imagine it's an harp that makes a decent gift to a little kid. It does the job pretty well, it's not overpriced, and it carries a tradition.
The Crossover is a modern product, it has stainless screws. The Deluxe has brass screws.
The Crossover has a bamboo comb, it's a great technical improvement, but bamboo always sound to me like a construction material for any asian good (like you'd see in asian restaurants), which of course differs from the US origins of the blues. "Crossover" is a modern term. You think immediately about an SUV built halfway to a 4WD, while "Deluxe" defines an high-class product since decades.
It's probably stupid, but I think the only point why I prefer the Deluxe over the MB is it feels more authentic.
It's one of the reason, I'd welcome any improvement coming on the MB Classic that would make it better out of the box, rather than thinking it's nearly obligatory to go for a custom instrument.
Now back to one of your points: you raise the concern Hohner plans to discontinue the MB Deluxe for the US market.
Have you ever thought to mail their customer service and tell them you think it's sad?
What would it be like if Hohner does receive other claims from customers? Who knows if they could change their mind...
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SuperBee
4288 posts
Nov 20, 2016
4:16 PM
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the 1896 comb was changed around the end of 2011.
it was news at the time.
the current comb is the same base as the deluxe comb but is not finished to the same degree. tines are not rounded or lacquered.
issue with coverplates is not to do with whiskers in my experience. it is not the seams of cover which grab my whiskers, it is the interface of cover and reedplate (or comb in case of sp20).
they could be rough on lip though. usually easily solved.
any sound differences between these models is not due to design but tuning, setup and quality control.
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Philosofy
779 posts
Nov 20, 2016
4:29 PM
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Do you have a link to the French builder?
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florida-trader
1028 posts
Nov 20, 2016
5:14 PM
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I believe Superbee is correct. Hohner started sealing the MB 1896 combs in 2011. Prior to then they were painted black on the back and sides and tan/orange at the front. Hohner makes their combs by starting with a long block of wood, then milling the channels for the reed slots and then slicing off the combs one at a time like slicing a loaf of bread. That's why on the old black and tan combs you never ever see any of the paint bleed over onto the flat surface of the comb. They are painted before they are cut. But when Hohner decided to seal the combs, the paint was no longer necessary. I beleive they are spayed with a coat or two of lacquer. The MB Deluxe and Crossover both tout their combs as being sprayed with "multiple coats" of lacquer. The nailed construction of the 1896 poses a slight challenge but once you have replaced the nails with screws on 400 or 500 of them, you start to get the hang of it. :)
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Sep 28, 2017 8:00 AM
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synopsis
3 posts
Nov 20, 2016
11:28 PM
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Hey guys,
Many thanks for the detailed answers, this is great! Seems like I hit the right place to ask.
I was used to see manufacturers like Seydel or Hohner making at leat an announcement when they did some improvements.
Couple of years back as well, Hohner managed to communicate about the "progressive series" that is supposed to be a greater quality control as far as I understood.
I'm just suprised they released new combs for the MB classic without making any ads out of it.
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florida-trader
1029 posts
Nov 21, 2016
7:23 AM
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When Hohner began sealing the 1896 combs they did make a big deal out of it. After making the Marine Band 1896 (and the 100's of other "commemorative" harmonicas based on the MB chssis)) for over 100 years with unsealed pear wood combs, you better beleive it was big news. But that was 5+ years ago so you may have missed it.
The Progressive Series is Hohner's effort to clarify the various families of harmonicas it makes. The original Special 20 was technically a Marine Band and was so stamped on the top cover. In the past decade, Hohner has introduced additinal variations of the Marine Band such as the Deluxe, the Crossover and the Tunderbird. They also had plans to come out with The Rocket which is a souped up version of the Special 20 and so they decided to redesign the covers and re-label some of their harps. So now in addition to the Marine Band Family of harps which include all those listed above, you have The Progressive Series, which includes the Special 20 (moved over from the Marine Band Family), The Rocket and the Golden Melody. The only changes made to the Special 20 are the stampings on the covers and the transtion from M2.0 to M1.6 reed plate screws. The Rocket is a new harp based on the SP20 that features a new comb and covers that are open in the back and vented on the bass end of the harp. The MS Series remains unchanged.
As far as quality, I don't know that the Progressive Sereis in and of itself represents an improvement in quality. I do think that the quality of Hohner reed plates has been getting better over the years but I do not believe that has anything to do with the introduction of the Progressive Series. It probably has more to do with competetion in the form of Suzuki and Seydel.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Sep 28, 2017 8:02 AM
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nacoran
9293 posts
Nov 21, 2016
12:14 PM
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Philosophy, I don't know if this is who he is talking about, but this guys name sounds French, and he builds some amazing looking harps. I've been following him a couple weeks on FB.
https://www.facebook.com/jeanluc.demoulin.9?fref=ts
And my brain is drawing a blank right now, but there are two other French ones, I think. One is a customizer who has been mentioned here before that's right on the tip of my tongue, and the other is (again, I think he's French) the one who has the little switches inside the harp so you can take the reed plates off without tools.
Can anyone help me out. My brain is refusing to turn over and I think I flooded it! :)
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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synopsis
5 posts
Nov 21, 2016
1:36 PM
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@Philosofy : Actually the french builder is "Raymond Brodur". He's a respected person in the french community.
Most of his very first customs had coverplates made of mammoth tooth or mammoth bones as well, at least very rare construction materials.
I'd rather think these material became difficult to find after years, because he's using now more wood types (but not only). But actually, you'll see more from his products on Google images than on his own website, because it's not showing much.
Apparently, they're very air-tight, thin, they're lacquered in a way it makes the sliding very easy, and are not catching facial hairs.
There is an handful of guys who can better than me tell you how they feel, because all I'm telling you here, I only read it.
The other guy @nacoran mentionned from the facebook link is just building for his own purposes, and do not sell any of them so far. He then makes hundreds pics of them, and publish them on the Internet. It's not a business.
There one more, named "Dortel". It's supposed to be similar to Brodur. But it came later.
The other one @nacoran is refering where the reedplates are hold without screws is called "Yonberg".
Just when I think about this name, I just think about yodel :-) But I'm not too far, because the factory is in the french alps, at some altitudes where you can see the emmental cheese growing on its own if you don't make any noise and carefully hide behind the edelweis.
This is a real factory. They also have an endorser program. They reshape reedplates from Seydel to build them into their harmonicas because they're asymmetric.
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