Gerry
56 posts
Jun 10, 2016
12:29 PM
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I've a bunch of different harps but would like to treat myself to a set (5 or 7)
I'm comfortable working on them and intend to put them into Paddy Richter, but cannot decide between the comfort and robustness of Session Steels or the ease of playing of GMs.
I also wondered about Olives. (I've never tried a Suzuki)
Would anyone like to share an opinion?
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schaef
48 posts
Jun 10, 2016
12:36 PM
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I have a set of 7 manji. Check for sale page
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Killa_Hertz
1565 posts
Jun 10, 2016
12:39 PM
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Man Harps Are Very Personal and Subjective. All BS aside you have to try them. I would highly recommend trying atleast 2 keys of a specific model before going all out on a set.
For example an A and a C. Because I find sometimes a Harp I love in low keys is not that great in high keys or Visa Versa. Anyhow that's just my 2 cents.
I do love the Seydels. And They Make Session Steel in Paddy Richter so you wouldn't have to make them yourself.
I have not played a GM, but my favorite models are.
Marine Band ( any variety)
Session Steel
1847
Manji
Each one has its own Pros And Cons.
The Olive is apparently just a Manji in full ET.
Anyhow, good luck in your search. 8^)
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florida-trader
930 posts
Jun 10, 2016
1:13 PM
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Olives are a combination of a ProMaster and a Manji. Manji reed plates. ProMaster covers - except they are green. Niec harp.
Gerry - PM me. I might have a solution for you.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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Glass Harp Full
135 posts
Jun 10, 2016
3:11 PM
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I have a set of six Suzuki Bluesmasters. Very nice harps, good price.
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FreeWilly
509 posts
Jun 10, 2016
3:42 PM
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Used to play GM. Did so for years. Switched to Olives this year. And I'm very happy!
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Killa_Hertz
1566 posts
Jun 10, 2016
7:22 PM
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Yes but the Olive is ET right?
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mlefree
685 posts
Jun 11, 2016
5:36 AM
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If Gerry intends to Paddy Richter his new harps, I assume that he's mostly interested in playing melodies. If that's the case, he'd be better off with ET. Especially true if he wants to play those melodies along with other instruments.
I have a full set of Suzuki Promasters that I half-valved under the tutelage of PT himself. I use them when I am playing melodies, which for me occurs most of the time playing along with guitars, fiddles, banjos, etc. I learned long ago that non-ET tunings stand out in such situations. Playing a flatted note played amidst a bunch of on-pitch ones can be downright embarrassing.
I hear criticism about Promaster combs not being flat and having factory saw marks. But my decade-old set has neither of those problems. The issue I do have with mine, as I've said many times, is the galvanic reaction between the reed plates and comb in the presence of my saliva. That isn't a big deal for me though because of the way I use the harps as melody instruments. I just lip purse in such situations anyway so it becomes a non-issue. I revert to my preferred tongue block embouchure with my other harps which are in Marine Band compromised tuning.
I also have one Seydel 1847 that I disliked until Michael Easton set it up for me (I am a poor steel reed tweaker myself). Now it is a fine instrument but I still prefer brass reeds for melodies.
I'd characterize the difference in playing brass vs. steel reeds -- for me -- as follows (and I readily admit the limitations of a sample of one, but at $100 a pop, I'm willing to settle for that). That 1847 is a race car with a 6-speed stick shift and a blown hemi motor where the Promasters are luxury road cars with automatic transmissions, plush leather seats and a smooth as butter motor. They'll both get you there but one you have to strap on a 5-point racing harness and actively ~drive~ where the other you lean back and let the car almost drive itself -- while you enjoy the scenery.
The Promasters are also half the price of the 1847s. I like 'em. A lot.
Michelle
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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
Last Edited by mlefree on Jun 11, 2016 5:44 AM
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nowmon
88 posts
Jun 11, 2016
8:01 AM
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Chicago blues masters used Marine Bands,and mostly Fender Amps.Jimi Hendrix used 99% Fender Strats, `nuff said.........
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dougharps
1242 posts
Jun 11, 2016
8:09 AM
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If your plan is to tune them to Paddy Richter for folk melodies, I agree with Michelle about ET or a mild compromise tuning, NOT Just Intonation. I am not a fan of ProMasters, however. Hohner harps tuned for blues would not be my choice to modify.
If you are buying harps already tuned to Paddy Richter, then the steel reeds could be a good thing. If you are tuning them yourself, I would suggest staying with brass. Steel takes a lot more effort to properly re-tune.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 11, 2016 8:15 AM
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Gerry
57 posts
Jun 11, 2016
9:30 AM
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Yes, it would be single note melody playing, so I think ET would be best. I worked on the Session Steel and I am used to stainless in a work capacity. In some ways it makes it easier to fine tune as you tend to file slower.
I think the issue for me is full length covers. I've got a bruise in my palm from my LO that I was playing last night.However, I also use a rack.
I hope that many intermediate players will identify with this, the reason I want a set is that I've built up a collection of completely seperate makes/models and would like to focus on one.I'd like to stick to one make for main harps and perhaps still experiment with the less common keys.
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hvyj
3048 posts
Jun 11, 2016
5:48 PM
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I have a set of 10 Olives with black anodized aluminum combs on them and they sound and play GREAT. I got the combs from Blue Moon and before I put them on, I sanded the reed plates. Sanding the plates is a necessity on Olives and Manjis because there are little raised protrusions around each screw hole that must be sanded or filed in order for the plates to sit flat on the comb. If that's done, you adjust the gaps, and you put a flat comb on them, Olives are terrific. I really like them.
FWIW, since I am a multi position player, I consider my "instrument" to be my entire set of harps. And so I tend to acquire sets of harps I like rather than individual harmonicas. But that's just me...
BUT they are NOT ET. I can't figure out what the tuning scheme is, but it's definitely not ET. I plan to have mine tuned to ET because that is what I use for performance and these harps are definitely good enough to gig with. IMHO they would be very suitable for re-tuning to Paddy Richter.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jun 11, 2016 5:54 PM
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Cotton
69 posts
Jun 11, 2016
8:50 PM
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I have a set of of stock Olives, I really like them.
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Piro39
110 posts
Jun 12, 2016
8:12 AM
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I just love the blues masters Marine Band snobbery trip. The Marine Band was basically the only choice back then and I think they cost about 50 cents. I did gigs with Jr Wells and he committed a major blues sin, he was playing Lee Oscars and I've seen Sonny Terry playing Golden Melodies, how sinful. A harmonica is a musical instrument and guess what you can actually tune it any way that you like.
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Killa_Hertz
1571 posts
Jun 12, 2016
8:47 AM
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Piro. While i agree with you. I still think it's pretty impressive to see people using stock straight up OOTB Marine Bands and sound amazing. I witnessed this in person last night. And was blown away. I asked "what do you do to your harps?" He says " Nothing that's cheating." Blown away.
I was also lucky enough to watch and meet Steve Guyer last night. Blown away doesn't even do that justice. The Man is amazing. Some of the things he did that went right over the heads of those in the audience. Except for the few harp players in the crowd that looked at eachother and just shook our heads. He also plays stock marine bands. Just saying.
I may have just changed my religion last night.
Michele
I do find it suprising that your experience is basically oposite of mine. I do have quite a few seydel harps though. But only one promaster.(which i despise) But i do have Manjis, and like hvjy i find that they really only shine with a new comb. But the point is, i still feel that suzuki reeds take a bit of "intentional playing"? .. i guess you could call it. While i would describe seydel reeds more like a slightly beefier hohner reed. A happy medium between suzuki and hohner perhaps.
But that's just me.
I would highly recommend trying a session steel. That is if you like recessed harps. They are a real great playing harp and you dont have to mess with combs and airtightness and all that.
(Oh yes, and theyre not $100)
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 12, 2016 8:51 AM
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Piro39
111 posts
Jun 12, 2016
9:22 AM
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Killa Hertz These players sound amazing on stock Marine Bands because they are great players and the MB is their instrument of choice and I know that they will sound equally as good on other models.
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Gerry
58 posts
Jun 12, 2016
12:20 PM
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I liken MBs to telecasters. They are the original workhorses with unique sounds. I'd love to play them but they just don't seem to suit me.
I haven't picked up a Sp20 in over 20 years. I've a couple of the old Proharps with the aluminium cps, which I love.
A plan is beginning to form...
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Thievin' Heathen
766 posts
Jun 12, 2016
12:46 PM
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"A plan is beginning to form..."
A Harmonica Player with a plan? If true, it sounds dangerous.
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ME.HarpDoc
163 posts
Jun 12, 2016
5:57 PM
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Gerry, FWIW I find one of the most comfortable harps in my arsenal is a Suzuki Hammond I have in Bb. Full length covers, aluminum comb, ET tuning and although it;s been said that it's basically a Promaster, it's also been said it doesn't seem to have the perceived drawbacks of the Promaster.
I'm sure I have no where the experience you have but based on what you're looking for, it might be worth looking at. I'm sure Tom Halcheck or Rockin Ron's can help in your decision.
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Killa_Hertz
1572 posts
Jun 12, 2016
6:24 PM
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Theivin ... lol.
Piro ... im sure your right. That wasn't what i was getting at. I know what your point was and i agree.
I just ment, to me personally that was a big statement. Ive spent a good bit of time trying to make harps play better and tweaking them. Trying to learn the "secrets" to great playing harps.
And this guy who had my jaw on the FLOOR not only didnt play custom harps, not only didnt tweak his harps, but just brushed the whole thing of like "Nah, Thats Cheatin'."
Damn!
Dude ... Steve Guyer was hitting SOLID 2draw Whole Step Bends on a Low C, like I've never heard. That's one of many things he did that had me just staring .... amazed. He had killer vibrato and tone even at super low volume. At low volume his vibrato was still waving through the whole room. The pulsating whoom whoom whoom. I'm sorry i know this is way OT, but ... it was awesome.
Last night was the blues stroll in Media PA. BTW. Lots of good players there. Of all kinds.
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isaacullah
3210 posts
Jun 13, 2016
8:30 AM
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Gerry: I agree with your idea that after a while it is better to stop experimenting with different brands and models and just focus on one that fits you and your playing style. For me, it was the Hohner Special 20. I bought a 5-harp set last year, tuned them to Easy Third, and have been playing them almost exclusively since then. The consistent playing experience alliws me to concentrate on making music, not adjusting to each harp as I pick it up.
It sounds to me.like you've already decided that the Session Steel is your harp of choice. They are excellent harmonicas! So, my advice is just go for it! Start with a 5 harp set, and then add on to it as needed. Plus, can't you get Paddy Richter tuning straight from Seydel? Perhaps a little more expensive, but could be worth it since it gets you playing that much quicker!
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
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Gerry
59 posts
Jun 13, 2016
10:29 AM
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I was just looking at the Rocket Amp thinking that was in the ball park as well. But sense is prevailing (I think).It's a costly, time consuming process trying to demo every harp. Youtube only gets you so far.
A set of Session Steels is plenty of bang for buck.
I also need what I think will be a weird tuning for a particular tune but I need to investigate that.
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barbequebob
3235 posts
Jun 13, 2016
11:50 AM
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@hvyj -- The tuning that the Manji and Olive models uses is a compromise tuning where holes 2 blow, 5 blow, 8 blow, 3 draw and 7 draw is tuned 5 cents flat and the rest is tuned at ET.
In fact, I already have these things listed on this site and you can go to this link to see it:
Harmonica Tunings
When you see the page, you'll see a listing in a PDF format that you should be able to download for free.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Jun 13, 2016 11:51 AM
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Goldbrick
1503 posts
Jun 13, 2016
1:08 PM
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Steve is a good buddy of my brother and he could make tissue paper and a comb sound good.
BTW he has a very good instructional video available
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hvyj
3099 posts
Aug 08, 2016
1:37 PM
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Hammonds are better than Promasters IMHO and have a darker tone.
I just got a Seydel 1847 Noble. Never played a Seydel before. WOW!!! Expensive, but you definitely get what you pay for. Without question the absolute best OOB harp I've ever played, but I like aluminum combs anyway. I ordered it tuned to A442 ET and was able to get unvented 1847 Silver covers on it. Very impressive IMHO. Interestingly, the timbre is a lot like my Olives with aluminum combs.
To be fair, I do have a Suzuki Fabulous which may play with better precision than the Noble, but it is A LOT more expensive and all around I like the Noble better anyway.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 08, 2016 1:51 PM
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