Gabriel
1 post
Jun 08, 2016
10:37 AM
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*Your
DANG IT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd9W66Y1jts
What do you guys think of this?
Don't try to make me feel good, be honest.
Sincerely,
Gabriel (Harmonica Guy) Ryan
Last Edited by Gabriel on Jun 08, 2016 10:38 AM
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JInx
1210 posts
Jun 08, 2016
2:10 PM
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Stop!
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SuperBee
3830 posts
Jun 08, 2016
2:29 PM
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Yep, for the song, if you just played during the break, it would have a lot more impact.
At the moment it just seems like the singing stops...so the break is kind of a let down...it's like the song just lost something.
Whereas if you didn't play constantly in competition with the vocalist and played when he stopped, it would be a change of voice and potentially add interest to the song.
It's a pretty dull song so arrangement is important. It needs all the help it can get to retain interest.
Maybe you could find a way to play while the guy sings...he must draw breath between lines so you could maybe find a spot for a fill...just to have your voice present...and then play in the break...
Just don't play that melody in competition with the vocal. It's distracting.
And I think you went off-key in the break...it was a good idea to kick away from the repetition there, But work on it to find some more fitting notes. That's only my feeling about it. if you like what you did, that's what counts.
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Littoral
1397 posts
Jun 08, 2016
2:30 PM
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IMHO - The high end of the harp would have been nice for a solo but as accompaniment it didn't serve the song. Playing over the vocals is dangerous territory. This version demonstrated why. I thought it was all about you. There's plenty of good technique in there though.
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nacoran
9091 posts
Jun 08, 2016
3:04 PM
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Yeah, you shouldn't double the vocals on that one. It works as a solo and other than that the playing is fine.
There are three ways to handle it-
Find something to play under it that adds more to it (you did better at the end.
The second way is to just sit out except for the solo.
The third way is to turn it into an instrumental. It's a recognizable melody you could do that, but only if you want to go that direction.
I had a dispute with my band once. I had a song I loved playing the melody on and I brought it to the band and said I wanted to do it as an instrumental, but the singer liked it and wanted to sing it, and then complained that he didn't like me playing the melody. We ended up not doing the song.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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didjcripey
1045 posts
Jun 08, 2016
3:20 PM
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I reckon you play well.. but...
don't play the melody over the vocals.
If you must play over the vocals (an often contentious issue) play something different... counter melodies, fills, chords and octaves... don't just duplicate the singer
Leaving space and playing silence means you have more impact when you do kick it
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by didjcripey on Jun 08, 2016 3:21 PM
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BronzeWailer
1884 posts
Jun 08, 2016
3:37 PM
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This will sound like an echo chamber but I agree with the advice above.
My harp teacher laid down some principals that I try to follow.
Don't play over the vocals because the harp is close to the human voice, so you are competing.
Don't solo all the time, because when it comes time for your solo, you'll have nothing left to say.
He would also generally sit out the first verse. This means the guitar/vocals have a chance to shine on their own and it is more impactful when you come in.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Killa_Hertz
1560 posts
Jun 08, 2016
6:50 PM
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Nice.
At first it was odd because the original doesn't have harp. But after about a minute, i got used to it. The high end playing was good.
I was wondering if you experimented with low end chords over the vocals and perhaps high end playing in the breaks.
Also i wondered about using a bit of amped sound, just a touch. Or possibly different effects. Long held chords with chorus behind the playing.
Also maybe a kick drum like adam does would be awesome.
I realise these things would entirely change what your going for here, but ....
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nacoran
9092 posts
Jun 08, 2016
7:51 PM
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To add on what Bronzewailer said, I think because it's close to what the human voice sounds like it is possible, if you are careful, to play something near the melody, if you treat it as a harmony. It sounds a lot like a voice, but if you do exactly the same it's different enough that it interferes.
You can also play it in a different octave than the vocals which will help a little (it works better if you go lower and quiet, I think). Or you can move your timing off from the melody to make it like an echo, kind of like a quick call and response (although you have to make sure you are far enough behind that it doesn't sound like you are just falling behind the beat.)
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Baker
435 posts
Jun 09, 2016
6:16 AM
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I agree with all the comments above. Following the melody doesn't work and for me is symptomatic of the larger problem, which is a lack of dynamics. Laying off the melody and playing fills etc will help with this.
You both need to think about what you're doing and how you are delivering the song. Your guitar player starts off strumming away and then starts singing, the harp comes in at the same time and then, apart from your instrumental break in the middle, it's pretty much the same all the way through.
A song like this, which is fairly monotonous in it's construction needs to have lots of dynamics to make it interesting. If you listen to the original it starts of quietly, just the vocals and guitar, then some strings coming in, then drums and more guitar, when it hits the chorus it gets bigger again, then when the chorus finishes there's a pause, some empty space before it kicks back in again at a quieter level and so on... This changing in the dynamics (up/down – quiet/loud) is what makes the original song work. Keeping everything at the same level all the way through kind of wears out the listener. I was getting bored by the time the solo came in and that was not even half way though...
... which brings me to my second point. I think you guys may have played too many verses. Again in the original they do two or three verse/chorus then repeat the chorus a coupe of times at the end and then out. Short and sweet. Again this is another way of keeping interest, don't let the song go on too long just because you enjoy playing it. If you leave the audience feeling slightly short changed then they're going to love it, if you give then too much they'll get bored.
One last thing to think about on this song specifically if the "swing", where the notes land relative to the beat. The original has a kind of laid back arrogance :) which is what Oasis were all about. This is achieved by playing slightly behind the beat. It's not dragging but it feels more layed back. In your version it feels slightly urgent. It sounds like you're trying to propel the song forward to quickly. Lay back, let the song come.
I hope this essay is some use :)
As has been said above there's is definitely some good technique and chops going on. I thought the solo was great and worked really well.
Being able to play the notes, and working up a good arrangement are two very different things. If you think a bit more about how you are going to deliver the song, work on it, how it moves and how it moves other people then you'll have great show.
Last Edited by Baker on Jun 09, 2016 6:21 AM
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Martin
1024 posts
Jun 09, 2016
7:22 AM
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@Jinx: Your comment is the epitome of what´s called "constructive criticism"!
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ridge
671 posts
Jun 09, 2016
8:30 AM
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I won't repeat what's already been said, but I have a few more observations
1. Low End Intonation: Can't really tell from the clip, but going on this alone I would say spend some more time on your intonation on the low end, specifically 3 draw. You could also work on 5 draw to smooth it out. I'll try to post a video or something to illustrate this point later.
2. Breathing: Kind of goes with the above. Sometimes your tone is a little grating on certain holes of the harmonica. More so on the middle to low end. I'm guessing you're breathing in and out of the harmonica instead of through the harmonica.
Other thoughts - You're what I would consider a product of the Internet Harmonica generation. What I mean by this is that I would wager that a) You're under 20 and b) you've learned harmonica primarily from the Internet.
You have a variety of techniques (octaves, bends, overblows) in your arsenal and appear to have comfort moving over the instrument. You also know which notes to play and what not to play. The byproduct of this knowledge and comfort is that you haven't learned how not to play.
This isn't really problematic (yet) since you sound alright and have decent time which kind of makes up for trampling all over the song.
I do hope you keep playing and posting. It will be interesting to see your progress!
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Ridge's YouTube
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rogonzab
958 posts
Jun 09, 2016
8:54 AM
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"Being able to play the notes, and working up a good arrangement are two very different things"
+1
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
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Gabriel
3 posts
Jun 09, 2016
10:59 AM
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Thank you all for your input.
The vocalist asked me to accompany him with the melody, next time I'll ask just to put fills. And yes, I am 20 exactly and have learned a lot if not all of my technique from the internet. However, my soloing was taught to me by a well rounded trombonist.
Last Edited by Gabriel on Jun 09, 2016 11:03 AM
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Gabriel
4 posts
Jun 09, 2016
11:02 AM
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Also I am notorious for using "resolving" notes. If you listen closely I added a 4 overblow, and the 6 draw bend. Neither one of these notes are in the scale, but I find them important to my playing style
“It’s not the note you play that’s the wrong note – it’s the note you play afterwards that makes it right or wrong.”
—Miles Davis
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BronzeWailer
1886 posts
Jun 09, 2016
2:29 PM
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Good on you Gabriel for having the guts to put it out there and ask for feedback and taking the comments in. I'll second what ridge said. It would be nice to see your progress. Cheers!
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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