Tonight I was playing with a very good singer, songwriter, folk guitar strummer who was very graciously helping me sound real good. He had his guitar tuned down a 1/2 step, but he was doing the transposing. He played a couple of songs in Dm and I was using a G. Why was this working?
Be very careful dealing with minors. You can land in a whole lotta trouble.
Miners - on the other hand - just give them a flashlight and a pick ax and let them go to work!
G harp is second position for music in D. You can play minor in 2nd position, though there are other positions some might choose - it can certainly be done and done well. ---------- *************************************************** /Greg
I did not think it was quite that simple. I must be over-thinking this, I'm looking at the circle of 5ths and relative minors, with Dm over there with 1 flat (Bb)in the key of F while Em is the relative minor in G with an F#. So, I'm thinking it must be in the bent notes.
I will take the 2nd position explanation. Expanding on that, I guess my F# will work in C#m? If this position transposition thing works, would 3rd be the preferred?
I have forever been cheating with Lee Oskars. I think I need to watch Moon Cat's video(s) again.
Last Edited by Thievin' Heathen on Feb 02, 2016 10:31 PM
Bend the Draw 3 down a semitone. That lowered note is the first thing that defines a minor scale.
Up an octave, though, you can't bend Draw 7 down (unless you have a half-valved harp, in which case go right ahead), and that note will sound pretty sour. If you can overblow Blow 6, that note again is the defining minor note.
The other "wrong" notes to watch out for are Blow 2, 5, and 8 (although 8 can be bent down to make it minor). =========== Winslow
I got hung up on that relative minor on the inner ring on the circle of fifths until someone on the board put me right. You can ignore that inner ring for what you're looking for. If your mate was playing the song in D major or D minor you still go to the D on the outer ring in both instances and choose a D harp for 1st position, a G Harp as you used for your song in 2nd position, a C harp for 3rd position etc., going counter clockwise round the circle of 5th's.
You are correct in using a F# harp for the song key of C#m if you want to play 2nd position. 3rd may well be a good option and also 5th as Nacoran pointed out.
I usually start with my default 2nd position in working out a song by ear and make a note of what notes I'm using and if it gets too tricky I pick up a harp for 3rd position and try to play the same notes to see if it sounds better.
I wrote a post recently Choosing harps for Minor Songs about using different harp positions for playing a small riff from the minor blues song 'the thrill is gone' using the above method.
Hope this helps.
Last Edited by Grey Owl on Feb 03, 2016 4:35 AM
The blues scale is itself a minor scale so it fits over minor chords. You were playing Dmin notes while the band was playing Dmin chords so they were good sounding notes.
It's not as useful in a live situation, but when I'm keying songs to practice I try the harp for 3rd and 5th to see which one seems to lay out easier. I got hung up on the relative minor thing too (and sadly, spread a fair amount of bad information about it until someone set me straight). It's really useful for piano, and the circle is, still, I think, the easiest way to count out positions but for harpers one without the relative minor listed is probably more useful.
The problem with using relative minors in he circle of fifths is that it puts you into fourth position, which is awkward int that its home note in the first octave is a double bend on Draw 3 (therefore not terribly stable, and hard to keep in tune) and none of the other draw notes form part of the main chord of the key. The scale, though, is a full natural minor (no avoid notes that are major and therefore clashy against minor chords), and it's very fluid to play, especially in the upper 2/3 of the harp's range. =========== Winslow
For diatonic I use 2nd, 3rd, or occasionally 5th, depending on the song. I particularly like 5th for songs in which the chords go from major to minor, such as a C on G major / E minor songs. Occasionally I use 2nd & 3rd both in a song to facilitate different lines in solos. I would only choose to play diatonic in 4th if my harp for 3rd had a problem and 2nd didn't seem right.
I often choose 4th for minor with chromatic harmonica on minor songs for which I don't prefer 3rd: usually soul blues or jazz blues songs that would not benefit from the fat blues chords in 3rd and that respond well to slide ornaments in 4th. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Feb 03, 2016 11:55 AM
I got in a discussion once with a guy about the best way to limbo. I told him that I had A sharp idea on the subject- that you had to pretend you were shorter than the pole. He said the key was to B flat.
After a little more discussion we realized that basically that was the same thing.
Bear in mind that, if you haven't taken the time to learn some music theory, that there's more than one minor scale and using 2nd position, if you're not good at overblows and understanding music theory, you can get embarrassed and lack of knowledge exposed quickly.
If you use 3rd position, it also means that you may need to get ALL of your bends and overblows dead on right if the tune requires you to play in the harmonic and/or melodic minor scale and you can get quickly caught hitting some major clams in a hurry as well. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Minor keys are not a one size (position) fits all proposition. As BBQBob was telling us, there are different KINDS of minors, each having its own scale. So you select a position that puts you in a mode where you have most of the notes you need for that particular scale without having to bend. Sometimes more than one position fits that criteria, in which event you select the one that phrases the best for the particular tune. Sometimes, like on MISS YOU or LONG TRAIN RUNNING, second position works so long as you are able to consistently bend to properly intonate the minor third.
Fourth position is a straight harp position because you play using the key the harp is in. A C harp puts u in C major or A natural minor since the C major scale has the same notes as the A natural minor scale. If u understand scales, multiple position playing is not difficult. BUT you cannot bend randomly in the higher positions because you will throw yourself out of key, nor can you do the choo-choo train thing because you don't always have chords available that work in the key u may be playing in. But if u understand scales it ain't difficult to do.
