This is not a question about which brand of harp players prefer. It is a bit more specific than that. My problem is that I seem to be getting through harps key A too often. To be more exact the same failure occurs -which is not getting the right note (or no note) on draw of hole 6. More often than not its getting the same note for draw as it is for blow. I'm on my third harp key A within 12 months of not so heavy use. Harps I've been using are Hohner Special 20 and Marine Band de luxe.I've tried cleaning both harps with a/ white vinegar and b/ a mix of bicarb of soda and white vinegar as suggested by a couple of players on websites. But this doesn't make any difference. So is it something wrong with my technique, or is it a characteristic of the harps? Has anyone else experienced this? Do I need to change the harp make? How often do people clean harps as a routine? Or is this a false economy?
I have money in my pocket that you actually mean draw 5. Check to see and repost. The only time I see reeds fail on hole 6 is when players put valves on the draw slot, so that they can blow bend 6.
It may come down to two choices- don't play so hard or keep replacing them!
I've been playing for a few years now and I've only blown two reeds- one time I was trying to play without an amp at my friends house when the guitar and bass were amped, and the other time I had a harp that I deliberately wanted to push to see just what it took to blow it out.
Cleaning the harp may be hygienic but it's not likely to impact the longevity of a harp much. One important thing I learned is that you can play a with a lot less force if you back everything down. If you've got an amp, let it do the heavy lifting on volume, and start quieter on the quiet parts to leave yourself room to get louder without getting to the breaking point.
Be careful not to bend notes below the floor. That seems to fatigue them faster, but mostly it's about playing volume. There are some very good players who play really hard and get great tone, but there are also some great players who manage to get great tone playing softly and letting the amp do the volume work. ---------- Nate Facebook Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
Actually cleaning harmonicas helps prevent rusting and corrosion and also helps keep harps in tune because when even the tiniest bit of saliva and/or dried on layers of dead skin builds up, it eventually alters the pitch of the reed (and this happens VERY gradually so that it takes a long time to really notice it happening) and where on the reed is important. If it dries on the free end of the reed, the pitch will drop and if it's on the riveted end, the reed will get sharp and I recommend cleaning them first before attempting to retune so that you avoid unnecessary removal of metal while tuning them.
However, the bottom line for you, Kenukan, is CLEARLY in your playing technique and it's obvious that you play far too hard than you think you (AKA using way too much breath force) and that's flat out horrible playing technique which not only destroys harmonicas really quick, but also makes you sound like a really crappy harp player as well. Gear is NEVER gonna make up for that one bit and it doesn't matter what make/model/brand of harmonica you buy because until you correct that problem RIGHT NOW, you will never be rid of that problem, EVER. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Hi Ken. Clean your harps by all means. Be careful with that vinegar though, dilute it. It's acid, and it can eat the brass. I use water. I did a job last year for a fellow who habitually broke the 7 blow reed. He sent me 19 harps to repair, 13 of which were G harps needing 7 blow replaced. It was all about one song he played and how he played it. That's what's wrong with your harps by the way. They're not dirty or out of tune. The draw reed is broken. Commonly it's the 5 draw, or the 4 draw. Quite common also is the 4 blow. If you're wrecking the 6 draw, it will be down to a particular song where you are playing that reed hard and bending the whatsits out of it. 5 draw, if your just playing hard all over the harp, that'll be the one which goes first. Anyway, solution is the same, don't play so loud and when you bend, try to bend in tune. If you must bend flat, don't do it so loud... Different brand of harp will still break if you treat it that way, but some folk say Lee Oskar last longer. Some say Seydel steel reeds are tougher. But the hohner marine band and sp20 have been doing the job for lots of harp players for a long time...
Kenyukan, I think narcoran has a good point and he posted it in a helpful way.
Barbequebob seems to take the nuclear method and s---t all over an infrequent/new poster like yourself Same message, just not very kind. Some like his honesty, I just find that approach less helpful. He's not always right, but never in doubt!
As a newbie myself, I appreciate constructive advice and not outright criticism.
I killed many draw 4 and 5 reeds for many years. Finally I learned more about focus as opposed to force when playing. Thanks to guys like barbeque bob who stress using the right amount of air and no more! Taking some breathing/voice lessons helped tremendously. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
We all blew up harmonicas when learning to play. I threw some away but sent many for repair as well. I still blow out a reed once in while- last year I broke a 2-draw on a Bb marine band and a 4-draw on an Spiers stage one A-harp. This was the very first 2 draw I had fail and I don't really think it was 100% my fault - I mean have you ever seen a 2-draw go flat and fail? The A harp blew out when I was sitting in with an insanely loud rock blues band and couldn't hear anything- 100% my fault.
BBQ Bob is right about breath control. But then again I HAVE heard players who sound awesome and who also play really HARD and beat the crap out of their harps. Not many to be sure but they're out there.
I clean my harps with cheap vodka- the $6/fifth stuff from the grocery store. It's food safe and is does an awesome job. I clean them about once every two weeks but wipe them down after every session.
Yes, I thought Nate's reply was great!) Still waiting to hear back from the OP . . . As far as cleaning, I find really hot water to be best, unless there is some sort of foreign matter involved. For example, I just had to use Goof Off to remove the residue from the back of a chromatic comb--some folks like to put shiny stickers on them, as a stage device--another example, people use chapstick to seal the mouthpiece on the XB-40--once it is all dried up, it's tough to remove.
Yes I'm an infrequent poster on this site and relatively new to playing harp. So picking up tips from you guys is really appreciated. I have to say that the thread of your replies (forcefully made or otherwise -its all useful)is entirely consistent with another problem that I posted a while back. This was trying to compete with loud guitarists!! I get the message. Thanks to all.
@kenyukan -- Notes can be bent in 1/2 step increments to within 1/2 step of the lowest note in the hole. Let's take for example, in a key of C harmonica, in hole 3, the blow note is G and the draw note is B. The very first bend, a half step bend, the note is B-flat. The next bend, 1/2 step downward is A. The very next and LAST bend is A-flat.
In hole 5 on a key of C harmonica, the highest note in the hole is F and the lowest is E. However, these two notes are only 1/2 step apart, meaning that ther is NO 1/2 step bend at all, maybe just 1/4 step and what you're doing is attempting to bend WAY PAST THE FLOOR of the bend, and because you're clearly guilty of playing with too much breath force, you'r putting a HUGE amount of unneeded stress and the reed and what you're causing are microscopic cracks in the reed metal AKA stress fractures, and once this happens, the problem NEVER gets better, only MUCH worse and the reed will be unable to be returned back to pitch and will get blown out and you risk the reed breaking apart completely and swallowing the reed, and you risk getting a very serious infection from doing that.
Trying to compete with a loud guitar player by using more breath force reinforces what I've said will happen from what you're doing and I'm gonna be brutally honest with you and call it out for exactly what doing that is, and that's straight up macho stupidity and the only thing you accomplish are frequently blown out harps(or more precisely, damaged harps), and you always wind up sounding really horrible 24/7.
As you're new to the instrument, getting breathing lessons from a vocal teacher will pay off plenty because along with breathing exercises, they also teach you something very important, and that's relaxation techniques and most players who play too hard are usually very uptight on the bandstand and that compounds the problem a 100 times over. From learning breathing lessons from a vocal coach, you will learn how to be able to project your sound better and get more volume while using THE VERY LEAST amount of breath force necessary to accomplish that.
I also suggest you study a chart that has for all the different key harmonicas, a notation chart that shows where ALL available notes are, which will include the unbent notes, bent as well as overblow notes, plus learn basic music theory, especially the scales because that will ensure that you know better than to bend past what's actually available on the instrument and along with that, help make you a much better player along with learning to keep your time straight, which is something far too many harp players NEED to learn.
When you work more on your technique and it gradually gets better, you'll find yourself blowing out FAR fewer harps all the time. Such notation charts are easily available all over the internet so you shouldn't have any problems at all finding it and then make sure you commit that to memory.
With better overall playing technique, your harps should REALISTICALLY last your for a MINIMUM of 1-2 years, and even 5 years and longer is not out of the realm of possibility regardless of the brand/model/manufacturer. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I would say the same of that remark itself, no matter the renown and expertise of the speaker. It comes off as a guy who's trying to build himself up by making others feel small. Being a master harp player does not give one carte blanche to speak in a cretinous manner.
Just being "brutally honest" here. (Edited: I've seen people called out in violation of the Forum creed for similar uncouth behavior/derogatory comments).
Last Edited by Rontana on Jan 21, 2016 6:51 AM
Draw 5 is the only reed I ever broke and the answer is so simple. Draw 5 does not have the same bends available as the 4 and 6 holes do but I was trying to make it bend anyway. I did not know that until I got on this forum. Haven't broke a reed since.(thanks to BBQ Bob and his breath force advise)
Last Edited by Lmbrjak on Jan 22, 2016 7:23 PM
5 draw...well, it does bend and its a useful sound...but you have to take care because its vulnerable...
if you'd like to hear it used...the most well-known example is in the 3rd chorus of Juke...LW picks up to the 5 draw....wails it and then begins his run back down to the 2 draw with a bend of the 5 draw...
my belief as to why it breaks so commonly is about the well known and commonly used in lieu of an inspired idea, 4/5 shake...folks will play this wailing loud, and then bend the 4 down...sounds great and bluesy..but i believe the 5 is often getting involved in that big wailing loud bend
but personally i have copped Bob's advice and seen it dished out many times and i do believe its a service he is performing here...making the point forcefully...semantics aside...i do think its helped me take it seriously
To be fair, 5 draw can be bent and it is a useful sound, but if you bend below the note on 5 blow, you will break a reed. So once you know what you are doing, you will break fewer reeds.
Breaking reeds comes with the territory, yes you can reduce that with technique but pros blow them out too. You can have them repaired if you hung on to them instead of shelling out $$ for new harps. ---------- www.spiersharmonicas.com
I love players who play too hard! They've been the source of most of my "donor" harmonicas. I especially love players who blow out reeds on virtually new harps. When I see a player abusing his harmonicas I always ask what they do with their "casualties."
An essential part of the solution is using a tuner while you play. But beyond training your ear to recognize the proper pitches of your bends, you can also learn the ~feel~ of when you are over-stressing the reeds by passing below their basement pitch. Yes, by combining your auditory feedback with the muscle memory of your jaw position and oral cavity shape at that moment when you hit that basement, you can learn to "sense" when to stop applying pressure. It sounds trite but you can "become one with your instrument" and learn to incorporate it into your full sensory system just like you do with any part of your body. The human brain is a marvelously adaptable organ.
Today's new players are very fortunate for all the amazing web sites, videos and software tools that are now available. Used sensibly they can significantly flatten out the otherwise steep earning curve encountered in becoming competent harmonica player.
One of those "apps" is Harp Ninja by our own Paul Cohen (Komuso Tokugawa). It's far more than a visual tuner. It provides a number of forms of visual feedback to add to your sensory arsenal to help you in doing a "vulcan mind meld" as your "grok" your axe.
There are several "Dojos" that involve different functions or displays such as the Circle of 5ths and Melody Dojos. But the main thrust of the program is the tuning Dojo.
Essentially, the tuning Dojo is a mini tuner that jumps over the correct note in its display of a harmonica and the available notes over each hole. You can preset the sensitivity of the tuner display to 5 or 10 cents and then you can see when you come within that 5 or 10 cent range of your target note. The tuner bar changes color as it indicates whether you're flat or sharp.
At it's essence it's a digital tuner but the display provides sensory feedback that can help you grok. And it's fun!
Dave Barrett showed me Harp Ninja at last year's SPAH. At first I poo-pooed it because I though I had my bends down. Not! Quite an eye opener. I bought Harp Ninja as soon as I got home and I'm enjoying using it as I shore up my bending accuracy "game" style.
$29.99 (Windows version).
Michelle
PS: Paul, I'll take that Sushi dinner now. ;^) Seriously, I'm just a satisfied customer.
---------- SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
Last Edited by mlefree on Jan 23, 2016 7:38 AM
