Killa_Hertz
57 posts
Dec 31, 2015
1:47 PM
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Ofcourse everybody wants that perfect acoustic tone. I hate to bring up topics that probably have been beat to death. But Im doing it anyway.
I record myself frequently when i come up with licks as a way to not forget them. This also helps me keep track of my playing progress a bit.
I also do most of my playing in the car and at a low volume. Ive noticed my tone becoming a bit nasally. I think it may be partially due to the fact that i keep my tongue in what i guess could best be described as the "relaxed bent position" if that makes sence. What i mean is my tounge kind of to the rear and raised a bit, but relaxed. So if i just slightly tighten my tounge im in the bent position. Ofcourse i do adjust forward or rear based on which bend im goin for or to thin out notes. But i feel like this tongue position is blocking my nasal passages some, similar to holding your nose while talking.
I recently read a short article on richard sleighs site in which he describes his T.R.Y. method. I ve been trying to incorporate this into my playing.
So what im asking is
Is this tongue position similar to how most people play?
What can I work on as far as mouth,tongue,throat,body position?
Does anyone have any good tone exercises or know of any good tone lessons i could check out?
Any other information or advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 31, 2015 7:45 PM
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Barley Nectar
1017 posts
Dec 31, 2015
7:13 PM
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My advice, Stand up!
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jbone
2117 posts
Dec 31, 2015
10:26 PM
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I played standing for years and still do occasionally. Since my duo partner must sit I do the same these days. I know enough and have worked enough to still get good tone sitting down.
What helped me more than anything was finding my depth via voice/breathing lessons. This not only helped my singing but vastly improved my playing harp. Once you switch from throat to diaphragm playing you find real depth and that's a good part of where tone originates. The exercises are hard at first but show their value pretty quickly.
I'm with Barley too, starting out you will do better to stand straight when you practice.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTwvU-EN1Q
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Killa_Hertz
59 posts
Jan 01, 2016
12:11 AM
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Yea its kinda hard standing in the car, but ill try it when I'm at home.
It seems that all the things ive read tend to say the same generic things when it comes to tone. But I actually found two sites that are pretty good.
This one gives a pretty good breakdown and some exercises. Alot of this stuff ive read 100 times, but sometimes you just hear something a different way i guess and it just makes sense and all the other things youve been told kinda come together idk.
http://www.harpgear.com/tone.html
This site is pretty basic, with kind of the same old description. But the one thing that really helped was the "something hot in your mouth" analogy.
http://www.harpsurgery.com/how-to-play/tone/
Idk check em out and see if u guys think there on base or not.
Im just trying to find the right things to put into practice before i develop bad habits.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Blowhead9
17 posts
Jan 01, 2016
8:03 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmwmEWQvps
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For every moment of triumph, every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. HST
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Blowhead9
18 posts
Jan 01, 2016
8:14 AM
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Lee disabled embedding for this video. I find quite a few of these tone vids on youtube. David Barrett has at least one posted. Is this what you're looking for?
https://youtu.be/HUmwmEWQvps
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For every moment of triumph, every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. HST
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Killa_Hertz
60 posts
Jan 01, 2016
9:35 AM
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No I've seen all lee's videos. And they are great. I liked the window fogging analogy. Idk like i said, sometimes you just gotta have something explained a different way.
But the two sites i posted above really helped paint a fuller picture for me. I wish you could make stickies on this forum. Because there pretty good sites.
But thanks yall.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Killa_Hertz
61 posts
Jan 01, 2016
11:51 AM
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Sorry to keep this going, but I've started messing with changing my mouth shape and dropping my jaw and such to getabetter tone. I have found that sometimes I'm chokin the hell out of the reeds. Is this normal? Should i adjust my reeds to accommodate this or am i putting to much pressure on them by not doing it right? I know it's hard to say without seeing what's actually goin on. ... but any opinions here would be appreciated. It seems that I'm sometimes bending the note without the use of my tongue at all. I'm holding my tongue flat. Just the added pressure of my jaw dropped chokes the reed. The way the reeds are set i can't choke them if i play normal and bend it hard and try to choke it. So hope that helps paint the picture of what i got goin on.
Also I'm trying to figure out how your supposed to keep everything open like this and control bends at the same time. For instance the 3draw bends especially, my teeth just about touch when playing them. Kind of the oposite of the big mouth cavity idea right? So any points in the right direction would be great.
Thanks in advance.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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nacoran
8856 posts
Jan 01, 2016
2:20 PM
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Most of the things that you'd do to sing with good support will help tone too. If you are sitting, don't slouch, breathe from your diaphragm,...
Generally speaking the farther you get the harp into your mouth the better your tone. Practice at different playing volumes. Work on your cupping a lot, both with and without a mic.
When you are talking about not bending with your tongue, remember your tongue goes back a lot farther than the part that we normally think about. When I'm lowering my jaw on a bend I'm also pushing down with the back of my tongue (at least that's what it feels like).
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Nate
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Killa_Hertz
64 posts
Jan 01, 2016
4:00 PM
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Nacoran the singing tip helped. Ive tried acting like I'm singing the note as I'm playing it. That really is helping create a nice tone. I saw a video once,i forget who it was, and it explained how your mouth shape can cancel out the resonant frequency of the note your playing and it wont sound. Something to that effect. So it only made sense that you could also make the perfect mouth/throat shape to best resonate the note your playing.
Like said all those things ive heard/read are now kinda comin together. I just probably need to spend some serious time with it. It all feels weird right now.
Thanks for the advice.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 01, 2016 4:01 PM
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Joe_L
2650 posts
Jan 01, 2016
6:10 PM
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If your car has an air bag, you will look kinda funny with a harmonica embedded in your dental work.
Deep resonant tone is not something that is easily developed. You have to experiment, play around with it and work at it. See what works and doesn't work for you. You should be seeking a variety of tones. It's not a one size fits all instrument for Blues.
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Killa_Hertz
66 posts
Jan 01, 2016
6:44 PM
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Dude who doesn't play in their car?
And i drive alot for work. So that's mostly when i play. If your scared don't do it.
And im not asking about a variety of tones. I was just looking for some pointers on playing with a deep tone and still moving fluidly around the harp at the same time. Cus i was havin trouble with it. I understand is not an overnight deal. I just wanted to make sure that what i was practicing was in the right direction before i develop even more bad habits. But thanks for the great advice bro. Much appreciated, lol.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 01, 2016 8:34 PM
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JustFuya
826 posts
Jan 02, 2016
5:49 AM
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Never overlook thick skin as a tool to develop. Brass is an excellent metallurgical material for making instruments but it can be abrasive on flesh.
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Fil
88 posts
Jan 02, 2016
6:14 AM
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JustFuya, good advice for a new harmonica player. Wish I'd heard it early on. Other advice I got early, but didn't take to heart right away, is there are no shortcuts.
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Phil Pennington
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The Iceman
2791 posts
Jan 02, 2016
6:16 AM
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"car playing" is not focused practice. It is distracted practice and doesn't get you as far as dedicated practice.
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The Iceman
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Killa_Hertz
69 posts
Jan 02, 2016
6:32 AM
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Very good point iceman. I try to practice when i can. And is better than nothing, but i should try to make more time at home.
Thin skin not an issue i assure u.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Ian
200 posts
Jan 02, 2016
6:57 AM
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I would just play with tongue positioning for a while.
I found that I was choking the upper reeds by putting my tongue too close to my teeth on the draw notes. By moving it back and keeping my jaw more open then the high notes came clearly and with a good tone.
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The Iceman
2793 posts
Jan 02, 2016
7:18 AM
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Deepest tone comes from what I've called "pre-yawn attitude".
One can gently hold the throat open as if one is starting to yawn. Learn what it feels like and make it your starting point as harmonica moves towards your mouth.
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The Iceman
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Killa_Hertz
72 posts
Jan 02, 2016
9:17 AM
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Yea ive absorbed alot of info the last couple days. Now I'm just putting it into practice. It's helpin alot already, but it still feels odd. The hard part is moving around the harp and bending while in the"yawning" mouth position.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 02, 2016 11:20 AM
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slaphappy
151 posts
Jan 02, 2016
12:05 PM
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that is the thing about the harp. It all feels weird at first, sometimes of the "are you kidding me?" variety.. like 5 hole splits at first for example. But then it just feels normal after a few weeks or months. And don't forget to record yourself often.
keep digging and questioning and refining Killa, I think that constant willingness to revise your approach is one of the keys to mastering the instrument as it seems like I'm constantly doing this with all of the techniques I've learned so far
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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
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Killa_Hertz
74 posts
Jan 02, 2016
2:13 PM
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Thanks man will do. I ve had those are you kidding me moments. For sure. But seeing that its possible keeps you moving
It's crazy. In practicing this new mouth position ( playing puckered). I actually am able to use it to bend TB. Not well, but u kno. Which is something i couldn't do before today no matter how hard i tried. Which is pretty cool. To just stumble onto it like that and be able to do something you couldn't before.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth...
Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 02, 2016 2:51 PM
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