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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Excellent advise to harp -players at a jam
Excellent advise to harp -players at a jam
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6SN7
607 posts
Dec 09, 2015
5:37 AM
This is a great clip that many here might think should be in the beginner section (I'll post it there) but this is some great advise to harp players, particularly those that show up at jams, "guss" themselves silly, listen only to themselves and think they are the center of the universe.

My favorite takeaways 1) "learn to sing" and 2) "don't be an asshole."

https://youtu.be/NqpVXFgDz1I

Last Edited by 6SN7 on Dec 09, 2015 11:56 AM
chromaticblues
1733 posts
Dec 09, 2015
10:29 AM
What if you can't sing and your an Asshole?
6SN7
609 posts
Dec 09, 2015
11:58 AM
woof, i embedded this a few times and it didn't swing.
As for singing, Ican't sing and have worked at it, its fun!
As for the other thing, well, thats in the eye of the beholder.
MindTheGap
849 posts
Dec 09, 2015
12:47 PM
A440
492 posts
Dec 09, 2015
2:11 PM
Everyone can sing, and everyone can not be an asshole. Both require some practice, depending upon how much you need to improve.
Buzadero
1262 posts
Dec 09, 2015
3:37 PM
I'm really only competent at one.....



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Underwater Janitor, Patriot
MBH poster since 11Nov2008
hvyj
2865 posts
Dec 09, 2015
4:41 PM
WTF should I try to sing? I have aptitude for being an asshole, but none for singing. Besides, if you sing you need to lug around a vocal mic and stand which is a PITA. if I tried to sing, no one would want to put up with it and I'd get fewer gigs. I think Zinn should learn to play Euphonium.
chromaticblues
1735 posts
Dec 09, 2015
6:27 PM
@6sn7
I have been on both sides of what your talking about. I can go to cheesy open mics and people tell me, "Holy Shit I've never heard anyone play like that before".
I've also played in front of a lot of people when I sucked! When I first started playing I just couldn't help myself. I loved playing the harp so much I didn't know enough to shut up!
I think that is something I learned after a while.
Joe_L
2638 posts
Dec 09, 2015
9:19 PM
It's much better to listen to a bunch of guys on the Modern Blues Harmonica forum about how to improve, than a bunch of professional musicians who make a living playing blues and backing blues harmonica players.

It makes much more sense. I mean, why would a harp player want to listen to a bunch of guys who have performed with every harp player of note in the past 20 years, when you could sit in your comfort zone and listen to some harp players who are unwilling to conquer their fears and learn to do something new?

I think complaining to a bunch of guys who are unwilling to try something new and complaining about it would be much more fun that attempting something new. You might crash and burn a few times, but this is supposed to be fun.


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nacoran
8818 posts
Dec 09, 2015
10:05 PM
Totally off topic for a second- admin hat on, since I have 2 of you here-

Guys with numeric handles (A440, 6SN7) do you guys get hit by the spam filter a lot? 1847 gets hit all the time and I was wondering if it was looking at the poster names in addition to the post content- lots of spammers use names like Jane123. Quick yes or no and then back to the normal bat channel...

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Nate
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Mirco
339 posts
Dec 09, 2015
11:01 PM
Thanks, Joe! That's some great perspective.

It's good for a guy to get out of his comfort zone sometimes. It forces us to grow as performers and as people. It's nice to be afraid sometimes, because at least then you're feeling something. You could be six feet under the ground and feeling nothing.

If the great Bruce Willis never stepped out of his comfort zone, we would only know him for "Moonlighting" and not for his excellent work in "The Sixth Sense", "Die Hard", and as a blues harmonica player.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
hvyj
2867 posts
Dec 10, 2015
12:54 AM
By getting out of one's comfort zone, do you mean like playing some jazz material? To me, that's a much stronger catalyst for instrumental development than attempting to sing.
Komuso
659 posts
Dec 10, 2015
1:33 AM
I'm firmly in the camp every musician should sing

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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Learn Harmonica Faster
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jbone
2088 posts
Dec 10, 2015
3:58 AM
20 years ago I had been sort of fooling around with the idea of singing live. Ultimately I had to step up due to loss of the "good" vocalist in a band. So that phase of the journey kicked off. I was not great. What I lacked in chops and skill I made up for with enthusiasm and volume. My voice suffered. My progress in learning better harp habits suffered as well, but there I was, trying to not be an asshole and facing a challenge I was not prepared for.
It was a loud band. My gear could not keep up harp-wise, so I was blowing up harps and damaging my vocal cords. I had to evaluate what worked for me and regroup. Took some basic vocal lessons and learned where to breathe from. This in itself made for big improvement in both singing and harp playing.
Time passed and I honed in on the kind of experience I needed as a musician. No more too-loud bands. Also along the way learned a valuable code to live by. When in doubt, play LESS not MORE! If my gear was not working either change it to something that would work or change bands or partners.
One band I worked with the leader had a great idea. No amps over 25 watts. Amps as monitors and run everything through the p.a. It worked very well. Stage volume became a livable entity.

I was a jam attendee for many years, it's where I learned a lot of my lessons, assets, and limitations. BUT. Just because someone else on stage was acting badly I had to learn that I had no right or reason to act badly as well. I began to choose what my experience would be and I stopped trying to overcome other peoples' bad behavior and just work on my own skills and manners. A few years back I grew a polyp on a vocal cord due to bad volume settings on my vocal mic. Once I realized what the problem was, I quit that guy since he would not or could not give me what I needed to sing dynamically. Sound gear is supposed to take the pressure off the singer!
I took 3 months off form singing at all, along with yelling and talking loud. My voice came back better than ever, and add to that I had stopped smoking, which was a huge improvement as well.
I don't "do" jams much any more. I may get back to that but with such a great partner I'd rather play with her most of the time.
I'm fortunate to have a partner who is sensitive to high volume and is on the same page as me concerning dynamics and tone and volume. We have put the gear together that works for us, small to medium room amps and p.a., and it's all we need. I have learned much about letting a song breathe. About truly using the less is more idea. Some stuff we do does not need any or very little harp and that is ok.

Everyone may be able to try singing but everyone will not sound good. That's just a fact in the real world. I think voice and breathing exercises are essential in order to learn how to get the most out of being a harp player. It doesn't necessarily follow that everybody has a place in front of a vocal mic. I personally didn't find a voice at all until my 30's and I was in my 40's before I began to mature vocally. At 60 I am sounding good.

I love both singing and playing harp enough to have learned to do my best at both. Along with that I have learned good manners and good habits. I do not get on a stage to do battle, it's to converse and to add to the overall goodness music can give an audience and a band of folks who make it.
We all do better as diplomats than as adversaries on a stage. I choose diplomacy.

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jbone
2089 posts
Dec 10, 2015
4:00 AM
Incidentally Nate, I frequently get spam jammed. I copy my message and have to paste it back in and try again about 3/4 of the time.
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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTwvU-EN1Q
6SN7
610 posts
Dec 10, 2015
4:17 AM
@ nacoran: I have never had an issue with spam filter. I have recently thought my handle was a problem, I mean, what do you call me, Mr Tube?

@ Joe L; Are you being sarcastic? Your first paragraph essentially says Rusty and co are full of it. What is your point?
hvyj
2868 posts
Dec 10, 2015
6:37 AM
That's why Zinn should learn to play Euphonium. When he has it in his mouth we don't have to listen to his bullshit. And maybe it will improve his guitar playing to the point where he can get work doing something more musically sophisticated and chordally complex than backing up blues harmonica players all the time. I mean, give me a break: if I have a gig that requires vocals, I'll hire a professional singer if none of the other musicians have a strong enough voice. No one's about to pay me to do It. Oh, yeah, and while I'm at it, I should stop practicing harp and learn a real instrument? How well does this jackass play harp anyway? Barrett has a commercial interest in pretending to take this crap seriously. But if he were keeping I real, he knows better than that.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 10, 2015 7:00 AM
Tuckster
1494 posts
Dec 10, 2015
7:58 AM
To me,Zinn does seem to be saying,learn to sing so we don't have to hear you play that harmonica so much.Does he give the same advice to guitarists,bassists,drummers?Still,his credentials are solid.He can back a harp player,a fairly rare commodityIMHO.
Here's another one that can apply to jams:

https://youtu.be/l10_A13daB0
CarlA
822 posts
Dec 10, 2015
8:31 AM
LMAO!! All of them were biting their tongues the entire interview. I could just see it in all three of their eyes. They so totally wanted to just say, "F$&@ harp players!!! They are all just the dregs of musicians".

..........haaaaahhaaa
hvyj
2871 posts
Dec 10, 2015
8:40 AM
Kid Anderson or Rico McFaland or even Elvin Bishop would eat this cat for lunch. As pompous as he is, the reality is Zinn specializes in background music for harmonica circle jerks. You know, that Mark Hummel stuff. Most harp players are not strong enough to get work unless they sing. Not that being able to sing is a bad thing. I've learned to sing well enough to do some backup if I absolutely have to, but I prefer not to. I don't even sing in the shower. Can't harmonize--I'm limited to singing the tonic or an octave below and that's it. No lead singing at all. I ain't no great harp player or anything like that, but I'm one of those rare musical commodities: a harp player who works regularly but doesn't sing--and believe me, my musical opportunities would not improve if I took Zinn's advice and tried to sing.,.i understand my limitations.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 10, 2015 9:16 AM
dougharps
1069 posts
Dec 10, 2015
9:04 AM
I thought it was honest and good advice for blues harmonica players from experienced musicians who have played with harp players.

Even if you are a side man in a group that plays a lot of blues you will be a more valuable band member if you can sing one or two songs per set. You don't have to be a fantastic vocalist with blues (and other roots music) you just have to be adequate. You don't have to be the front man. Also, the same techniques that give good harp tone are needed in vocals, and each can improve the other.

Years ago a really good local guitar player pointed out to me that learning a chord based instrument is a way to improve music theory knowledge. Chord structure is more clearly understood when you learn to play one of those instruments. If you don't understand the structure of the chords being played you may accidentally be playing a note that is dissonant with a note that is part of a chord. Todd Parrott pointed this out at a workshop I attended.

I think it is good advice.
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Doug S.
hvyj
2872 posts
Dec 10, 2015
9:27 AM
Doug, what you are saying is true enough. However, using a piano to learn//figure out chord structure does NOT require one to learn to play piano. These are two different things. The single most powerful catelyst for me to improve and develop my musicianship and harp playing was learning to play some relatively simple jazz material. Learning just a little jazz opens up so many ideas as well as gigging opportunities. But that's a skill set probably beyond Zinn's experience playing guitar for harmonica circle jerks.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 10, 2015 9:29 AM
slaphappy
145 posts
Dec 10, 2015
10:27 AM
If what Rusty Zinn says is wrong.. I don't wanna be right.

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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
marine1896
500 posts
Dec 10, 2015
10:52 AM
I have seen this before a while back, to me all those comments and opinions at the end are stuff you come up with yourself at some point sooner or later... especially if you have been in a couple of bands.

Singing blues is not always about being a 'good' singer it's being an emotive singer and learning or trying to carry the song. Let's be honest how many uninterested friends or partners have you let hear great/classic blues singers and they were completely turned off by it? One girlfriend commented on hearing Son House "he sounds if he has had a stroke... he sounds awful" and another time she said Howlin' Wolf sounded like he had a sore throat!!!

I enjoy singing, coincidently my voice is a bit like Rusty Zinn meets John Marx ish and I can get a little bit soulful just practice singing and taping yourself much like you do with your harp, learn you limitations and strengths when singing and try to suit your voice to the song...however at a jam that can all go out the window!

You just do the best you can!
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"

Last Edited by marine1896 on Dec 10, 2015 10:53 AM
Kingley
3976 posts
Dec 10, 2015
11:25 AM
Hahaha Joe! I really wish there was a 'like' button for that post :)


"Kid Anderson or Rico McFaland or even Elvin Bishop would eat this cat for lunch. As pompous as he is, the reality is Zinn specializes in background music for harmonica circle jerks. You know, that Mark Hummel stuff."

Hvyj - I'm guessing you're being sarcastic?

If not then, that just proves how little you know about Rusty Zinn. He is one of the most respected musicians on the West Coast and is a proven artist in his own right. He's not simply a background player at all. He is in fact a very diverse and in demand musician, who not only fronts his own bands, but is also a very, very good singer. He is also not simply a "blues guitarist". His skill and talent is across a range of musical genres. He is also held in high regard by people like Kid Andersen.

The advice given by all these guys in this video clip is solid advice and anyone would be wise to follow as much of it as they can, for their particular situation. All musicians, not simply harp players could learn a lot by listening to this clip.

I'd also suggest people listen to the full video over at bluesharmonica.com and not simply base their view off this one small clip.

Last Edited by Kingley on Dec 10, 2015 11:27 AM
hvyj
2874 posts
Dec 10, 2015
11:28 AM
Son House sounds like he's had a stroke-- priceless!!! That's truly funny. Anyway, I agree that everyone I work with would be better off if I could sing, for all the reasons Doug and others have articulated. And I suppose it's good ear training which of course would be helpful. I don't like singing, I have no particular aptitude for it and my harp playing is strong enough that I don't need to sing to get gigs playing harp. So, to me there is a logical disconnect for Zinn to tell me I should sing to improve my harp playing. I mean, huh???? I may need to work on arpeggios and intonation and some other stuff but I don't need to sing to bring variety to what I do...I have a pedalboard for that and sufficient self discipline to know when to lay out completely, which I do A LOT. This arrogant motherfucker is woefully misguided to actually believe that the audience would react more positively if I sang more and laid out less. It's perfectly appropriate to sit there and not play (or sing) AT ALL. Silence is the 13th note....I think Zinn's musicianship would improve if he learned to play Euphonium. Why? Well, for the same reason my harp playing would improve if I attempted to sing. See the logic??? Me neither.

If he knew what he was talking about and wasn't so full of shit he would be coaching us on note placement in relation to the beat, articulation and intonation of blue notes in relation to chord progression, phrasing in relation to rhythmic patterns and other substantive basics. Instead he tells us to go learn a real instrument and try to sing so you don't play harp so much. I mean who is he trying to kid? He is either profoundly ignorant or knows better and is just being an asshole.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 10, 2015 12:01 PM
marine1896
502 posts
Dec 10, 2015
12:11 PM
I think maybe Rusty is meaning that so many harp players are front men and sing and it's just something to work on. I mean there are harp players who don't sing but I rhink he is coming from a place that if your watching that you are probably aspiring to maybe being a frontman or at least sharing those duties. But as always also it's subjective but Rusty Zinn is as good as they come you can't really knock him as a musician.

@hvyj; Yeah, she had a lot of things to say about everything sometimes funny and sometimes not lol!
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
GamblersHand
590 posts
Dec 10, 2015
12:27 PM
At the end of the day the clip is made for David Barrett's blues harmonica instruction site. I think that the content would be have relevance to the majority of that particular audience?

For most developing blues players learning to sing is well worth it IMO even if only to lead jam sets and steer it away from guitar-orientated blues-rock
hvyj
2875 posts
Dec 10, 2015
12:52 PM
Whateverr...I'm not a frontman and don't aspire to be one. Even when I'm functioning as the bandleader on a gig. I hire someone else to front the band. So, I'm unimpressed with Zinn's advice and don't find it helpful or insightful. It comes off to me as snide, superficial and disrespectful. But if others disagree, that's ok. On this kinder, gentler composition of MBH as it exists these days, disagreement is thankfully no longer grounds for persecution.
marine1896
504 posts
Dec 10, 2015
12:59 PM
Yeah, everyone viewing that will take out of it what they want or want to hear.

snide zinn hee hee

Ok, I've only been a member a short while but I only really remember it getting a bit heated on the Corey Harris affair (which I posted I think) and the only reason I never joined back 2007 and thereabouts was that there seemed to be lots of non blues harp players on MBH which I have really no interest in, much like a blues guitar player would have not really much interest in a classical guitar player.
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"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"

Last Edited by marine1896 on Dec 10, 2015 1:14 PM
Tuckster
1495 posts
Dec 10, 2015
1:12 PM
Zinn is certainly a respected musician. I saw him play with Little Charlie and the Nightcats 10? years ago and he was good. Very sensitive to what Estrin was doing.I agree that singing adds a lot to the whole package,but it's not written in stone.There are some famous players who do not sing but I think everyone in Adam's top 10 do sing.Gruenling comes right to mind as one,but you know what he brings to the table with his harp playing.How many more famous non singing harp players can you name? The ones you can name are all outstanding players.
A few months ago I helped organize a local version of a "harmonica showdown". We chose 3 local players and all were chosen on their ability to sing and lead a band.A heck of a lot more entertaining than a night of harmonica instrumentals.
And just for the record,I'm just a sideman who does not sing.My greatest incentive to learn,would be so I could lead a band in a song I chose.
tomaxe
60 posts
Dec 10, 2015
1:13 PM
The fact that this is a blues harmonica instruction site and Barrett asks "what more can harmonica players do as a general species"(paraphrasing here) I think the gist of what Zinn was suggesting was to perhaps make strides to be more well-rounded as a musician, and that includes taking a crack at singing. He also mentions taking up another instrument and not playing so much, so he is clearly thinking of the more novice type player who can't lead a band because he can't sing, doesn't know how to instruct chord changes, and then won't shut up during a song.
I didn't find this to be asshole behavior at all...I encounter way worse on a daily basis, frankly, and BBQ BOB entertainingly berates us IN ALL CAPS on much the same stuff on this forum, and I for one find it instructive.
And although perhaps backing harp players is Zinn's bread and butter—things a lot of guitar players cannot do— it's obvious from listening to him play for more than a minute that he is a very good, diverse musician and a brief google search on him shows that he has not only played with Elvin Bishop and survived but backed up/recorded with Kim Wilson—a pretty knowledgeable cat—and apparently has some reggae styled releases where he works with Sly Dunbar. A decent resume´.
hvyj
2876 posts
Dec 10, 2015
2:34 PM
Not that this has anything to do with anything, but FWIW, my approach to whatever musical endeavors I engage in is not harmonica centric. To me, my harmonica is just another instrument in the band. My most frequent role is to function as an alternative solo "voice". I get gigs with really good guitar players who also sing because I can take an extended solo with no significant drop in energy which allows them to take a break and then I know how to stay out of their way when they get reinvigorated and do the frontman guitar god thing. I also get gigs with more limited guitar players who sing because I can handle solos better than they can. Not to be arrogant, but I do seem to have some talent for improvisation. So, even when I'm playing with my own bands,, I tend to adapt to what the band is doing rather than order the band around to make them adapt to me.

A local venue gave me a couple of Thursdays to do "whatever you want". So, I hired a couple of the best compatible musicians I knew, asked them what material they wanted to do, gave them material I wanted to do, and allowed them to provide the musical structure instead of ordering them around. That is the key: working with good musicians and letting them do what they know how to do. Must have went over ok because the venue gave me two more carte blanche Thursdays. The venue promotes it as my gig with these guys backing me up, which is actually sort of a joke because I don't direct them except as to the general approach to the material we pick out. I stay out of their way while they make me sound better than I deserve.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 10, 2015 2:40 PM
SuperBee
3059 posts
Dec 10, 2015
3:12 PM
I don't know that disagreement was ever grounds for persecution. I do think the principle of civility should be broadly applied, and I can't see any reasonable grounds to call rusty Zinn an arrogant motherfucker.
I doubt he had you in mind John, when he answered David's question. Personally I found his advice to be solid. It's advice, he was asked what advice he would give and he gave it. It was David Barrett who made the decision to publish it.
timeistight
1911 posts
Dec 10, 2015
3:19 PM
"Not to be arrogant, but"

Yeah, right.
hvyj
2877 posts
Dec 10, 2015
3:25 PM
Well, SB, you may be right but his delivery and substative content (or, from my perspective complete lack of substative content) really rubbed me the wrong way--from my perspective it was derrogatory, insulting and offensive. That remains my opinion, but I am delighted to learn that you found it solid and helpful. I don't understand how or why. If you care to elaborate on that I may learn something...

@ timeistight: People seem to like it, musicians pay me to do it, and I'm better at it than I am at handling melodies. So, I give myself a little credit. Btw, if anyone can tell me how to post a photo I can put on a real display of arrogance by posting the promo poster for these Thursday gigs. Like I said I consider it to be sort of a joke in reality. I mean at least I don't actually believe the promotional bullshit.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 10, 2015 3:41 PM
SuperBee
3061 posts
Dec 10, 2015
4:47 PM
I think you've made it fairly clear the advice doesn't apply to you John. For me, I did find that stepping up to the mic was a good idea, I did find that learning some about chord theory was beneficial to improvisation. And not playing...I think harmonica is an instrument which is prone to get old quickly. Not always, but often.
Especially in terms of a gig where there is harmonica in every song. An evening of harmonica in every song can be hard to swallow. Even if it's jazz. Maybe especially if it's jazz. Maybe that's a question of taste.
In any case, the advice to not be an asshole, while flippant, is always good imho. Can be hard to follow if one lacks capacity for introspection I suppose, and may make for less excitement. But I try to stay aware of the possibility I may be acting that way. Sometimes my band mates remind me. They are good at recognising it; something to do with perspective I think.
Goldbrick
1211 posts
Dec 10, 2015
6:02 PM
It appeared to me that all 3 of those guys didnt seem all that interested in the interview

Look a decent musician knows where to come in, knows when to lay out and tries not to be a butthole

Singing is a plus -especially good harmony- but i dont think ya gotta do it.

Learnimg another instrument-- I kind took that as harp is just an accessory thing like tambourine-kinda snarky. I think he meant learn a little theory

Bass player had nothing to add and the drummer was tripping talking about "tone" on the drums
maybe if you are Tony Williams or Gene Krupa-

I have been playing drums in bands since I was 13 ( like 50 years gulp) and the keys were to have rhythm, dynamics and dont run anybody over-

Rusty is a fine guitarist- just leave it at that- I think barret put him on the spot and he reacted-he for sure looked bored.

Does Jason sing ?

I will say this- when I lead a band I never hire a singer who doesnt play an instrument 'cause they rarely know when to shut up and often just stand around looking bored

And now for something completely different

How do you know when a harp player is at the door- "they dont have the right key and dont know when to come in"
6SN7
611 posts
Dec 12, 2015
5:03 AM
@hvyi: The comments were aimed at student harmonicas players. I don't get the feeling that these guys are delivering snark to harp players as others have mentioned here, but some honest advise. I took it as some constuctive criticism, not more nothing less. So I am little surprise some take huge offense at the clip, but whatever.
Of course, you and others are entilted to your opinions, but not the facts. Your characterization of Rusty Zinn is laughbale in the face of his resume: "a guitar player for harmonica circle jerks." Really, that's just absurd.

The comment that made me laugh was this priceless one from you:
"I don't need to sing to bring variety to what I do...I have a pedalboard for that"

Last Edited by 6SN7 on Dec 12, 2015 5:05 AM
hvyj
2878 posts
Dec 12, 2015
10:33 AM
I was doing a sideman gig last night with a guitar god, and this black guy comes up to me tells me he likes my harp playing and asks if I had a card (which I gave him). He tells me he recently took over a bar down the street and wants me to play on Wednesdays if am available. I told him I had my own blues band but I also had other ensembles playng different styles of music, too. We talked about what type of music he was looking for and talked a little about money. I'm supposed to call him today. Ya know, he never asked if I could sing or play any other instrument.

I just knew of Zinn as the guitar player for the Mark Hummel circle jerks. My ignorance made me unaware of his more substantial musical achievements. But that actually leaves me even more perplexed. I have the good fortune to be around some relatively high level professional musicians, maybe not as accomplished as Zinn, but very experienced and pretty knowledgable nevertheless. Tips and suggestions I get from guys like that are so much more insightful and make so much better sense that what Zinn has come up with. If he is as good as his resume leads us to believe, he should be capable of better. Very disappointing to my way of thinking.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 12, 2015 10:49 AM
Kingley
3977 posts
Dec 12, 2015
10:46 AM
Hvyj - Have you watched the whole interview series of this over at bluesharmonica.com?
I suspect that you're making judgements based on about two minutes of conversation from Rusty in the above clip and nothing else. Hardly a fair comparison of what he and the others discuss in the full series. That's a bit like judging a whole movie on the closing credits without viewing the full content. It's akin to me making a judgement about your playing ability based on the strength of one short video clip where you may play only a few bars in that song. I'd suspect that if you spoke to Rusty in person, you'd find him to be a wealth of knowledge and a highly articulate individual.
hvyj
2879 posts
Dec 12, 2015
11:12 AM
Sort of reminds me of the Russ Meyer quote: "Life is like a porn movie. The whole can never be as good as the best parts." I dunno. Just reacting to what I saw here, none of which motivates me to research the rest of the interview.

The guy who made the most sense to me was the drummer. Time after time I've witnessed what he was very tactfully describing. Many harp players attempt to gig with underpowered amps, antique mics and complicated methods of sound reinforcement ostensibly in quest of a certain tone. The result is often a litany of tech problems at the venue.
av1901
3 posts
Dec 12, 2015
7:53 PM
I'm really surprised to see Mark Hummel disparaged like this. His talent is top notch and he manages to bring together great talent. The advise in the clip is good advice from all 3 seasoned pros.
indigo
193 posts
Dec 12, 2015
9:16 PM
Great thread.When i was starting out the best player in my neck of the woods said"if you want to play Harp you have got to Sing ,at least a bit"
You can translate that as in no Band is going to split the gig money with a harp player who can't do something else.
I am not talking about playing with Guitar gods or filling stadiums this is just the reality of playing in a Bar Band.Which in reality is the destination of most of us.
If i could 'sing' i would of had more gigs(and bands) than i could handle.
I am talking straight Blues here,not Jazz.Rock or whatever.
I think in that scenario Rusty is talkin' the truth.
hvyj
2880 posts
Dec 12, 2015
9:27 PM
Look, I 'm not disparaging Hummel. He's a fine tecnichian. I just don't particularly enjoy harmonica cattle calls, blow offs, circle jerks or whatever you want to call them. No accounting for taste. If u enjoy them that's perfectly fine. FWIW, even though I don't play any instrument besides harmonica, my musical orientation is not all that harmonica centric. But that's just me. Perhaps a minority view around here,

@indigo: Absolutely true that a harp player who works regularly but doesn't sing is a very rare musical commodity. And I'm talking bar bands. That's my type of gig for the overwhelming most part. I count my blessings.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 12, 2015 9:40 PM
6SN7
614 posts
Dec 13, 2015
5:15 AM
hvji, with all due respect, you have taken up a lot of bandwidth in this discussion, which is fine, but really, your replies to this post is getting stale and repetitive and you have contributed nothing positive towards advancing the subject.

I am delighted you have so many gigs and everybody loves you. I am serious with that comment, it's what many of us here strive for. But you have come off as less "harmonica centered" and just plain old "self centered."

Which brings me to what I think is an excellent quality all harp players should bring to any bandstand, that is, HUMILITY.

Last Edited by 6SN7 on Dec 13, 2015 5:41 AM
hvyj
2881 posts
Dec 13, 2015
6:05 AM
Yeah, you're right. My bandwidth to substative contribution ratio is horribly skewed on this thread....sorry for allowing myself to get so inner directed and self laudatory. I've used up my hot air/drivel quota and then some for this year..,but of course for better or for worse the new year isn't that far away....but I'm done for now. My apologies.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 13, 2015 6:06 AM
hvyj
2882 posts
Dec 13, 2015
6:20 AM
Well, since this question is specifically addressed to me, I guess it's ok for me to take up a little more bandwidth in order to answer. It's the concept that does not appeal to me. Purely subjective.

EDIT: where'd the question go???

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 13, 2015 6:22 AM
6SN7
615 posts
Dec 13, 2015
7:57 AM
dude, if you got all these gigs (and posters lol!) you have to be doing something that keeps you in the "game."
I know you mention pedals that are something you use to add a deminsion to your playing,enlighten us! I am not crazy about pedals as the majority of players I have seen simplely play the same licks but kick in a few pedals to augment their sound. Personally, when I play jams, I opt to play in !st, 2nd and 3rd positon and do some horn lines with a chro. I practice these beforehand as I hate the idea of "noddling" on stage. Some might think a jam is a place to freeform/noodle but I disagree on that, your garage is a better place for that. My wife would concur with that too!

Last Edited by 6SN7 on Dec 13, 2015 7:58 AM
hvyj
2884 posts
Dec 13, 2015
10:35 AM
I don't always use pedals. Depends on the gig. As you describe the way you've seen pedals used, they are merely being employed as sound effects. That's ok if you like it, but that's not what I do. I don't want to high jack this thread any more than I already have, and I'm pressed for time at the moment anyway. But, since you've asked, I'll start a new thread and describe how I go about the pedal board thing later today or this evening.

It's hard to gig steadily if you only play blues. Nothing wrong with blues, but to work steadily you've gotta be able to get around in different styles. One thing I bring to the table is being comfortable playing different kinds of minors on diatonic. Certain gigs put me in minor keys over half the time. Now, I'm not saying I'm great at any of this stuff, but I'm no worse at it than I am at playing blues in second position. And I am not great at that by any means.

Last Edited by hvyj on Dec 13, 2015 10:40 AM


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