Gunna buy a new set of harps, I'm going for Suzuki this time. My style is mix of Little Walter, SBWII and James Cotton I guess. Manji or promaster? Can get a set of pros much cheaper than the manjis. Not that cost is a big factor.Please give me your thoughts and experience on these harps.
Go with the composite comb, Manji. I know they say it's rare and only a problem in some early Promasters, but I've got at least one that tastes a little Tangy when I tongue block it. But, on the plus side, I think they have the best cover plates of any harp. Hello Olive.
Last Edited by Thievin' Heathen on Sep 25, 2015 7:53 PM
I prefer the Promaster for first position melodic work and classical tunes. For Blues I prefer the Manji.
On an aluminum comb, if there is any defect in the coating, you will get the tangy taste as your saliva creates a galvanic cell with the brass and aluminum and produces an electrical current. I have seen Pro-Master combs from a few years ago that were so poorly sawed that they were leaky. Hopefully Suzuki has corrected both the thin anodize and the saw marks.
The ProMaster are like the Meisterklasse, with heavy chromed covers that feel good and wear well and an aluminum comb, tuned to equal temperment. They are also available in a half valved version. The Manji is like the Marine Band, or truly more like the Crossover--except that it came first. Tuned to compromise, vented stainless steel covers, composite comb. I would think a blues player would prefer the Manji, but if you had the ProMaster, you could try tuning it closer to just, and it would make a fine blues harp. The low tuned Manjis are a great bargain, list is $79. Ron's got 'em for $62.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Sep 25, 2015 10:30 PM
My limited experience suggests Manji. Really not a fan of the promasters I have. But I'm sure the modern ones are better...I still wouldn't like the covers nor the ET for most things if I played like cotton, miller and LW...and metal combs are unappealing to me. The Manji has great covers. I don't really like the comb, and something about Suzuki reeds I find jarring after all this time on hohner...funny, I find seydel reeds far more familiar, almost the same as playing a hohner, but Suzuki always feel weird to me.
I’m going to stick my nose in here. I would rather communicate you via email but I don’t see any contact information in your profile.
I am a Suzuki Dealer and I can help you out.
Both the ProMaster and the Manji are good harps. Thievin' Heathen mentioned some issues with the ProMaster combs. He is absolutely right. I don’t know if it a problem that has been fixed but even it has, when you buy a harp from a retailer you don’t know if the harp you get was made before or after the problem was fixed – if it even was fixed.
By the way Thievin' Heathen, the Olive has Manji reed plates with ProMaster covers.
As a custom comb maker I admit to being biased, but I am not a big fan of the Manji comb.
So here’s the bottom line. I buy components from Suzuki – Reed Plates and Covers – and build harps to order for my customers. You can choose from a variety of comb materials, Manji or ProMaster plates and Manji or ProMaster covers. Additionally, I will tune the harp however you want. The ProMaster is ET and the Manji is just barely Compromise Temperament. Personally I don’t care for the Suzuki temperaments much and so I re-tune to Modern Compromise Temperament like the Hohner Marine Band. I think it makes a huge difference. But that’s just me.
The good news is you won’t spend much more with me than you would spend buying Manjis or ProMasters retail. Again, that’s because I buy components at dealer costs and add my combs.
If you choose to do business with me – fine. If not – fine. I just want to put the information out there so you won’t have to say, at some point in the future, “If I had known then what I know now, I would have done it differently.”
Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.
---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Sep 26, 2015 10:44 AM
Get the Manjis. They're noticeably more responsive and powerful than the Promasters, the extra money is well spent. ---------- Tony Eyers Australia www.HarmonicaAcademy.com everyone plays...
I am a big fan of the Promasters for all the qualities already mentioned. The valved promasters are especially nice , have a brilliant expressiveness, and have a good feel to the hand. ---------- ---------- Ted Burke tburke4@san.rr.com
i think manjis will suit your style more.great harps.manjis also outlast any other harp for me,between tunings or reed fractures.
before florida traders post i was going to suggest a mixture of suzukis.i think he covered that well . a suzuki with a blue moon comb is amongst the best harps i have ever played.
i personally like harpmasters and delta frosts better than pro masters, although i have some promasters with fabulous reeds plates that are very nice.
anyway,a combination of suzuki harps makes sense ---------- www.shakeylee.com
an aftermarket comb with fabulous just plates and manji or modern soul's voice covers would be a force to be reckoned with. ---------- www.shakeylee.com
Thanks guys, and thankyou Florida,I found a Suzuki dealer in nambucca heads, NSW. I can go up there and play and test all the harps I like, and can do me a good deal on a set of manjis. I guess after what I've read from you blokes Manji will suit Chicago style blues more. Gunna try some seydels as well. Ahh why do they make soooo many different harps. We are spoilt for choose these days. And may I add, Jason Ricci is the greatest living harp player. Love everything I've heard him play. IMO.
Last Edited by Ozblues66 on Sep 26, 2015 9:16 PM
Oz - That's a great move on your part. There's nothing like having the opportunity to test out a harmonica before you buy it. You can figure out if you like one model vs. another. Once you determine which harp you like, you can have the dealer adjust it to your liking. All of this increases the odds of getting some harps you will be happy with for a long time. Best of luck to you. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
An earlier post might suggest the Manji came before the crossover. Not sure if that's what Gnarly is saying, but the crossover was publicly discussed on harp-l several months before anyone heard of a Manji. Both were generally available in the USA around the same time though, around SPAH 2009. ---------- www.spiersharmonicas.com
hvyj, the Hammond is a ProMaster! It has ProMaster plates, and the same covers and comb, albeit with a black lacquer finish.
I am inclined to believe harpwrench's information, although they look similar enough to me to make me think that someone is copying someone (and the one they are copying is copying a Marine Band). Gonna do some more research, but Joe's usually right about stuff.
Edit: Joe wins, looks like they broke about the same time, here's a trip in the time machine:
Oz, that is one unique harmonica dealer! I've only ever heard of a couple dealers that would allow you to ~try~ a harmonica before buying it. And those instances occurred long ago. It would be pretty much unheard of in modern-day USA because of public health laws. Apparently that isn't the case in Nambucca Heads, NSW.
As attractive as that opportunity might appear, it would make me wonder who else has tried any given harmonica in that store. I'd also wonder about how knowledgeable and thorough the staff is in sanitizing any such harmonicas that are unsold yet remain in inventory there.
But maybe that's just me. 8^)
Michelle
--------- SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
Last Edited by mlefree on Sep 28, 2015 10:59 AM
I know someone who has already been to this dealer. Just a one man operation.He's a very rare bird.He's a very good harp tech, he's also a Luthier. Apparently there's a lot of anti bacterial wash going on whilst your sussing his harps out.Here's a thought,no one seems to worry too much about the knives and forks at restaurants. Who's mouth have they been in?
Last Edited by Ozblues66 on Sep 28, 2015 4:05 PM
You do, I'm just visiting. I like the Hammanji, a Manji with Hammond covers (they are ProMasters with the same black laquer they use on the FireBreath covers). Captcha is c8rtax
I received a first run Crossover still in the blister pack from a friend as a Christmas gift.
Being as we are both nerds, rather than playing it, I took it apart. There was that half moon stain on the top and bottom reed plates. I wasn't bothered. It seemed to me that either a real player tested it before packing or someone at Hohner took it for a spin. :-) ---------- I'm out of the Biz for a while till I get over my burnout. You can try HarveyHarp or arzajac, or just look the page nacoran put together under Forum Search. .
The Suzuki Manji uses a compromise tuning which is essentially equal temperament with a few cents lopped off the major thirds of the chords. The Suzuki Olive has a similar tuning, but the sample I tried also had the 6 and 10 draw noticeably lowered. Pat Missin
I have wanted an Olive ever since I 1st became aware of them, but somehow I have yet to acquire one.
A few weeks ago I, while I was e-shopping harmonicas. on a lark I decided to order some Fabulous reed plates and some custom combs. The selection was limited so I decided to try a "C" in ET and a "C" in JI.
A couple of weekends ago, I found myself at a gathering of guitar players who asked all kinds of harp questions whereupon I drifted into a dissertation about the history of harmonicas. When I came to the part about the authenticity of JI for old blues music I thought it was a good opportunity to demonstrate an A/B comparison of my 2 "C's". No one could hear the difference, and truth be told, neither could I.
You can draw your own conclusions from that. Mine is, if you have a tuning preference, you're going to need to tune it yourself.
I have a 10 harp set of Olives that I acquired over time. They are NOT ET, so I never gig with them but I like them a lot and they are fun to play. I put black anodized aluminum combs from Blue Moon on all of them but the Low F. I am not wild about the OOB Olive or Manji combs. However the Low F Olive and an old style Low F Manji that I have sound exceptionally good with the stock Suzuki composite combs. Perhaps Suzuki pays closer attention to how flat the comb is on the low tuned harps, but I dunno. I like Suzuki harps a lot. As far as the Olive tuning is concerned, it's some sort of compromise tuning but I can't figure out what it is. It certainly isn't ET.
@gnarly: I know the Suzuki party line is that there is no difference between Hammonds and Promasters but the color, however, my Hammonds play much better than my Promasters and the Hammonds definitely have a darker tone. The PMs are very bright. I suspect the Hammond combs are better quality, and I think painted (as opposed to chrome plated) covers tend to dampen/darken tone, but that's controversial.
Btw, I play ET because almost all of my playing is with other musicians, and I play multiple positions and generally don't play a lot of chords. ET puts me in tune with the rest of the band. I have a mixed set of Hohner XOs and MBDs all with Hetrick blond bamboo combs (which are flatter than the stock Hohner combs, but are no longer available) in case I need them for a gig where the band leader wants me to do the choo-choo train thing but I've have never had to use them. I almost always replace the factory combs when I get an OOB harp except on Suzuki Hammonds and Firebreaths (and the one Fabulous I got when they first came out). As far as non-ET tuning is concerned, I've never understood the logic of using a temperament that puts me out of tune with the rest of the band just so I can sound in better tune with myself when I play chords. But, YMMV.
Btw, in my experience it's the rare Manji or Olive that doesn't need some reed adjustment (gapping) OOB. But once that is accomplished they sound good and play very well, especially the Olive (but I prefer full length unvented covers anyway).
Last Edited by hvyj on Oct 04, 2015 1:17 PM
