one thing he does not mention is that earplugs can help. they cut noise levels to where they are not so loud nothing can be heard and also increase the prominence of the sound from your harp as conducted through your jaw to your inner ear.. in-ear monitors can have the same effect, plus if someone in the band needs them-self really loud the in ear monitor can solve that issue to
Thank you for posting that, Bob! Everything Gary Smith said is consistent with my experiences. I really like his approach for a band.
I like how he tied in the issue of dynamics. If you are at the max volume you lose the ebb and flow of volume needed to execute musical dynamics and keep your music interesting. I like how he tied in the change from stand up bass to electric. Far too many times I have heard music in which the drums and bass volumes dominate the music and lead to the band being too loud and vocals indistinguishable. If a band cannot work out how to keep stage volume reasonable and vocals clear it doesn't have much future anyway. The musicians will become deaf.
If playing in your band demands ear plugs all the time, think about what that means. The stage should not be so loud that ear plugs are needed. When the first several rows of seats/tables are empty, or people keep moving back from the stage, that is a hint about volume. I refuse to be an ongoing part of any band that leaves my ears ringing through the next day. I do not want to be in a band that muddies vocals by being too loud on stage.
With regard to using bigger amps and ear plugs, they can help when you are in situations such as jams or with gigs where you have been hired by a loud band for a show. I pull out more powerful amps and use ear plugs when I have to in order to be heard and in order to not wreck my hearing. But I won't do that on a regular basis with any band.
PS When the band is playing really loud you can't hear yourself. When you can't hear yourself you end up playing with too much breath force and wreck your harps. Playing in a loud band is expensive. ----------
For years I wrestled with this issue. One band I co-founded developed a great attitude and stage presence by using low watt amps, turning them around up front and using them as monitors and miced off. As the harp guy I was feeling great about it. Like anything though, that band served its purpose and the members- me included- moved to other pursuits eventually.
I am missing some of my middle range hearing thanks to loud stages, being on them and being out front.
Some may think I'm missing out by limiting my volume and involvement with other players, but the plan is, once we become blues gypsies in a couple of years, we will work with bands and players across the country as we find them. Volume will always be the #1 factor though. With my hearing loss and wife's very sensitive hearing, there are definite limits to what we can tolerate that way.
To me the beauty of small amps is, they will break up much better when overdriven. We currently use old Vibro Champs. Hers is in great shape and needs nothing. Mine we discovered recently has the wrong ohm speaker and a couple other small issues, but my amp guy tells me, if I like the sound, it won't hurt the amp to play it as is. Our latest youtube stuff is done with those amps and we really like the tone and dynamics they provide.
Doug's PS above is too true. Another place to be mindful of the breath force dilemma is, street playing. You can find a reasonable volume level based solely on the ability of the harp, and that level will save reeds. That guy across the street or up the block? Those folks will come by if they are interested, more volume will not make a difference that way. And added benefit, if you can be heard too far away how is anyone going to get close enough to tip you or buy a cd??? I like particular harps for the volume they provide.
I played a couple of big venues in my time, both in and outdoors. A sound guy can save you or sink you. Most times though, in the duo with the 75w per side small p.a., I am the sound guy. I'd rather have people ask us to turn up than turn down or worse yet, just leave. We sit in our folding chairs and the amp and p.a. controls are in my reach. We do a thorough sound check prior to starting a set.
This works well for us. I realize a lot of folks have different situations and bigger projects. I'm only relating what I did and how it's working. I do believe that dialing in the volume to what's needed and keeping it reasonable, is key to great stage presence and a quality show.
I Agree with all of this, but Talking to the band never seems to work. Guitar players are always an issue and if you add a piano player, well that just sucked up a lot of the frequency spectrum.Not to mention the band ways gets louder as the night goes on. And like Gary said, some most guys don't respond well to telling them how to play, and most cats can't hear!Bottom line if you want to be Heard Night after night a harpking 6x10 And ear plugs is where it's at lol. Problem with Earplugs is that you can't hear your tone and gAge volume leveL with them in.
One thing to remember is that when you're dealing with musicians in many open jams, too often you're gonna be dealing with a lot of total boneheads on the bandstand with egos that far outstrips their actual abilities. There are gonna be times where being polite ain't gonna cut it and you're gonna have to get in somebody's face to get your message across.
When it comes to sound guys, some of them are fine and actually keep the stage volume down, but some ae used to large rock venues and they can be problematic because everything gets miked up and the monitors are gonna be too loud and sometimes you gotta get in their face too.
When it comes to dynamics, you HAVE to learn to give CLEAR SIGNALS for that and too often, harp players, especially in open jam situations have a tendency to be too passive or totally woosy about it and need to grow a pair to take total command of the situation and never let anyone think they can intimidate them.
If you do need ear plugs, AVOID the ones off the shelf because many of them take far too many frequencies across the board and makes things more of a problem than what they;re worth and tho it's gonna be much more expensive, the custom made stuff that takes off a limited number of decibels but are set to cut down certain frequencies that tend to do the most damage will make more sense as well as be much more useful and tho most people think the treble from the guitars are the biggest problem, every reputable audiologist will tell you that the biggest problems to your hearing actually comes from loud electric bass players far more than the guitars do, followed by cymbols (because they're of indefinite pitch) and then the bass drum and after that, the top frequencies of the guitar and custom ear plugs are set to properly do that job. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
When I see earplugs I leave. It's that simple, it's going to be way too loud.
I gave up that fight some time ago. For me it was not a pissing contest, I was there to have a conversation with fellows and peers, not a shouting match. That remains true to this day and will always be true for me. Volume has never equaled coolness, skill, or anything good for me unless it was at an arena with thousands in the audience- which never happened for me yet! My thing with music is, it's a way to reach folks. We can share om a deeper level than normal conversation, I can express in a different way, and people can relate to that. If that's too hippie for ya, that's the era I came up in. I love doing the music get to do and having people dig it as well. If I look at the audience and see people yelling in each other's ears, I know they will likely leave. People don't usually go out to have their ears blown off. I know some actually do but they are not my audience. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
Noise cancellation headphones, or audio spotlights? I'd really like to see someone use audio spotlights for monitors. Each person could basically have their monitor as loud as they want without bothering the other band members, at least in theory.
Still no cure for drummers (well, except a digital drum kit).
Audio Spotlights: http://www.holosonics.com/
I don't know if anyone has tried to deploy them as monitors. I imagine their price will come down a lot in the next few years.
I used to play with a band that was typical blues rock, and we got very loud many times. The drummer had a rack mount kit and I think every drum, cymbal, bell, and whatever else known to man. We once played a weekend in Hot Springs for a noted restaurant that hosted the local blues jam for years there. First night we played, a Friday, we arrived and set up, ate, and started playing. We had had time to sound check and for some reason the leader didn't feel the need to check volumes, so we took off. All night the waitress was bringing notes to the leader, he'd read them and we'd keep playing. I thought they were requests from the audience. End of the night the owner chewed us out about our big volume, and told us he'd sent several notes asking us to turn down! It was not my place, but I apologized and promised we'd play more reasonable the next night. We had a band meeting before we went to our rooms, and agreed we had to play quieter. Next night we took to drummer's sticks away! No kidding. Everyone turned down about 1/3 on the amps and p.a. channels. Halfway through the night the owner comes over and tells us we can turn up "a bit". Which we did. Even gave the drummer his sticks back!
Here's why it's a disease though. Next gig, we got paid off to quit early because we were TOO LOUD! Some people just won't be reasonable. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
A lot of rock head bangers play loud even in a small place,they don`t know what Chicago blues set up is.chicago style, three guitars,1,bass line,2chords,3lead line, and can switch from chorus to chorus.it doesn`t need to be screamin` out loud.
Nice post Bob...what Gary is talking about is one of the most important parts of a successful working band. Playing for the entertainment of the people listening to you and keeping the volume at an acceptable level.
