I'm pretty fed up, that when I am chatting to someone and they ask what instrument I play and I reply with 'harmonica', there is a suppressed laugh and 'is that all you do'vibe.
This is a bit ouchy. I usually get a stunned silence.
Someone put this on the Oz harp player network today. It give a good feeling of how "others" see us, including us buskers. Telling people you sing and play blues gets a better reaction.
I went to a friend's house and played a few tunes for them for the first time. At the end of the night she made a gesture like brushing teeth sideways and said, I used to think you were just doing this, but you can PLAY! BronzeWailer's YouTube
Give 'em a taste of their own medicine: After listening to a concert pianist, go up to him/her and say: "Gee, I didn't know you could play Bach on that thing!" ---------- Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
That sort of comment imo is usually made either by non-musicians or musicians who have been exposed to crappy harp players or children. We do have a responsibility to hold our counsel, choose our battles, and have our best chops readily available.
I was at a local funk jam one evening and as I was walking up to the stage to play my wife heard two or three people make comments about "What's the old man gonna do? He won't last. This will be funny", all of which were quieted quickly as I busted off into a Joe Turner, followed by a Tbone Walker and then an original, all jazzed up and swinging. As I headed back to our table people shook my hand and high fived me. Wife later told me the most impressed were those who had earlier detracted with cynical comments.
Reminds me of the old adage "Better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and prove it!" As long as my chops can back my play I can comment to detractors with confidence. Those with no clue can be clued in. Some will never change their attitude and those are people I have no interest in.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
When someone asks you that question, you should lead with "I play cigar box guitar" (kazoo or thumb-piano works too). The look is usually either disdain or "Aww . . . ain't that cute."
Following that with "I also play harp" will up their estimation immensely.
That is . . . if you care what they think. Generally speaking, I've come to learn it's best not to give a flying flip about the opinions of insignificant others. ---------- Marr's Guitars
Over a decade's experience designing, building & playing Cigar Box Guitars
Last Edited by Rontana on Jul 02, 2015 5:08 AM
I get that all the time. I think it's more common than finding someone who actually respects the instrument, although that may be just me hanging out with the wrong crowd.
I also play mandolin, saxophone, and drums. It's my experience that this is the prevailing attitude for most instruments that aren't guitar, vocals, or (sometimes) keyboard.
Harmonicanick – I suppose the sentiment you have expressed is one of the reasons we all like hanging out on this forum. It’s like Group Therapy. Here, everybody plays the harmonica so we are all weird, or is it, we are all normal? Doesn’t matter. For us, the harmonica is a common bond. It is the glue that holds us together. Lord knows that I wouldn’t hang out with a lot of you guys if you were not harmonica players. For some of you, that’s pretty much your only redeeming quality.
I jest.
But seriously, people’s reaction to the news that you play the harmonica is reveals more about them than it does you. Sometimes it is disdain. Most of the time it is ignorance. They think of the harmonica as a toy or at most, something to be played around a campfire by lonely cowboys. But we know better.
Keep your chin up Nick. Just go out and make beautiful music. Let your harp do your talking for you.
jbone - that's a great story, must have been very satisfying. But what about those of us who don't have the skills yet? This is why places like MBH need to be even more supportive than they are now to fledging players like me. There's enough indifference out there.
During break convincing band to let me up and join them for a tune or two. Being told "We'll call you up in this next set". Watching band play pretty cool blues/jazz/funk tunes for 1/2 set. Then they call me up. Leader turns around and tells band "OK, slow blues in E". After playing that song, I'll tell band leader "How about playing those hip funky tunes". After looking at me funny, he calls off a tune w/changes or funky.
From then on it's "Game On". They are usually surprised that a harmonica player can rise to the occasion.
I was getting a pizza and a beer a couple of days ago and struck up a conversation with the guy at the bar next to me. During the conversation the server, a friend of mine asked if I had any cards because one of her friends wanted to know about my custom harmonicas.
The next to me asked if I played and mentioned he played guitar. We chatted music a bit and his comment to me was that he's played guitar for years and ever couple of years he picks up a harmonica and tries to learn it but, just never can get it to sound the way he wants it to. This is a fairly common response from other musicians meet.
I've also pointed out harmonica riffs or backing music in songs or TV shows and commercials. Often times they comment back that they loved the sound and didn't really think about it being a harmonica.
It's very rare I've ever heard the instrument belittled, except of course from other harmonica players, or the occasional hack guitar player before he realized I played.
The comment is usually what other instrument do you play?
When I was at Temple University's Esther Boyer College of Music I always got the young sax players mad because I could improvise better than them. Fortunately, the head of the composition department was over the jazz program and he was a fan and was a protector of mine. He was a heavy weight and no one would challenge him.
Good topic. Loved the vid. Especially the part about "Oh very nice. And you managed to dress yourself too." Mostly i tell the inquisitors either, I play the Mississippi saxophone, I'm a harmonicist tht specializes in roots style music, or that I sing and play harp. We have a few pretty good harpers that gig a lot around here. So the instrument is properly represented. After I answer I usually get, "OH hey. That's cool." or "I always wanted to learn how to play the harmonica." Wanting to do the instrument justice helps me to keep trying to improve. ----------
I'm gonna be very brutally honest here and say something many harp players may not like, but the biggest single contributor to all of the dissing the harmonica player jokes are harmonica players themselves. Look at how many of them are too damned lazy to learn basic theory, know when to shut it up entirely as needed, and how many of them have really horrible time!!! Among real pro players, those numbers are actually quite low, but for non pro players, it's closer to more like 50-75% of the time. As long as players refuse to learn those three things, they deserve to get dissed, like it or not. In my lifetime of experience, much of the belittling comes from those who play other instruments and too often harmonica players who aren't pros often do ALL of those things that do nothing but confirm and perpetuate ALL of the negative stereotypes.
Unlike other harp players who aren't pros, I look at a harp player like I'm looking at any other instrument and if, for example, I hear you screwed up the time, you're gonna know about it and I won't let off the hook. That basically says I'm not afraid to hold ANY musician accountable for their screw ups, regardless of their instrument, and that certainly DOES include harmonica players.
The only REAL way harp players stopped getting dissed to stop whining about it, pick yourself up by the freaking bootstraps, and learn all of the basic stuff people who play other instruments HAVE to learn, which is knowing where every note is on ALL of your instruments, know at least some basic music theory (sight reading skills optional unless you're gonna be playing jazz or classical music or you intend to become a full time studio pro player, and those are the areas where you HAVE to have sight reading skills or you're gone), and get your time straightened out immediately. Tons of non pro harp players say they can't count the time in but do OK once the band comes in and they jump right in with no problem, but unfortunately, that still says one's time is god awful because if you had your time together, you'd have no problems calling it off and the cold, hard, brutal truth is that the band, ESPECIALLY the drummer and bass player are hiding your warts and making you look like a much better musician than you are at the present moment.
You have the right to complain, but as long as harp players keep doing all of those things that stigmatizes and stereotypes them, the cold, hard, brutal truth is that harp players are getting what they deserve to get. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Jul 02, 2015 11:37 AM
I totally agree with Bob on this, even though I myself am still guilty of one or two of the things he lists after over 25 years trying to play this instrument.
In my experience the harmonica attracts an awful lot of guys who are after an easy way into music. They learn the basics of the instrument, get to the point they can bend some notes and generally make some bluesy sounds that impresses their friends. But then they think they're good enough to start getting up and playing with other musicians who have spent many years learning to master their instruments properly. It's sadly only a very few who are prepared to dedicate the serious months, years and decades to learning, not just how to master the instrument, but how to play music and how to play it with others. There's nothing I hate more while watching a band play than when some guy comes out of the audience, pulls out a harmonica and proceeds to re-affirm every negative stereotype.
On top of this there are also a lot of singers and guitarists who also play a bit of harp but not usually very well. Hence the majority of musicians, as well as the general public, have never heard the harmonica played really well.
Let's face it, it may be small, but ours is an instrument like any other and deserves to be treated as such, first and foremost by those who would call themselves harp players.
I have heard similar attitudes about harp. "Do you play anything else?" I don't hold that against them since I understand where that attitude originates.
I agree with Adam and with Bob to a great extent. It is harp players who help create a negative perception of harp.
Non musicians often can't distinguish between harp well played and harp poorly played anyway, because most of the harp players they have heard in person are poor players or are comping chords while they play guitar, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young. The non musicians may have blown and sucked on a harp a few times as a kid, and assume it is not really a big deal; anyone can play one, etc. They don't know the difference.
Musicians on other instruments who have tried to play harp or do play it have some respect for the instrument, but not for most of the harp players they hear, for the reasons Bob mentioned. Too many harp players try to play with the pros when they should be playing with friends at a similar level of skill, trying to develop and practice new skills in a band setting. At a certain point you can learn by playing with musicians better than you, IF you are good enough that they will accept you.
Musicians who haven't attempted harp and haven't listened to great harp playing may automatically reject harp because they have heard so many poor performances.
I hear some supposed "harp players" at jams who think they are really good, and who often make me cringe. They are accepted as being harp players by general audiences, and assumed by average folks to play harp OK. If they approach me, I may offer suggestions. If I happen to have heard something good, I will encourage them to continue to build on that skill. I may mention recordings for them to check out. I may offer other suggestions if they seem open to hear them. The most common advice is to play minimally or not at all during most of the song, except for during their solos. Don't play through vocals, don't play when others are soloing.
YOU HAVE TO EARN YOUR OWN CRED AS A MUSICIAN.
The instrument itself won't (and shouldn't) grant automatic musician acceptance, WHATEVER instrument you play!
It may take a long time to gain acceptance in the local musical community, and that won't translate automatically to acceptance when you visit other areas. Musicians are understandably skeptical of harp players in particular.
There are many gigging musicians on other instruments who also play music out with reasonably good results, and have the same flaws with note choices and time as do harp players who are not yet playing at a completely pro level. I would say that you CAN play harp with bands (just like other instruments) before you have mastered everything about time and note choices, but you cannot let yourself get complacent. You have to continue working to improve. If you have flaws and receive feedback, accept it. Own your weak areas.
You don't have to abstain from playing because you haven't achieved a certain level, you just have to be aware of your areas that need improvement. This is why I try to catch performances by pros and why I attend some workshops. I want to keep aware of areas in my playing that need improvement so I can work on them. This is ongoing, since there is always something new to learn and improve. It is really important to continue to improve, to strive for taste in your playing (learn when to NOT play!), learn to make it about the song and the music, and not about the harp. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jul 02, 2015 2:17 PM
While occasionally I have come across the snickering morons who scoff at the harp, more often I get the opposite reactions: cool, soulful, I love harp, etc. A lot of people really dig it. An attractive woman once told me it was a really sensual instrument.
I was outside walking from the doctor's office back to my car, which I'd parked in the park, playing as I often do, today, and I heard this weird echo... it was harmonica, but it wasn't the notes I was playing. Someone shouted from the window, 'You are sounding good'. I think I interrupted someone else serenading someone with a harp.
(And sure enough, when I looked around I saw another harpist).
I have tended to gravitate toward those musicians and bands that are likely to think harmonica is a credible instrument with the right player . Surprisingly, I have made friends with a number of straight ahead jazz musicians back in the days when I did some work recording harmonica parts on various commercials and jingles. While I doubt they considered the harmonica the equal to piano and guitar in range or importance in a band's sound, it seemed these cats respected what I could do and liked the kind of blues licks I could bring to bear on the tunes. ---------- Ted Burke tburke4@san.rr.com
I also play guitar and a little mandolin, but the last few years my main interest/(talent?) has been with harmonica. The more I learn about this little instrument the more I get interested. When I first began I read a statement along the lines of: "the harmonica is one of the easiest instruments to begin to play and one of the hardest instruments to master". I truly believe that statement to be true.
Because of the first part of that statement, along with the price of the instrument, you run into a situation where almost everyone has picked up a harmonica at one point in their life and huffed & puffed and made "music"; so it must be easy; right? I think this along with the harmonica beginning its life as a toy and the general public not being exposed to very much great harmonica playing; all have a lot to do with the general attitude that its a joke instrument.
People whom take it seriously can prove otherwise and those who have heard a serious musician on the instrument know that it is one of the most expressive instruments there is.
In fifteen years of ongoing learning,practice and continual local gigging, I don't recall a single instance of being scoffed at for saying I play harmonica. Most folks who ask are often a little surprised by the response, and then,maybe, curious. I think it's just such a flat statement of fact, "I play the harmonica", that they hear 'legitimate'.
It's always been an ice-breaker for meeting women in music venues that are known as live music venues presenting all genres of music, blues music venues are a little different but in my experience always a positive as they already know a thing or two. As for telling people that your main instrument is harmonica it varies from curiosity to some folk not even sure what a harmonica is...for me personally it's always been a positive thing. So in reply to the OP..no it's always been a good thing. As for some of the other longer replies in this thread I think that might be a slightly different topic. ----------
"Those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do"
In contrast my friend Pam that went to school with me at Temple University was always amazed at my technique and improv skills. She plays in the Delaware Symphony. She plays violin and instrumental majors get some of the finest teachers to study with at Temple. Many with the Philadelphia Orchestra. ----------
All the good non-harmonica playing musicians that I've talked to do respect the harmonica and harmonica players because they know the harmonica is a class instrument. Among the general public. however, it's a little different. I think the reason that a portion of the public does not give the harmonica the respect it is due is because they have not been exposed to great harmonica playing. When some people think of harmonica, they think of Bob Dylan or Neil Young or a cowboy playing a lonesome melody around a campfire in a Western movie. I'm not knocking Bob Dylan or Neil Young (I'm a fan of both) but they are not great harp players. Before I heard Paul Butterfield and got into blues heavy at age 14, I though the harmonica was an easy instrument to play. Gosh, was I wrong. While it's true that anyone can pick up a harmonica and in a short time play something resembling a tune, you all on this forum know that the harmonica is a difficult instrument to play well and make real music on. It takes years of persistence, patience and practice. Fortunately, there are people like John Popper who are getting a lot of radio play and are changing the attitude toward the harmonica. I predict that if Jason Ricci gets enough airplay, he will be as well known as Popper if not more so. Then the image of the harmonica will change for the better among the general public.
Trummy Young was great! Very soulful and blues-influenced trombone player, and some of his stuff translates over pretty well to harp. Check out his playing on the Complete Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington Sessions.
Ditto On BBQ Bob! What Bob failed to mention that he and almost every single harmonica has been in those shoes at one time or another. No one is born great (well most of us aren't)! During your formative years you want to get out there and blow your horn and you suck at the beginning! You have to just keep after it and learn from your mistakes. I still have people ask me if I play any other instruments. It is just the perception the harmonica has that's all. Most people have no idea what real good harp playing is because they haven't heard it. Or if they have they weren't paying attention because they don't care! Now that's the truth that most choose to ignore! It shouldn't change how you feel about playing the harp.
"I hope you are right and jason gets more airplay, however as an old guy I despair at the general mediocre level of band music today."
Ah the old rose coloured glasses are on again I see. The general level of band music today is the same as it's always been. If anything the skill level is probably higher today than ever, across the board for all instruments. It's all too easy to have a distorted view of the past and think how wonderful everything was and how it was all sunshine and roses, but it's simply not true. Yes, there were some great bands and some great musicians around in the past. However there were also lots and lots of really, really bad ones. A fact which is often overlooked by the narrow vision of the nostalgic eye. Which tends to focus on the 'stars' of any given period it is assessing, whilst ignoring the also rans.
In today's world the access to learning and the tuition available for wannabe musicians is so rich and diverse that people are learning things in months that it took previous generations years and sometimes even decades to learn. Good quality gear is cheaper and more readily available than ever and so are recording capabilities. This in turn is producing some really seriously talented and musically sophisticated musicians. Alex Paclin, Jay Gaunt, RJ Harman, Nic Clark, Filip Jers and Konstantin Kolesnichenko are just a few examples in the harmonica world of this. If you look at guitar players (and not just focusing on blues) the list of highly talented young players is simply staggering.
As to your original question about negativity for harmonica. yes I have experienced it. I have also experienced the exact opposite. I don't let either one bother me. I play harmonica because I enjoy doing it and not to please other people. If you're bothered by people's negative comments then i suggest it's time to either grow a thicker skin or maybe give up playing in public. As you'll never escape the harmonica dislikers. They will always be near by whenever you play in 'public'.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jul 04, 2015 7:26 AM
Ha ha, my wife is always telling me I look back to the early '70's too much!!
However, I think bands such as King Crimson, The Nice, and early Fleetwood Mac and then Mahavishnu and Return to Forever would give the youngsters pause for thought:)
Right on, Kingley! As time goes on, the only music to survive time is the really outstanding or innovative music of any particular era. The bad music is filtered out and forgotten as time passes. So people tend to look back at that time period, only remember what was good, and overlook the bad. This is especially true of people who weren't alive during the original period.
As a school teacher, I often have students tell me that they wish they had been born during the 60's, 70's, 80's, etc because they really identify with that music. When they point out examples of artists, I always try to show them that they're pointing out a relatively small percentage of stellar musicianship and that they're overlooking tons of bad bad music.
As David Byrne said, "Same as it ever was." ---------- Marc Graci YouTube Channel
Last Edited by Mirco on Jul 04, 2015 11:50 AM
I think some of you guys have a chip on your shoulder. "Do you play anything else?" could be a simple enquiry, an innocent question, just making conversation.
Oh man . . . I just went to youtube and found that vid. Gut-busting funny , , , and the lyrics to "Holiday Love" are priceless ---------- Marr's Guitars
Over a decade's experience designing, building & playing Cigar Box Guitars
I'll tell you a huge truth here is that I had to work my goddamned ass off HARD to learn things many harp players are often too hard headed and/or lazy to learn, like time, basic music theory and none of this was stuff that you learn in a week or less.
To put it in a very brutally honest way, in order to become TRULY good at anything in life, you can not EVER do it by just going around in life basically nothing but half-assing everything because the results of that approach ALWAYS have a way of showing up and exposing you as a fraud at the worst possible moments.
I certainly have been in those shoes and made sure I was one heavily driven SOB to stop from being like the usual harp player tends to be.
Regardless of what instrument ANYONE plays, one of the very things that will keep any musician clearly listed as a absolutely crappy musician is whenever a musician is too goddamned lazy to get their time straight, and far too often, this tends to be especially true among harp players. In the pro area, regardless of the instrument you play, if your time sucks, you're a crappy musician and that automatically makes you an easily expendable part and you're far more of a musical liability than an asset and one more than one occasion I've fired musicians who screwed up the time because not only they make themselves look and sound like crap, they also make everyone else around them sound just as crappy or often far worse and too many harp players are too often dumb enough to think that this ain't their job to have good time, but cold, hard, brutal truth be told, it's EVERYONE'S job on that bandstand and not just the drummer's job.
If you go on guitar forums, keyboard forums, horn forums, or just about anything BUT harmonica forums, you will almost never see a posting questioning the need to learn time or music theory because for all of those instruments, the need is TOTALLY UNQUESTIONED, yet in just about every harmonica forum, there's nearly always going to be some sort of posting at least a few times a year questioning the need for learning these things and sometimes I almost feel the need to either burst out laughing or puke my guts out every time I see this question almost as often as when I hear people believing one of the all times dumbest musical old wives' tale that the drummer is the beat. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
