MindTheGap
592 posts
Mar 30, 2015
2:55 AM
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My wife was listening to an indie band. One live track had some atmospheric, low-end-wailing, non-rhythmic, reverb-drenched harp. What you call here the 'Biker Harp'? She thought it was great. I played her Little Walter's It's too late brother and while she could understand it was technically better, she didn't like it so much. She liked the gutsy wailing more. That's the sound of a harmonica, people like that sound.
You can argue all day about technical skill, but you can't tell people what to like. What kind of playing pleases your non-harmonica-playing crowd the best?
Is it really possible that the stuff you learn in the first years (like low-end bends and chords) gives 80% of the enjoyment, and all the years learning the rest gives only 20%?
You can make what you will of this. My own take home message from this episode is to concentrate on playing simple things well.
As this is MBH: This is no criticism of any style, person, pursuit of technical skills or otherwise. Or an incitement for others to do so :)
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 30, 2015 2:57 AM
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Littoral
1229 posts
Mar 30, 2015
3:11 AM
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There are no other rules.
Last Edited by Littoral on Mar 30, 2015 3:16 AM
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Barley Nectar
725 posts
Mar 30, 2015
6:42 AM
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I find that simple music with a good rhythm will please the masses more so that overly technical music. I personally, am not technically proficient, just tasteful. What I do is very well received by local musicians and listeners alike so I believe your observation has Merritt. Keep it simple...Goose
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Mar 30, 2015 4:51 PM
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Honkin On Bobo
1309 posts
Mar 30, 2015
7:01 AM
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Yep, I would agree with everything you wrote Gap. I think that at the highest end of mastery and technical proficiency, the musician is really playing for other musicians rather than a general auduence. Not saying that's good or bad, it just is what it is.
Probably true for other instruments as well.
The good news for those of us taking up the harp later on in life, is that you don't have to achieve the mastery of a Howard levy to be musical or entertaining, and with the way the harp is set up coupled with the structure of a 12 bar blues you can get there relatively quickly. Of course, post a video/audio of that effort on here, and you'll hear a million things you've done wrong. But a general audience will dig it.
Concentrate on playing simple things well is a great take.
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HarpNinja
4065 posts
Mar 30, 2015
8:17 AM
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Well, I think it comes down to the entire product. I can't hear the first song as I am not sure what it is based on your post, but the groove and lyrics - all harp aside - might be what is really more enjoyable.
Most people don't care about solos. They can't articulate well what they like, but it is basically groove and melody. However, there is also the mob mentality that can make someone like something.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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SteveTech
26 posts
Mar 30, 2015
8:23 AM
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A mentor of mine in the brass world, Alan Raph, would say "Keep the beat, never play in the rests, and the rest plays itself."
I used to hate it when he said that, but it was true.
Keep a solid beat. Fit what you play in the groove. Never play when you shouldn't.
When I first began bringing harp onto the bandstand with the band I lead, my harp skills were not great. They still have much room for improvement. However, I kept it very simple and didn't step on anyone's toes. The other musicians reacted with awe at what a few simple fills added to some of the songs. No lie, mouths open, "That's really good." It encouraged me (I knew I was faking it.) to pour time into learning the instrument for real.
Sadly, Gap is exactly correct. As with all art, only the educated few can truly appreciate skill. The masses generally honestly don't get it.
This explains much of the music on the radio.
Here's what it boils down to for me. I play music for me. I like well-performed music, and I'll continually strive to get better, even if I'm the only one listening...because it makes me happy.
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-Steve
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nacoran
8378 posts
Mar 30, 2015
12:16 PM
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My band's catchiest song I play the same riff the whole tune, and I only use two holes. I've had at least one beautiful woman come up to me after the show and say, 'Man, I love your sound'.
I've said this in a couple other threads. It's all about the hook.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
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LSC
714 posts
Mar 30, 2015
12:49 PM
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Last week I was having a great conversation with Matthew Robinson, the guy I've been backing for the past year and a half or so. I told him of running into James Cotton recently and recalling a conversation Cotton and I had decades ago when he heard me jamming with some of his guys in the dressing room. His words were,"Don't play like them (the players I was listening to). Play like you." Cotton smiled a big smile when he heard this and said, "That's right!".
Matt then told me of a conversation he had with Herb Ellis who gave him this advice, "Play it like you'd say it." in other words, think of your playing like having a conversation. If you think about it this is actually very hard to do. Nonetheless the thought resonated with me and reinforced something I've tried to do. Now I will try harder.
There are plenty of players who can kick my ass seven ways from Sunday technically, a few right here in town, but they can't do what I do because they aren't me.
Though I fully appreciate the skill and dedication it takes to obtain certain technical skills, I believe that one note played well, with the right tone, in the right place can convey more than all the speed merchants and over blow masters in the world. I don't want to impress people so much as wanting to move them.
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LSC
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Rontana
73 posts
Mar 30, 2015
1:13 PM
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Yup . . . the proof of the argument is that "Achy Breaky Heart" went platinum in the US. Two chords . . . with a melody less complex than a nursery rhyme.
I'm not sayin' that's bad. Folks like what they like and more power to 'em . . . or to use the cliche . . . "it's got a beat . . . you can dance to it."
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Marr's Guitars
Offering custom-built Cigar Box Guitars for the discriminating player of obscure musical unstruments
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Jim Rumbaugh
1111 posts
Mar 30, 2015
3:02 PM
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For what it's worth.
Mr "Achy Breaky Heart" got his start about a half mile down the street from where I live.
And that was BEFORE HarmoniCollege. :)
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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BronzeWailer
1634 posts
Mar 30, 2015
5:36 PM
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Yeah. We should play to the heart and the hips, not the head...
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Aussiesucker
1464 posts
Mar 30, 2015
5:38 PM
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Could not agree more with Mind The Gap. Keep it simple to fit the audience. If your audience are all harp players then it is the technical stuff they are listening for.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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slaphappy
85 posts
Mar 30, 2015
7:07 PM
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I don't think that's necessarily true Aussie but I know what you're talking about.. Branford Marsalis calls these listeners "the technique attackers".
I'm a harp player that can appreciate good technical ability but I'd always rather listen to somebody play simple and with feeling. If anything learning the harp has made me appreciate simple playing so much more and technical wanking so much less..
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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
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Aussiesucker
1465 posts
Mar 30, 2015
8:47 PM
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slaphappy, I do agree with you. There is a huge difference between a top player & an intermediate player in playing the most simple of tunes and even playing exact same notes.Feeling, tone, timing shows them apart. There is a tendency I feel for some players to take a simple piece and transpose it into a more complex technical piece of wanking thinking that they are improving it.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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Glass Harp Full
12 posts
Mar 30, 2015
11:16 PM
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I should preface this by saying that I'm very much a beginner, but I do find there's a lot of appeal in simplicity.
I've recently discovered that there doesn't seem to be a big difference between the exercises/examples in how to play books and some of the harp parts from well-known songs. For example, I'm currently working on "heart of Gold" by Neil Young and today looked up some tabs for "Mary Jane's Last Dance" by Tom Petty. The tabs for "Mary Jane" (which I realize could be wrong but they sound right to me) say the first line of the first harp part is -6; 6; -5; 5; -45. That's not that different than the exercises/examples from my books.
I should make it clear that I'm not criticising these guys, nor do I think I sound anywhere near as good. What they do fits the song really well.
I do find it more satisfying to work on an actual song though and it's encouraging for a beginner to know a few simple riffs can contribute to a song.
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jbone
1916 posts
Mar 31, 2015
3:54 AM
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Hm. Daltry. Bono, Chrissie Hynd. Neil Young. Several others who are not and never were technical players but pulled off some great harp moments.
Still, if we play whole evenings we do have to mix things up or get totally boring. This is why Jolene and I do more than I-IV-V stuff all night, we go into single chord and other styles, and we do songs I barely play any harp on. I play in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and a bit of 5th.
One of my favorite songs on this upcoming cd, it's a sort of funky hang-off-the-back groove that pretty much wrote itself. Jolene wrote one that is all trem drenched chords and simple harp work in 2nd that has no solo spot in it for me and does not need one.
The last cd had one like that, we got it out at a jam and I turned to the stage master and told him the key, tempo, and "Hold the I chord", and we smoked the place.
But we do try more challenging things because we ourselves want the challenge. Something we do hits people where they live, we know because they tell us.
You are liable to hear some old pop tune from the 40's or 50's next to a LW inspired thing next to a Hank, Cash, or Dylan piece. Maybe keep it simple but vary the songs enough is a key ingredient.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTwvU-EN1Q
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marine1896
40 posts
Mar 31, 2015
4:19 AM
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Harmonica like WE know is not really in the mainstream, so the average punter who walks into a bar and hears what we might consider pretty basic, rudimentary playing can have great impact on the casual listener. If you heard a guitar player at that same level it would probably sound pretty awful and because most people are familiar with guitar sounds/players they can differentiate pretty fast also as we all know the a harmonica in the right key for the song can get away with a lot to the casual listener!
Don't really know if the harmonica will ever really be a mainstream instrument. I actually thought that at one point John Popper may have changed that or Jason Ricci but I think most people of a certain age might JUST remember Larry Adler and I think for most folk that's just a bit too much like elevator music, me included I do understand and appreciate the hard work and practice that go's into learning the harmonica or any instrument but for me it's actually a deep love of 'blues' music and then harmonica in that genre the harmonica for me in other musical genres is pretty bland but sometimes works.
Mind you making the point of harmonica becoming very popular and more in the mainstream and with the prices of harmonics and their accessories maybe it being an acquired taste is a good thing!
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Goldbrick
934 posts
Mar 31, 2015
5:06 AM
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When you are getting paid- play what the audience digs
When you are playing for yourself or other musicians play what you like - if you are a technician or speed freak pull out the all the stops then.
About mainstream
My Dad says harmonica was thee instrument in the 40's- then accordian pushed the harp out- and then guitar came along
Harmonica is not a pretty instrument to play-- you see pretty girls at guitar or piano. That alone cuts half of your market for making it more popular
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Littoral
1230 posts
Mar 31, 2015
10:22 AM
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This might not go well...
My schedule got complicated and it looks like I won't have time to catch Jason Ricci this weekend. I've never seen him live and I was a little bummed about it -but then I wasn't. That confused me. How could it be? As much as I appreciate his contribution it isn't really for the music as much as it is for the technique. Going out would have been for the music. Wish I could but gonna miss it again.
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Glass Harp Full
14 posts
Mar 31, 2015
9:20 PM
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As Australia have just won the cricket World Cup, I think a cricket analogy is in order.
I remember Australian fast bowling great Glenn McGrath once saying that people would often ask him "What's the secret to successful fast bowling?", and they would always be disappointed when he said "Bowl a good line and length and aim for the top of off stump", because they were expecting the key to his success to be something really complicated, not this simple, straightforward advice.
He wasn't as fast or as entertaining as some other bowlers but he frequently did exactly what the team needed exactly when they needed it, and his record is outstanding.
A little OT maybe, but I think it relates to Littoral's point about contributing to music versus contributing to the technique of playing music. Some harp players may not be the most technically proficient or entertaining, but they're doing what the song needs them to do.
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indigo
83 posts
Mar 31, 2015
9:47 PM
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@Glass
Please don't mention the cricket....there are a few Kiwis on this forum ;-)
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Glass Harp Full
15 posts
Mar 31, 2015
10:45 PM
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@indigo
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
How about I don't mention the cricket World Cup and you don't mention the ruby league World Cup ; -)
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