So, if I am understanding this correctly, hohner contacts individuals, contracts them as endorsers, makes potentially tens of thousands from the artist, and in return the artist gets a "small discount" on harps. Is it just me, or does it seem like a very one-sided relationship, where hohner profits and the artist gets shafted, only to later get insulted further with a rudely/impersonal letter upon culling.
I would suspect that very few of the Hohner endorsers/endorsees create revenue of tens of thousands of euros for the company. However you're basic premise would appear for the most part to be correct. Personally though I don't think the artist gets shafted at all.
What you have to bear in mind is that all endorsers/endorsees sign a contract, so they go into it with open eyes. No one forces them to sign with Hohner or any other company for that matter. So whatever their motivation for signing, they do so with full knowledge of the deal. Unless of course they choose not to read the contract and just sign blindly. In which case it would make them a fool.
If the individual artist is a big enough name and is likely to generate a larger income for the company than someone else and could provide tangible evidence of that, then I dare say they could attempt to negotiate a contract that was more beneficial to them. Although I doubt that Hohner would bother and would simply move onto another endorser/endorsee. Unless of course the revenue created by that artist was likely to run into the hundreds of thousands or millions.
I don't how the other big harmonica companies run things, but I'd think it most likely that Seydel and Suzuki run their endorser/endorsee programs along similar lines to Hohner.
Last Edited by Kingley on Feb 21, 2015 8:05 AM
CarlA: You're making incorrect generalizations based on limited information. That's a bad position from which to be harshly judgmental. Have you actually seen and carefully vetted a Hohner endorser's contract? I don't believe you have. I have.
I guess it ultimately is more of a "prestige" value than a monetary benefit. The bottom-line is that there is very little to no money in music these days, especially the blues
I was an endorsee starting in 1983 while basing my band out of Ausitn if I remember correct. I think Paul Orta or Gary Primach told me about it. It was a very simple form to fill out. You were announced in the Easy Reeding magazine that all endorsees received and you would write them any news about your career. They featured different harp players and programs like the Rainbow one I pioneered. I still have the magazine laying around somewhere with the article on that. As far as $ there was none. It was a discount on harps and if remember right it wasn't a big enough discount to warrant me buying from hohner direct because I got a better deal from Ray Hennings Heart of Texas Music store. Things may be better now for endorsees but it was like I said earlier, just a thing to throw out in your publicity package. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
No, I have not. But based on the overwhelming response of previous hohner endorsers responses to this thread, they all came to my same conclusion. As far as you are concerned(and maybe a few others), you may have more reason to bow down to hohner, and I would suspect it to be most likely financial in nature. You are the artist I was specifically alluding to that is making hohner a considerable amount of money. Heck, when I first found your videos, I purchased some hohners based off of your video recommendations. I have quickly realized that there are better harps for my tastes/needs. The newbs will be persuaded as I previously was, and hohner knows this. If 10% of your online video audience purchases hohner because they want to sound like you, hohner makes money, and quite a bit of it.
Your YouTube channel has over 12 million total views. Let's say that you only influenced 1% of your viewing audience and persuaded them to go the hohner route. That would be roughly 120,000 people. At roughly $50 bucks a pop for a harp, that's roughly $6 million.
Now of course, I understand that some of the YouTube views are multiple, repeat viewers, etc.
So, let's say 0.25% of your YouTube viewers buy a harp from hohner because of your online influence, that still amounts to a staggering 1.5 million dollars. If hohner isn't compensating you financially, it may be time to ask them why not.
I haven't the faintest idea what you're insinuating, poitou. As far as I can tell, practicing what I preach--keeping my behavior in line with the ethical ideals I subscribe to and verbally endorse--is what I do.
For example, I'm a Hohner endorser--willingly and happily so. I've played their harps my whole life. I would play them even if they canceled my contract. So I'm not somebody who has been wooed into "endorsing" Hohner harps, for example, by the prospect of loot.
Having entered into an endorsement contact, I'm honoring the contract's terms by not speaking about them here.
It sounds as though you're trying to smear me as a hypocrite in some way.
I truly don't have any idea what you're talking about.
In answer to CarlA: Interesting argument you've made. Why don't I press Hohner for big bucks? Because I'm not greedy, and I'm not interested in trying to make that sort of case. But I'm glad I convinced you to buy good harps.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Feb 21, 2015 10:22 AM
This is an odd corporate decision. It really does not appear that the program was costing the company a lot of money.
People employed at corporate level go to meetings all day long. If the outcome of the meeting does not effect a change, then there was no point in the meeting. Good idea, bad idea(?), it's irrelevant. To justify their existence, and the proliferation of more meetings, there must be change. I see it all the time.
IMO, for this move to contribute to the bottom line, it would need to be accompanied by some other promotional event. Perhaps a price cut.
Hohner is going to need some really creative marketing and R&D talent to hold onto their market share with Seydel and Suzuki breathing down their necks. This odd move does not inspire confidence.
Last Edited by Thievin' Heathen on Feb 21, 2015 12:03 PM
This is the ad copy from the Hoodoo Blues Harps "Celebrating the song "Hoodoo Man Blues" by blues great Junior Wells, a long time Hohner endorser known for his blistering Chicago Blues style harp playing,"
Wasnt Junior Wells a Lee Oskar endorser at the end of his career?
Now, that's the creative marketing I was looking for. Maybe Junior Wells was not a "Lifetime" endorser, but he surely was a "Long Time" endorser. What else was he going to play in the 50's, 60's & 70's? Kratts?
Once an endorser, always an endorser. It's probably in the "Fine Print" of that contract.
Any money that Hohner USA saves by cutting cost will probably line their own pockets. I didn't expect the endorsement program to take a hit but I am not at all surprised. I'm bracing for my slap as an occasional end user.
Sometime after I first viewed @Gnarly's posted link to Hohner's artist page, they removed the Harmonicats. So it might be as simple as, "What have you done for us lately?".
I won't claim to understand the Hohner endorsee/endorser thing. However I do understand marketing. I suspect that Hohner believe they have successfully reached out to most of the wannabe players likely to be attracted to the brand by the players that have been cut, and therefore they are no longer needed. Simple as that. I suspect Hohner want to open up new markets. Aussiesucker is spot on with his couple of videos. New young players especially of the You Tube and Vimeo generation are more likely to be inspired to take up the uinstrument if they see fellow youngsters playing so well. The Far East market is also massive. It's mainly for tremolo harps, an area in which Hohner is merely one player amongst many. That's where the future harmonica sales boom will occur. Perhaps Hohner is looking to divert it's budget to break into this market. Having said all that I do feel the whole process might have been handled in a more sensitive and professional manner.
Last Edited by Gipsy on Feb 22, 2015 12:21 AM
A decade or so ago I went to a harmonica workshop held in my town by a teacher from interstate. Expecting to roll up and meet mainly males in the 40+ and more age bracket I was surprised to find teenage and 20 something young ladies made up 90% of the attendees (ca 20 in total).
At the time a popular Australian Group The Waifs had a young female harp player.It was quickly ascertained that this prominent player was the sole influence on the group wanting to learn harp.
It was explained to the group that the style of harp played by The Waifs was Country. Suddenly the girls interest edged back as it was obviously seen, by them, to be uncool to play Country.
The youth market can be fickle ie it is all or nothing. I agree with what Gipsy says re the Asian market & the popularity of the Tremolo. I understand The Harmonica Academy has a Chinese teaching site with over 70,000 enrolled. Many are very young.
No market can be neglected though.It is probable the blues harp market is a very mature market with limited growth potential. Preaching to the converted can be costly and a waste of time in the minds of marketing gurus.
I did everything required of me by Hohner contract, except the few things that I was unable to do, like putting the logo on my CD, because my calls weren't returned.
The few times I called or emailed to get harmonicas I also got no response. Luckily, I was able to get discounted harmonicas through another source.
In 5 years I cost Hohner zero dollars save for a few megabytes of storage on their website for my bio, that only took them 2 1/2 years to get up.
I get it. I'm not a John Popper or a Dennis Gruenling. As I have stated twice before my visibility in the harmonica community and Blues community was far more ascendant 5 years ago than it is now and I understand that cuts are being made and I am among them.
In the end short of the prestige of being associated with the leading manufacturer of our instrument I have lost nothing with the dissolution of my contract.
let me assure you,you are visible now!! everytime i play in CT someone mentions you.down here in philly your name comes up often .you are very well thought of in blues and harmonica circles,at least in the north east.
let me put it this way,i have known about you from experience and audience members.
another person talked about on this thread,i only heard of through here : to me,you're bigger than him.
maybe it is time to check out suzuki, haha
www.shakeylee.com ----------
Last Edited by shakeylee on Feb 23, 2015 9:10 AM
Howzit George, A friend of mine was endosed by both Hohner and Lee Oskar when Oskars were better harps. He was some sort of world champ. Anywaaaay, Hohner found out and slapped his hand and he dropped Oskars. This was probably when he discovered Joe Filisko. Oh, of interest to overblowers. He was overblowing LOs w/out modification. OH.. I remember his name now. Jim McGlaughlin. ---------- I'm out of the Biz for a while till I get over my burnout. You can try HarveyHarp or arzajac, or just look the page nacoran put together under Forum Search. .
