Tron60
1 post
Feb 15, 2015
6:57 PM
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Ok, so I have a problem with destroying reeds. I think it's because I'm playing too hard, and that stems from the fact that I use the same mic for vocals and harp playing, and since I sing pretty loudly I have to play the harp fairly loud to fit into the mix.
Is there a harp out there that is known for being particularly loud, or perhaps one that is good for standing up to harder playing? I blew out a Hohner Pro Harp recently that says as part of its description that its made for harder playing.
Any tips for me?
Much appreciated!!
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Harpaholic
627 posts
Feb 15, 2015
7:07 PM
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Don't play so hard until you can control your bends.
The Rocket seems louder to me, but that's not going to solve your problems.
Start using two mics.
Set up a vocal mic on a stand and one in your hand.
Problem solved!
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Feb 15, 2015 7:09 PM
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shakeylee
109 posts
Feb 15, 2015
7:07 PM
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you could back off the mic when you sing,then cup when you play.
and learn to play softer.
in the meantime,you could set your gaps high,if you do not overblow,which you probably don't ,considering the question.
also,delta frost harps handle abuse more so than some.
but above all,you should try to learn to play with some breath control.
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arzajac
1596 posts
Feb 15, 2015
7:29 PM
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Hi Tron.
Pro Harp reeds are the same as Big River reeds, so don't give much credit to how the harp is marketed...
That being said, stainless reeds are said to last longer.
But before you go looking for a quick fix, playing too hard is a bad habit that's hard to break. You're gonna blow out any harp you play (even stainless steel!), regardless of make or model unless you deal with the underlying cause.
If you really want to deal with the problem once and for all, I suggest you find a reputable harmonica teacher to work with to tackle this problem. Best would be to find a teacher who plays harp and sings.
This is going to take time and effort to fix. The alternative is spending a lifetime blowing out harps faster than you can replace them.
And with prices going up, spending a few bucks on some lessons may be a worthwhile investment.
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Last Edited by arzajac on Feb 15, 2015 7:31 PM
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Tron60
2 posts
Feb 15, 2015
8:19 PM
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Thanks for the replies!
I don't think the problem is related to bending. I learned to bend by playing softer, so my bends have yet to cause a reed blow out.
I like the idea of using 2 mics, but man my mixer is getting full now. A volume pedal or some sort of stomp box that increases volume might work too.
I think the only solution is for me to play softer and find a way to get properly amplified.
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dougharps
856 posts
Feb 15, 2015
8:30 PM
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Your statement confused me. It seems to me that cupping the mic to play harp is often too loud compared to singing. I sing off mic to avoid proximity effect, then cut my volume control and cup, taking advantage of the proximity effect to smooth out the harp. If I left it turned up to the level I use for singing it would be too loud.
When I use the same mic for singing and playing harp (without a volume control) I sing closer to the mic, but not on it, and have to be very careful not to play fully cupped directly into the mic, or it would be far too loud.
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Doug S.
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Harpaholic
628 posts
Feb 15, 2015
9:30 PM
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The problem is related to bending! Your bending notes to the floor or else your bending notes that shouldn't be bent more than a half step like the 5 draw.
What reeds are you blowing out the most? 4 draw?, 5 draw?
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Feb 15, 2015 9:31 PM
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jbone
1885 posts
Feb 15, 2015
9:59 PM
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I killed a lot of reeds on a lot of brands for many years. Take it from me, you will want to get some breathing or voice lessons going asap to bring your air column into control. It's never about force, always focus when you address reeds. Know how tiny and thin they are? Hard draws WILL kill reeds.
I personally like Suzuki Manji harps, others have different ideas and preferences. But foremost is, find your musical center ie air column, and learn to focus. A huge error I made over and over was trying to play with a loud band and just sucking reeds to death in a short time. I could not hear my own self and thought I just needed more volume "at the harp". What I needed was to let the p.a. do the work, or the amp. Or find guys who don't have to blast the paint off the walls.
For me my hearing is very valuable. Working with SRV wannabes in the 90's lost me some mid range and eventually I learned that if I could not get lower volume, work with guys who really valued dynamics and tone, I needed to find other partners. In addition to killing harp reeds and hearing I damaged my vocal cords and that resulted in SIX MONTHS off of singing. After about 20 years' singing every chance I got, you would not believe how hard that was on me. I was so grateful to get back to it and it's the best yet these days.
I sort of evolved into a duo partner, and we play as a duo a lot. 5w Champs, small Fender p.a., and we play smaller venues mostly. It's working well for me and us.
One place I had to learn dynamics on harp was out busking acoustically. You simply can NOT draw those folks from across the street to come over by sucking harder. I had to let things be as they were and if people saw us and heard some singing and guitar and a bit of harp, great, whoever really wanted to could come over or stop by.
Bottom line, I still wear out a reed here and there, but considering I once blew out FOUR of my only SEVEN sp20's at ONE gig on ONE night, I am vastly improved. So is my harp of choice.
Whatever brand harp you like, learn to treat it with the respect it deserves. Or buy a lot of harps as you keep killing reeds. There is NO BULLET PROOF HARP.
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SuperBee
2407 posts
Feb 15, 2015
10:39 PM
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i cant argue against the theme of advice here. but i'm trying to figure the issue. you sing loud, so you have to play loud. what would happen if you sang back off the mic? are you cupping the mic with the harp or playing in open air?
playing the harp too hard with a band is a common issue. band plays loud and your amp is loud so you cant even tell how hard you're playing.
bottom line, i dont think there are any harps that can take it. lee oskars have a reputation as hard wearing, some say stainless steel is longer lasting but i dont know that i believe it. i think it stays in tune well but i think its just as susceptible to catastrophe if played hard.
there is one customiser i know of who makes a harp which he claims delivers "incredible" punch and volume (i may be misquoting but thats the gist)...at over $400 per harp though, you wouldn't want to break them too often.
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Harpaholic
629 posts
Feb 15, 2015
10:51 PM
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My take on is he sings loud so the mic volume is set low, when he uses the harp with the same mic set at the same volume the harp isn't loud enough?
I may be wrong?
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nacoran
8273 posts
Feb 15, 2015
11:23 PM
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I have to use a gain pedal. In my case I play harp at fairly normal levels, but I've got a quiet voice. It gets the job done. Any sort of setup like that where you can control the volume separately would seem to let you back off on the harp volume.
As for taking a beating, Lee Oskars are troopers and they sell replacement reed plates for about half the cost of the regular harp. You might also want to learn to replace reeds.
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Nate
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jiceblues
394 posts
Feb 16, 2015
4:26 AM
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Lee Oskar's & Hohner MS last a long time for me .But i prefer SP20's .When i play in front of my SM58 direct in the PA , i have 2 distances : one for singin' (closer) and one for harp .
And i don't play with a loud band , i tend to play acoustically , with one or two guys .
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jbone
1886 posts
Feb 16, 2015
5:39 AM
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I'm like jiceblues. I "eat the mic" to sing usually and if I use the same mic to play harp through I back off some and use some hand effects as well.
Greg Heuman does some good looking mods to sm57 and sm58 where he can put a bulletizer on and shorten the mic barrel, and also install a volume control. Might be an option if you can stop replacing harps often! But the volume control could conceivably help with the overall dilemma.
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Diggsblues
1651 posts
Feb 16, 2015
6:19 AM
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@Tron post an example of your playing you'll get better advice.
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Raven
9 posts
Feb 16, 2015
7:17 AM
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I'm with jbone. Blew out 3 G-harps, SP20 and LO before switching over to Manjis. Fact is Popper blows out 300 harps a year...so even the pro's face the same challenge.
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jiceblues
396 posts
Feb 16, 2015
10:17 AM
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If you blow and suck like crazy , you blow harps .
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WinslowYerxa
790 posts
Feb 16, 2015
10:43 AM
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Greg Heumann also makes an inline volume control. If you're using house mics, you just pop the volume control between the mic and the cable, and adjust as needed.
Alternately, you could have the mixing board volume set so that you can back off the mic when singing (loud) and get closer when you play harp.
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Thievin' Heathen
491 posts
Feb 16, 2015
4:21 PM
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Lee Oskar.
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