I received an email from Hohner today. Apparently they have been reading/hearing about the Harmonica Community’s concerns about the changes made in the Special 20. Here is their response. Well presented I think.
Dave Barrett gave me the heads up on the *Reedology page. After I read the Sp20 update, I went on to see a section under categories that deals with technical aspects such as gapping and reed profiling that is very comprehensive and would help anyone wishing to better understand how to gap and profile reeds. Pete
I know you all have discussed this ad nauseam ,but I am not a hohner user,unless it is the only/best alternative, so bear with this question . Is there a difference betwixt sp20 and rocket ? Thanks.
I HAVE searched but I still don't get it .
I saw some sp20's with blue moon combs this morning ,on FB,that looked great,so this is as good a thread as any! ----------
The reed plates are identical. The covers on the Rocket are vented and open, but same shape. The Rocket comb has wider chambers, is rounded, and grey ---------- Mike My Website My Harmonica Effects Blog
Kevin, Click on the page florida-trader has highlighted for the Sp20 story, Hohner's Take (Reedology), look to the right under categories and click "repair and technical" for the info you seek.
What isn't mentioned in the Reedology article is whether the gapping of the reeds has changed. The article says that "the feel is the same," but this is vague language. The complaint I've heard from some players is that the reeds respond very differently, as if the gapping had been changed. Other report that no, the new harps they have respond just like the old ones.
It would be very helpful to players if Hohner were to address this question directly. =========== Winslow
If they wanted to make changes to the special 20 they could have smoothed out the rough edges Im not sure if that is the case since I haven't seen it yet but it would be a welcome change
Based on my experience with harps so far, I would expect that the variation in gapping from harp to harp, is bigger than the variation from one model to the next. Hohner could tell you (if they wanted to) if there was an intended processing difference between the SP20 and the Rocket reed plates.
To determine experimentally if there was an actual difference you would have to take several SP20's and several Rockets, measure the gaps and take the average and standard deviation to see if there was a difference (This assumes an agreement could be reached on a meaningful measurement of gap). Comparing one of each on something this variable will only tell you about the two specific harps compared, and nothing can be inferred about any difference between the two types of harps.
I often wonder how much the luck of the draw in what you happen to get when you buy a brand X harp to try contributes to the phenomenon of one player saying Brand X sucks and brand Y rules, when another player says the opposite.
"If they wanted to make changes to the special 20 they could have smoothed out the rough edges Im not sure if that is the case since I haven't seen it yet but it would be a welcome change "
my take is that the Rocket is the 'improved' special 20, and they don't actually want to mess with the 'classic sp20 at all. in much the same way as the crossover relates to the marine band, but a little more 'progressive'
i have a Rocket on my bench atm. Haven't had a chance to check it out yet but i'm looking forward to it. needs a new reed but other than that its sure to be as it was when it left the factory. i like the look of them at least.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 12, 2015 9:25 PM
"Neither of these minor alterations to the cover and reed plates affect the sound of the Special 20 in any way. Nor has the feel changed. The Special 20 is HOHNER’s most popular 10-hole harmonica. Why mess with success?"
So, essentially the same harp, just a lot more expensive! I never new being "progressive" would be such a costly endeavor?!?
Last Edited by CarlA on Feb 13, 2015 5:09 AM
Hi guys, first off, thanks to Popculture Chameleon and Indigo for linking/embedding the video I made comparing these two harps!
It's interesting to read the "official" Hohner response, which is largely the same as the conclusions I came to in my own video. In general, I think the concern about functional issues due to the change is a moot point (other than the use of thinner screws, which, IMO, might cause some issues). However, I do have some additional thoughts on the whole "progressive" marketing ploy (which it surely is).
First of all, the name, "Progressive". The term stems from the root "Progress", which implies radical forward change. However, two out of three of the "Progressive" harmonicas were released back in the 70's, before I was alive (born 1979). I fail to see how changing the stamp on the covers of these older models is, in any way, progressive. The Rocket, on the other hand, CAN be thought of as "Progressive". But so can the Crossover, MB Deluxe, and Thunderbird.
Second, to the division between "Marine Band" and "Progressive". According to the official Hohner response linked to in the OP, they believe that the Special 20, Rocket, and Golden Melody all share something that make them different from any Marine Band. Clearly, the only thing that divides them is that the Progressives all have plastic combs. It's fairly well decided that comb material has at most an incredibly minimal effect on tone (but that comb construction DOES). On the other hand, I think most players would agree that side vents in the covers have a much larger impact on tone. Well, why is the Rocket "progressive", when it has the same side vents as a Marine Band? Surely it sounds MUCH more like a Marine Band than a Special 20 or Golden Melody? No? And why does a Bamboo comb not separate the Crossover from the MB, when a plastic comb separates the Rocket? Totally inconsistent.
Finally, the Golden Melody and the Special 20 have much less in common with each other than do the Special 20 and the Marine Band. I agree that the non-sidevented covers of the Special 20 make it different than a Marine Band, but the full length covers and the equal temperament of the Golden Melody make it much more different.
What I would have liked to have seen are FOUR "families" of Hohner diatonics:
1) The Marine Bands, which would include the MB Classic, the MB Deluxe, the Crossover, the Thunderbird, AND the new Rocket.
2) The Special 20's, which would ideally have included a Special 20 "Deluxe" in addition to the regular Special 20. The deluxe would have some of the features of other deluxes (two coverplate screws, slightly different temperament tuning, and better QC).
3) The Golden Melodies, which would also have a GM 'classic" and a GM "Deluxe".
4) The MS Series.
IMO, spending time and money on a "rebranding" that was purely cosmetic was a waste that could have been spent on more substantive changes. ----------
The Rocket is clearly a progression of the sp20. i mended one last night and of course i had to play it to make sure it was 'fixed'. i'd certainly be very happy to take a chance based on this one. a great sounding and playing harp imho. i really couldn't fault it. i don't know what they sell for...better look it up
They run about $65 in the states. I have a new in box G for sale for $50. I ordered it on accident and already have one. ---------- Mike My Website My Harmonica Effects Blog
Here's a link to the reedology article. Apart from the technical bit about how to adjust your reeds, it contains an anecdote about a customer who blows/draws to hard and chokes his harmonica, and doesn't want to change his technique. The technician fixes it by increasing his gaps and everyone is happy.
Might this mean that their common experience is that their customers don't always play with the finesse they would like, and so they are helping by using bigger gaps more generally? That seems like a reasonable thing for them to do to keep the bulk of their customers happy.
I did a lot of comparison shopping recently (looked at the well-known sellers, Ebay, Amazon, and everywhere else). Three packs offered the best deal, and the price on Rockets came to $46 per harp (that was for a G A and C on Ebay). SP 20s were about $35 each for the same deal, MB came in at about $27 each. Got the Rockets and am extremely pleased.
Crossovers were (if I remember right) about $58 each. Weren't any sellers offering discounts on multiples.
That's not accounting for the occasional sale. Pretty frequently I've seen SP 20s a little lower.
(edited to add: those prices included shipping. New harps in sealed boxes) ---------- Marr's Guitars
Offering custom-built Cigar Box Guitars for the discriminating player of obscure musical unstruments
Last Edited by Rontana on Feb 14, 2015 2:04 PM
To me, the comments / complaints about the gaps being too wide makes the point that if you are serious about playing the harmoncia you ought to be able to make simple adjustments to fit your style of play. Some people play hard. Some people play soft. Their harps should be set up differently. It is generally agreed that the quality of harps today from the major manufacturers is very good. There is no reason why 100% of the OOTB harps - and we are talking about the good harps, not cheap Chinese junk imitation harmonica toys that should not even be a part of the conversation - cannot be made into very acceptable harps. The internet is full of information about how to adjust the gaps on your harp. Adam Gussow plays OOTB Marine Bands and the only thing he does is adjust the gaps. Jason Ricci has posted videos Over-Blowing and Over-Drawing on OOTB Manjis and all he has done to them is adjust the gaps. It is unrealistic to expect a manufacturer - any manufacturer - to make a "One Size Fits All" harp. They have to shoot for a lowest common denominator set-up that will meet the needs of the "average" player - whatever that is. Presumably, most of the people who frequent this forum are more knowledgeable than and more skilled than average players. Don't be afraid to take the covers off your harp and adjust the gaps. Reeds are delicate but they are not butterfly wings. They are little springs that can be moved around a bit without fear of having them snap in two if you look at them crosseyed. Take the plunge! You'll be glad you did. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Feb 15, 2015 5:39 PM
