Popculture Chameleon
12 posts
Jan 29, 2015
10:56 AM
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This question says it all for me. I'm a beginner through and through but I also want every advantage a harmonica player can get if it can be afforded- Should a beginner harp player start looking into custom harps to improve his performance. I currently play on Hohner Rockets and try to practice for an hour or two a day. The more I hear about custom harmonicas the more I want to learn about them and their pros and cons. any suggestions or advice on when to start looking into this
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Steve Harvell
190 posts
Jan 29, 2015
11:11 AM
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I think the "Hohner" Rockets are AWESOME, for a beginner they would be one of my first to recommend to a beginner player. The other forum members are better versed in the custom harps than I, I mainly buy custom combs for my harps and do a little gapping only... The main thing is to wood shed a lot, that is the best advise ever :)
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KingoBad
1596 posts
Jan 29, 2015
11:23 AM
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Check out the forum search. You will find tons of information.
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Danny
Last Edited by KingoBad on Jan 29, 2015 11:24 AM
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timeistight
1684 posts
Jan 29, 2015
11:34 AM
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If you can afford custom harps, why not? But don't expect a custom harp to "improve your performance". You have to do that.
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This should probably go without saying: If you’re not learning everything you can, you’re probably not that interested in it.
Kid Andersen
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Pistolcat
756 posts
Jan 29, 2015
11:49 AM
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If I were you I'd wait. It won't do you any good yet. A good OOTB harp will. Rockets, sp20, crossovers and marine bands deluxe are preferable in the Horner sortiment, imho.
On the other hand. Custom harps are cool...
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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barbequebob
2827 posts
Jan 29, 2015
11:55 AM
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I personally think giving a beginner a custom harp is a HORRIBLE idea. Why? One of the first things beginners NEVER learn is breath control and beginners, ESPECIALLY if they're self taught are going to play FAR TOO HARD and will blow them out even faster than one OOTB and since they're not gonna have a real clue about their own playing, they're just not ready and it's not like buying a better OOTB harp because a custom is specifically tailored to a particular players own style and needs and, truth be told, beginners aren't gonna have a clue. I'd wait several years and further refine your playing technique FIRST before going on to a custom.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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A440
325 posts
Jan 29, 2015
12:10 PM
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Learn on the Rocket, its a fine instrument. You'll know when you're ready for custom, when you don't need to ask the question.
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slaphappy
68 posts
Jan 29, 2015
12:11 PM
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agree with Bob. spend your money on lessons and education and figure out what kind of player you are.. then get custom harps and go for world domination.
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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
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arzajac
1576 posts
Jan 29, 2015
12:29 PM
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I say yes for three reasons:
One - No matter how much you spend on an out-of-the-box harp, the fact they are mass-produced means the one you get may not be preperly set up. A beginner frequently asks "is it me or is it the harp?" If you have a custom harp to refer to, you have your answer. A custom harp will be set up to play all the semitone bends that are difficult (and sometimes impossible) to hit on a stock harp. The big difference is the reed work. It takes time and effort to set up a harp to play well.
Two - Although a custom harp is not limited to playing softly, it allows you to develop fine motor control. It's a lot easier to learn fine motor control if you don't always have to play with brute force.
Three - You will enjoy playing the instrument more. There is nothing like a well-playing harp. And the more you enjoy playing, the more you will tend to practice. I know that there is concensus among music teachers (of any instrument) that if a student obtains the best instrument they can afford, they are giving themselves the best chance at success.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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arzajac
1577 posts
Jan 29, 2015
1:03 PM
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Sorry, Bob, I didn't see your post as I was typing. I didn't mean to polarize the conversation.
I have a subset of customers (experienced players) who blow out reeds far more often than the typical beginner. It doesn't seem to be that big of an issue for me. Maybe beginners take better care of a custom harp because it's more expensive? And most customs come with a warranty that covers reed replacement.
As for tailoring the instrument, no, a beginner doesn't know what they want. But an instrument with a wide dynamic range has value. Maybe a year or two later, they will develop strong preferences but that doesn't lessen the importance of starting off on a good instrument.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jan 29, 2015 1:03 PM
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timeistight
1685 posts
Jan 29, 2015
1:09 PM
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BBQBob raises a good point: if you're blowing out OOTB harps you'll probably blow out your custom harps, too. I hadn't considered that; I've never actually blown out a harp, even when I was starting out.
Andrew also makes a good point: if you get a harp from a top customizer and you can't make it do something you'll know it's you. You can spend your time practicing instead of poking at reeds.
I think it's important to stress the the difference between a good OOTB harp and a custom is subtle. Of course they're better, but they aren't going to make you a better player. A beginner may not even notice any difference at all.
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This should probably go without saying:
If you’re not learning everything you can, you’re probably not that interested in it.
Kid Andersen
Last Edited by timeistight on Jan 29, 2015 1:11 PM
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nacoran
8235 posts
Jan 29, 2015
1:10 PM
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Make sure you are past the blowing out the reeds stage first. Custom harps are more airtight so there is more pressure put on the reeds with the same amount of breath, so it's easier to break a reed. If you've got good control over your airflow and you can afford it, go for it; there is definitely a quality difference. The only harp I can get overblows on was set up to overblow, (although plenty of guys can get overblows on OOTB harps.)
My general advice for harp purchases is this-
1) Buy at least one good harp and a couple cheap ones to goof around on and take apart.
2) Spread out and make sure you have a variety of keys.
3) Figure out what model you like best.
4) Get great harps.
Progress through those steps as fast as your budget will allow but don't spend so much that you have to sing for your supper (unless you are sure will pay you enough to cover your dinner!)
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Nate
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walterharp
1585 posts
Jan 29, 2015
1:19 PM
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I would say no... you could get 3 or 4 mid price harps for that in various keys...
cheaper customs are barely better than upper shelf out of the box
and the 3 keys (e.g. G, C, F) would give you a great range of types of harp to blow.. if you blow out reeds then buy something that has replaceable reeds.
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barbequebob
2828 posts
Jan 29, 2015
1:36 PM
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For every harp where a player has actual REAL problems because of the instrument, the truth is that 100 times more often the REAL problem is the technique of the person playing it and that's generally the one thing FEW harp players are willing to admit to because, frankly, it's a hundred times easier to blame the instrument than it is to own up to the real problem being one's playing technique (and for some, it's their ego, or "it just ain't macho").
Whenever you're buying a custom harp, it is NOT a throw away instrument like the way most people think of an OOTB instrument and a good custom is much like if you owned a very expensive (or even inexpensive one for that matter) guitar, keyboard, horn, drum kit and with a guitar, if a string breaks, you'e not gonna throw out a guitar just because a string broke, and with a custom, you send the harp back to the customizer for a new reed and with everything already adjusted to your playing style and needs, it's just the single reed that needs the work.
The vast majority of beginning harp players, ESPECIALLY if they're teaching themselves how to play, 98% of the time are gonna play way too hard (and often they have absolutely no clue as to just how hard they're really playing) and the breath force often gets easily 5 times harder when they're trying to teach themselves how to bend and later overblow, which is THE WRONG THING to do and they can count on blowing them out left and right if they do this and just for that reason alone, I don't recommend a beginning using a custom until they're a couple of years down the road and their technique has improved to the point where they're not blowing them out frequently. A good custom is ALWAYS gonna be hyper sensitive to how hard you play because with things like a much more perfectly flat comb, proper gapping for a particular playing style, and tighter reed slot tolerances, all of which keeps a considerably GREATER amount of within the instrument, playing really hard all the time becomes completely unnecessary, but too often, the average player really isn't gonna be clued in on that and the use of very hard breath force to force things to happen, which I refer to as the D.A.M. method (meaning dumb ass macho) that a beginning player 98% of the time is gonna be clearly guilty of doesn't make sense for a beginner to use a custom just yet. It's better, just from an economic standpoint alone, to blow out a harp that costs $10-50 than it is to blow out a custom, which is gonna cost anywhere from $150+++++ per harmonica.
Based on the newer stock of Hohners, LO's, Seydels and Suzukis, the differences may seem subtle to some, but for some others, quite radically different, and it's even more radically different if you were used to playing Hohners in their crappy quality period of 1981-1995 and then playing a custom harp, and trust me, when I tried one for the first time when Jerry Portnoy had me play one of the earliest Filisko customs in 1994, it was like having been used to driving a crappy little Chevy Vega and then driving a top of the line Rolls Royce or an Aston Martin, just absolutely no comparison at all. He told me he had to really get used to playing something that was almost too responsive for him at the time.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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dougharps
831 posts
Jan 29, 2015
2:24 PM
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I lean toward Bob's position, though I think it is good not to wait TOO long before trying a custom, or maybe better than a custom at this point, a well set up "optimized" harp.
At least learn to breathe through your harps instead of blowing and sucking, and learn basic bending before spending the money on a custom.
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Doug S.
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JustFuya
712 posts
Jan 29, 2015
2:38 PM
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I can't talk percentages or majorities but I think a custom harp is invaluable as a reference if not as an exclusive practice instrument for beginners. On the other hand, I think recommending a custom harp for a beginner would be a cruel joke on customisers who guarantee their work. Hopefully they have a vetting process.
Better would be a low cost Skype session that offers nothing more than a quick assessment of both the instrument and player with recommendations for each.
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Jim Rumbaugh
1087 posts
Jan 29, 2015
2:40 PM
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I'll agree with both opinions.
If you have lots of money. spend it, get it, then you'll know.
But don't say we didn't warn you.
I've played for 14 years, and still don't have the money for a custom harp, and I'm not sure I want one.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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LSC
702 posts
Jan 29, 2015
3:43 PM
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Would you buy a Ferrari before you got your drivers license?
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LSC
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jbone
1872 posts
Jan 29, 2015
6:17 PM
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I blew out a lot of reeds over my first 20 years' playing. Granted I was a hard hard player, trying to create more volume than a harp could actually give on stages with volume monsters for partners. I blamed the harmonicas I was buying and began a long search for the ideal instrument. I even had a foray into wax sealing Marine Bands for a while, and I found out how true it is that a tighter harp will allow reeds to be killed much more quickly if one has no feel for true dynamics and no breath control and focus.
I may well have never quit using MB's if I had learned the right way to play first, but no regrets, I do use a MB or two these days and also several other brands and models as well, including a couple of medium level customs.
I believe you must get a feel for the basic instrument first. After all very few of us got a Lambo as a first car, right? More like a VW bug in my case! But gradually we can come to appreciate a finer ride as we become more proficient at driving.
There are so many great ootb harps to choose from in this age.
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Thievin' Heathen
480 posts
Jan 29, 2015
7:39 PM
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Having a custom harp as a benchmark of a well set up harp would be nice. My problem has always been that there are amps, pedals, mics, and box sets of high end harps all on my wish list. The custom harp has thus far escaped my acquisition.
I can't imagine that you would regret buying a custom harp or fail to benefit from the advantages of owning a top of the line instrument. Plus it would help you better appreciate the really good OOTB harps we all get from time to time.
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schaef
42 posts
Jan 29, 2015
8:15 PM
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Get a hoodoo sp 20 from chromaticblues, for the price of a ootb rocket you get a much better harp.
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Harmlessonica
49 posts
Jan 30, 2015
3:22 AM
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I'd say if you're playing that long each day, you're enjoying the Rockets and should continue until you feel you're outgrowing them.
That said, I'd have loved to have a custom harmonica when I first started to learn. I was under the impression that Hohner's 'hand-made' harmonica policy was synonymous with 'tailor-made' as in the level of care and attention given to each one produced. I suppose I was a little naive in that regard.
Just remember that whatever harmonica you buy next, and however well it plays, you'll be wanting another within a month. I guarantee it. :)
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JInx
963 posts
Jan 30, 2015
12:08 PM
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Of course a custom (optimally set up) harmonica is a good thing for beginners. It's like learning to sing, it's much easier if you have someone show you proper technique. The goal is to remove stress and strain from life, not to suffer through it.
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garry
557 posts
Jan 30, 2015
6:13 PM
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It sounds like a waste of money at your current stage. If you've got spare cash, pick up a few different brands in the keys you commonly use. You'll not only learn which ones you like, but you'll develop your technique as you adapt to the differences.
I spent a lot of time when I was new trying to find harps that would make it easier to bend notes, which I was having trouble with. Of course, the problem was me, not the harps, and once I learned to bend it made no difference which harp I used.
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